It is a bit complicated. This is a tape of Trump and his lawyer Cohen talking about paying off a mistress. The conversation and payout may have been a jailing offense if it turns out to be a violation of campaign finance law. Also the tape clearly indicates that Trump lied in earlier statements about this situation.
There is an added twist, as pointed out by Rachel Maddow. It looks like these tapes were deemed as privileged information by the court’s special master, but Trump’s lawers waved that privilege. This appears to matter with respect do teals Cohen may or may not be making with prosecutors.
This is how that works. Cohen has the tapes. The special master looking at the evidence in the Cohen case determine that this is privileged (client-attorney) and cant’ be handed over to prosecutors. Cohen is now in the situation where he has an ace up his sleeve. He could pass the tape on to the prosecutors in return for something. But, since the tape has been released (or at least a transcript of it), he can no longer do that. Trump has outsmarted Cohen. Try not to think about that too hard.
Anyway, watch Maddow’s reporting and analysis including comments by Emily Jane Fox:
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There is no campaign finance violation. To go after John Edwards, the Justice Department had to stretch and argue that it was a violation because of Edwards’s reputation as a family man. And still the case was a mistrial.
I’m not sure that this is a smart move by Trump’s lawyers. This tape clearly shows that Trump attempted to conceal a crime (depsite MikeN’s assertion, this appears prima facie to be campaign finance violation) and if Cohen admits that other “privileged” tapes contain evidence of criminal activity it would appear that exceptions aply to the privilege:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-crime-fraud-exception-the-attorney-client-privilege.html
In fact, given the nature of this particular tape I’m a little surprised that the special master didn’t think that it sailed close enough to covering crime that it should be released to the Mueller investigation. And didn’t Trump at one point say that Cohen was not his lawyer anymore? I’d have asked for clarification about when Cohen appearently ceased to be his lawyer, for obvious reasons…
Leaving aside the Edwards example, if they are paying with Trump’s own money, it’s not a campaign finance violation is it?
Remember this is a different payoff than what’s been talked about before.
Um, yes:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/may/03/130000-stormy-daniels-payoff-was-it-campaign-expen/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/02/trump-repaying-the-stormy-daniels-money-doesnt-mean-there-were-no-campaign-finance-violations/?utm_term=.d2da2e44a617
More to come, so that I don’t end up in the moderation queue…
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-cohen-tapes-recording-karen-mcdougal-playboy-model-affair-a8457901.html
https://www.msnbc.com/david-gura/watch/rep-ted-lieu-payment-to-karen-mcdougal-looks-like-a-violation-of-campaign-finance-laws-1282594883586
Read them in order, and listen to Ted Lieu’s analysis. He’s a former prosecutor, not an apologist for the corrupt GOP as are you, so I think that his opinion has far more value than yours…
Giuliani is also a former prosecutor. Luckily we don’t have to rely on political statements disguised as legal analysis. We can look at the example I already gave of real prosecutors acting as prosecutors trying to prosecute a similar case. Edwards was not found guilty, and government eventually abandoned the case. This was with extra argument that the payments were campaign related as Edwards had the image of a family man.
That aside, I think Ted Lieu didn’t notice the difference with the new tape. Note how he says $2700 is OK.
MikeN: “Giuliani is also a former prosecutor.”
Working for Trump as part of his legal team, so by definition he will defend his client regardless of whether or not a crime has been committed.
Or is it possible you don’t understand how our legal system work? Very possible, is my guess, given your lack of understanding of so many other things.
Luckily we don’t have to rely on internet troll statements disguised as legal analysis.
If the efforts by Trump to pay off his mistresses in order to avoid bad publicity for his campaign are violations of finance law, this will come out regardless of your asinine attempts to justify anything and everything that Trump does. I’d generally trust the US legal system over a blinkered useful idiot every day of the week.
That would be the legal system that couldn’t get a guilty verdict on John Edwards under similar facts.
If Cohen has a tape of this, he would have a tape of collusion too, right?
It’s known that that FBI has a LOT of tapes from Cohen. But keep pretending that this is the only one. Also, you’re skating over the fact that this proves that Trump lied about his knowledge.
“There is no campaign finance violation.”
He’s not a criminal! He’s just a liar! MikeN likes liars as long as they’re white with little hands and a combover!
“Trump has outsmarted Cohen.”
Maybe, but it seems to me that Trump is pretty good at outsmarting himself. His lawyers may have determined the timing of the release, but the content is now public and it disproves Trump’s previous assertions.
“He’s just a liar!”
Congenital liar. He recently said his father was born in Germany (actually born in New York).
Related note — the FISA documents released this week confirm that Nunes’ views and memo (arguing the indictment should never have been issued) were pure bullshit.
That was clear to anyone who cared about reality, but conspiracy mongers and flat-out liars kept on promoting it. They probably still will, but now there’s even more evidence of their dishonesty.
I also note that Trump is back to falsely claiming his campaign was “spied on” — tossing more fodder to his ignorant followers.
No the release shows Nunes correct despite all the insistence otherwise.
Biggest thing which I don’t think Nunes ever highlighted is the FBI claim in warrant application that Page is an agent of a foreign power. The main source for this is Chris Steele’s dossier. FBI never verified the dossier, but said they believe Steele to be reliable. This is probably a violation of Woods procedures setup by Mueller, but I digress.
My point is that if FBI believes Steele to be reliable, then they cannot believe Page to be an agent of Russia, because the dossier says the opposite. Dossier says Page was working for Trump via Manafort. In dossier, Trump is the head collaborator with Russia, but FBI presents it as Russia is pushing Trump via Page.
Nunes only highlighted that dossier is unverified, and even with all the redactions, I think this is clear. Not only did McCabe testify as such(Schiff claimed it was false, but his reply memo was silent on this), but if it were verified, FBI would not have to keep saying ‘we believe source to be reliable’.
FBI also lied about Hillary funding the dossier, using ‘speculate’ for something they knew to be true, and only saying it was a law firm hiring a business associate. But FBI speculates this was to get opposition research on Trump, so hey all is revealed!
They kept going back to the article Steele leaked to Isikoff. They didn’t say Steele leaked it, and that they believe he didn’t do it, thus claiming it as independent verification, all using the hook that Page denies it. But since they said Page denied it, that must mean they weren’t using the article as independent verification.
And again, they represented that Page was a foreign agent inserted by Russia into his campaign, while using material that said Page was working for Trump to collaborate with Russia.
I’ll say one thing mikeN, it takes gitd to lie the way you do when all of the evidence showing your comments are lies is so clear.
I’m guessing you haven’t read the FISA application, or the Steele Dossier, or the Nunes memo.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fisa-warrant-application-supports-nunes-memo
You’re the same guy who, when confronted with tens of thousands of papers and bodies of empirical evidence indicating human-caused global warming, says that there’s no global warming.
So excuse us if we don’t pay any credence to your fantasist re-interpretation of the FISA application, Steele’s dossier, or the mendacity of Nunes’ disgraceful memo. And by the way, I’ve read them all and disagree with your spin on each.
For what it is worth, Trump is Putin’s poodle:
The Shocking Truth About Trump
There is no collusion. Especially in the sense that they don’t call it collusion when you are just working for somebody, do they? Trump is working for Putin.
I wonder when or even if the enormity of their bad presidential election choice in 2016 will ever sink in to Republicans. They selected a mob associated braggart, known to have cheated on his wives, who stiffed his employees, swindled people with Trump University, relied heavily on the Russians for funding, and selected a campaign manager deeply connected to the Russians.
I guess that the Republicans just, in general, don’t have the guts to face up to their mistakes and own them. Trump certainly doesn’t. America is under attack, and Trump’s behavior is showing stress cracks that can’t be ignored. Putin definitely let him know who was boss in Helsinki!!
Trump is long past due for replacement. Maybe by the end of the summer the remaining decent Republicans can help topple him. Living in a mafia run world is no way to exist.
Ironically, about two minutes before I read this I was reading a Guardian piece (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/23/liberals-donald-trump-support) and pretty much concluded that rusted-on Trump/Republican voters won’t ever reconsider their choice until they are confronted with a horror of the magnitude of Hitler’s atrocities. The conservative part of humanity is peopled with individuals who are so welded to their lizard-brain ideologies that they cannot change their minds when faced with truth or evidence until it overwhelms them.
This, together with the disproportionate influence of money and power by vested interests, is why humanity will very likely fail despite the fact that there are examples of functional societies: put simply, there’s too much Stupid and too much greed for a critical mass of civility to triumph.
“I guess that the Republicans just, in general, don’t have the guts to face up to their mistakes and own them.”
Look at the 8 years of false accusations made about President Obama without any fact checking by the right, the 8 years of death threats to him and his family by the tea-baggers and other libertarians that didn’t bother the right, and the decades old set of lies about the horrible things HRC (supposedly) did, was doing, and continues to do. Folks like mikeN are so opposed to letting women or minorities have any position of authority that they
a) will support any conspiracy theory about an opponent: Obama “gave away” Croatia, was weak on Russia, etc., HRC took $400 million from Russians, “gave away” uranium, was responsible for Benghazi, the Clinton Foundation was embroiled in “pay for play” scandals all the time — none of those are remotely true, but they work on the weak minded
b) Don’t care that records show Trump and his family used their “charity” as a personal bank, that Trump has a documented record of assaulting women (something they cheerfully point out about Bill Clinton), that Trump has improved an economy that was “in shambles” when he took office (both parts of that sentence are false)
and more. When you examine any movement (Republican party, tea baggers, libertarians) that has leadership opposed to reality and decency you’re not going to find the brightest or most honest membership.
Washington Examiner? Really? What, were breitbart and infowars both down?
You’re not even trying mikeN.
Yes, i’ve read them, and understood them. You’re missing the second 50%.
Any errors in point one of Nunes memo that I misunderstood?
1) The “dossier” compiled by Christopher Steele (Steele dossier) on behalf of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Hillary Clinton campaign formed an essential part of the Carter Page FISA application. Steele was a longtime FBI source who was paid over $160,000 by the DNC and Clinton campaign, via the law firm Perkins Coie and research firm Fusion GPS, to obtain derogatory information on Donald Trump’s ties to Russia.
a) Neither the initial application in October 2016, nor any of the renewals, disclose or reference the role of the DNC, Clinton campaign, or any party/campaign in funding Steele’s efforts, even though the political origins of the Steele dossier were then known to senior and FBI officials.
b) The initial FISA application notes Steele was working for a named U.S. person, but does not name Fusion GPS and principal Glenn Simpson, who was paid by a U.S. law firm (Perkins Coie) representing the DNC (even though it was known by DOJ at the time that political actors were involved with the Steele dossier). The application does not mention Steele was ultimately working on behalf of—and paid by—the DNC and Clinton campaign, or that the FBI had separately authorized payment to Steele for the same information.
The conservative on line newspaper the Washington Free Beacon originally hired Fusion GPS to get dirt on Trump. Russian operatives continue to put doubt in the veracity of the Steele dossier, but much of it was shown to be true and the rest probably can’t be proven one way or the other at this point.
Meanwhile, looking at Trump’s behavior after the summit, it is hard not to see that he is a man beholden onto Putin. There is an awful lot of evidence that Trump is deeply involved with Putin, that Trump did a lot of smelly deals with Russian oligarchs, and that Trump looks like a classic money launderer. But what do you expect, after all.
The seamier side of the conservative power structure sold out most of their values, and selected a mob associated braggart, known to have cheated on his wives, who stiffed his employees, swindled people with Trump University, relied heavily on the Russians for funding, used bankruptcy to avoid responsibility, and who selected a campaign manager deeply connected to the Russians.
It is a testament to the strength of our justice system that Trump is allowed the benefit of the doubt despite his sordid behavior and past infractions. That is, by the way, the same justice system the Trump and his lock step authoritarian supporters seem to want to tear down for some reason. Like most of their behavior, this doesn’t makes sense any more.
Much was shown to be true because it was available in the media at the time it was written.
Grassley wrote a memo shortly after Nunes memo which said that there is no corroboration of dossier in the FISA application.
Few could be as constitutionally stupid as MikeN and still post with the dedicated fervour and with the extensive and highly erroneous factoids as he does here.
He’s either a troll operating at the behest of right-wingers and/or Russians, or he knows that he’s lying but is willing to do so in order to promulgate his ideology.
Remember that mikeN still believes the Nunes memo, even though all parts of it have been trashed, he still believes there was a conspiracy to make Trump’s inauguration crowd appear smaller than it was, has defended the Charlotsville Nazi who chose to use his car as a weapon and attack a crowd of people, and on and on and on.
He’s like a conspiracy-theories-are-us store.
I hope that eveyone’s listening to Maddow at the moment, because she’s covering the Atlantic’s revelation that the White House is trying to expunge from the official record Putin’s admission that the Russians interfered in the election because they wanted Trump elected.
This is explicit evidence of official corruption – I do not understand how the US can tolerate such disinformation and treachery from the government.
Your democracy is about to die.
Nope. Seems that was the audio feed. Fox News played it differently so the question could be heard, but the Washington Post transcript had it same as the White House.
https://t.co/yOaU8yVDiV
Along with millions of Americans if Russia Ukraines the US.
Sleepwalking to oblivion. Trump is America’s Nero.
“Fox News played it differently ”
I’m sure they did. I’ll wait until someone with integrity (not you, not Fox) to give details.
I only know this from the Washington Post story I linked above.
Putin did not say Yes I did. Yes I did.
https://www.facebook.com/catherine.fitzpatrick/posts/10155441055401993
I’m not sure if anyone was claiming he admitted to interference, just that he wanted Trump to win, which is unchanged by the correct interpretation of his remarks.
Unless you know better than umpteen US intelligence agencies, Russian interference in the election is a matter of fact at this point.
In this case, 2 + 2 = 4.
The usual suspects here should appreciate the
Think Progress take.
The sad bit about Trump and his free news service Fox lying about what was on the recording is that the “usual suspects” here and around the country won’t believe what the tape says but what Trump/Fox says it says.