As a logical person seeking an understanding of what happened with the election, the Trump campaign, all of that, there is one piece of information that led me, long ago, to strongly suspect that there was an arrangement made between Trump and his campaign, the Russians, and Wikileaks (and possibly other intermediaries).
This was when two people with inside information told us that this was happening. These two individuals told us that information that we later learned was stolen by Russian agents and distributed via WikiLeaks and other means would be used to affect the outcome of the election.
The first instance was a bit vague, but it was repeated several times and in retrospect, this is strongly suggestive. Here:
The second was not vague at all and is very clear, considering what was said, when it was said, and what happened:
I’m not claiming this is court admisible evidence. But then again, I’m not a court. I’m a person. When I see these two sets of comments, knowing what happened, I see this as very strong evidence that the alleged arrangement was not only real, but emerged as a strategy, from an internal discussion among the campaign personnel, including Trump.
Both of these men are blowhards and morons.
This raises one historically interesting question.
Giuliani is well known for having successfully carried out one of the most difficult and intense investigations and prosecutions ever, shutting down powerful NY mafia families. But looking at his recent incriminating bloviating, one has to wonder. Was Giuliani taking credit he did not deserve? Has he lost part of his self control or reasoning, lowering his capacity to think and communicate to Trumpian levels?
No matter, really. We should probably not be looking a gift horse in the mouth. Long live Rudy Giuliani as Trump’s lawyer!
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Giuliani has always been an attention seeking no-substance hack, so this isn’t any surprise. His admission that Trump actually repaid Cohen (despite Trump’s emphatic admission that he didn’t know about the Cohen’s actions and had never paid him for it) is just another consequence of the lack of organization in Trump’s White House.
I don’t know how the collusion investigation will pan out. I do know that only an idiot, or someone committed to his or her previous lies, will deny that Russia had hands all over the internet with fake messages against President Obama and HRC — especially since we now know that they were a major force behind the Jade Helm “Obama is going to declare martial law here in Texas” bullshit that the right ate up. If that fact doesn’t worry those people — well, we know Trump supporters don’t care about protecting the country’s voting integrity, only about “protecting” it from their favorite boogeymen: women, minorities, and immigrants. If Russia helps with that, so be it.
Giuliani’s siting of NYC’s Emergency Response center inside a complex that had already been struck by terrorists was a work of a complete idiocy. Not providing 9/11 rescue and recovery workers with proper respiratory equipment was another disqualifying move by “America’s Mayor”, or some other idiot perception shaper, maybe in the Bush cabinet. Either way, that stupid failure cost many fine people their lives. Not providing NYC police and fire services with adequate radio equipment was another devastating fuck up under Rudy, and it too cost lives.
Perhaps he was the perfect DA to put a crime family out of business, but I’m not sure what transferable skills that affords him at anything else. He is a first class, evil prick, who, like Trump, doesn’t seem to have any idea of how to act in environments that aren’t testosterone driven. It is a blessing for democracy that he and Trump have linked up again, but I suspect that Trump can’t afford too many more embarrassments this week, so Rudy better learn how to contain his sadistic fascist glee and keep his aging yellow choppers out of sight.
Giuliani was talking about hacked e-mails but the ones on Hillary’s server. Comey’s letter reopening the case was a few days later, with the decision already made at that point. The NYPD and SDNY FBI were telling Giuliani what was going on with the Hillary e-mails found on Weiner’s laptop. The secret that the country doesn’t know about Loretta Lynch that Comey writes about in his book was I think that Lynch was threatening to prosecute NYPD over the Eric Garner case if they didn’t play ball on the laptop. Lynch replaced the NY DOJ prosecutors the same day Giuliani gave this interview, and Erik Prince would reveal the Eric Garner connection in an interview around then. The IG’s report on Andy McCabe mentions Eric Garner for no apparent reason.
If you look at the text messages that have been released, there is one bombshell the media has ignored- Weiner’s attorney handed over the e-mails to DOJ. Comey talking about getting a warrant doesn’t make sense.
And now Lisa Page has announced her resignation. The team that was spying on Trump and arranging an insurance policy in case he wins is slowly being taken out. James Baker, Rybicki, Lisa Page, Sally Yates, all fired or resigned along with Mike Kortan fired after issuing without authorization an FBI statement that the Nunes memo is damaging to national security.
Is there no stupid ass conspiracy that’s too stupid for you mikeN?
And back to nunes, the master of nothing? You do know that after he demanded the Justice Department records he never read them? He is as empty and dishonest as you are.
Get off the “illegal spying on Trump” stuff, and get over the emails from HRC. The fact that you don’t like the conclusion of the investigation doesn’t negate the fact that there was one, and there wasn’t anything to prosecute. I know you are a fan of making up crimes by those you don’t like (and ignoring the ones by people you like) but that doesn’t mean shit. It does continue your record of never making a comment that is fact based, so at least you have that.
I suppose it is a fact free comment. All those people haven’t quit or been fired.
I was wrong about the fact that Lynch replaced the prosecutors the same day as this speech by Giuliani. It was the day before.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/justice-department-review-means-eric-garner-case/story?id=43085124
I’m surprised Greg didn’t bring up Roger Stone’s statement about Podesta, the other out of context report that’s been popular(He said Podestas time in the barrel, referring to their links with Manafort).
That is, he didn’t say ‘Podesta’s time in the barrel’ but ‘Podestas’ time in the barrel’ referring to John’s brother as well. Podesta Group was involved in these matters.
Mueller filed an indictment against a bunch of Russians he knew wouldn’t appear to defend themselves. Well one of them did, and now Mueller is asking to delay the case?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/04/mueller-russia-interference-election-case-delay-570627
And dnow Trump has given s speech in which he played terrorists shooting people. I am waiting to see how the ignorant sheep on the right defend this latest bit of asshattery by the shitwad in chief.
Will the Trump base, as a group, ever tire of his incessant lying? His deceit and treachery in service of his own selfish goals are starting to wear on even some of his most ardent supporters.
Trump is amazingly consistent in doing almost whatever it is that is in Putin’s best interest. Take climate change. Everything about climate change, from fossil fuel economics, to the opening of northern ports and lands, makes Putin an advocate for ignoring the science on climate change. Or take race relations in America. What would Putin like better than to have the mixed race reactor of humanity’s best hopes and dreams collapse into more and more race inequity?
A side note to any and all racist in the audience. Anyone who thinks that their particular nationalist sub species is the best and brightest of all time in all criterion is a fucking idiot. Steve Bannon and Steven MIller are not the vanguard of some master race. They are a couple of low brow, science-free bigots who mistake their own testosterone intoxicated egos for Godheads. As does Trump, who is a pathological liar to boot.
Then why is Russia going along with the Paris Accord and before that Kyoto? Why is Putin financing green groups and anti-fracking films?
Trump’s energy extraction provides competition for Russia.
Trump seems yet to realise that picking mates who have habitually fluffed for him in business is not a strategy that is going to work for him in grown-up’s court. Giuliani is just the latest in a long line of sycophants who crumble when the going gets tough. As with so many others I hope that Trump keeps him on the team though, because it’s only to the benefit of discovery to have Rudy there.
And in vaguely-related news, it seems that Avenatti may pull something out of his sleeve this week:
https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/993110665307959303
Whether it will result in a palpable hit remains to be seen.
I don’t understand why Avenatti doesn’t just take the Paula Jones route to bring down Trump.
Keep in mind that Paula Jones got to sue for defamation over something published by American Spectator, written by (now liberal activist/embezzler head of Media Matters) David Brock, that was said not by Bill Clinton but by someone on security that just said ‘Paula’.
Trump is saying the porn star is lying about an affair. The precedent is there for her to sue for defamation, put Trump under oath, and then produce a perjury charge. Why this junk about a campaign finance violation that clearly won’t fly if anyone takes an honest look at the John Edwards case. They ended up with a hung jury, mistrial and eventually dropped the case, but first had to argue that it was a campaign finance violation because of Edwards’s image as a family man. Don’t think they can make that argument with Trump.
mikeN’s comment are an an ever increasing arc of stupid and dishonest. Stupid, or intentionally dishonest and misleading? Too close to call.
Dean,
Looks to me like MikeN is spouting instant barroom blather, although… This is just the kind of approach to ‘thinking’ that wingnut radio and other outlets have spent decades cultivating as a vector for propaganda; sort of a package of training materials that include language, rhythms, laziness, and stock fallacies that are easily assimilated — like a cult of mendacity.
Whatever else is going on in Mike’s head, he’s certainly got the rap down. He’s probably not even aware that his brain has been taken over by a Trojan Horse.
Anything in particular you wish to object to? Do you think a defamation case against Trump is invalid?
Russia has not yet ratified the Paris Accord. “Vladimir Putin has said humans are not to blame for climate change – and that the melting of the ice in the Arctic could be used for Russia’s “economic ends”. ” The Independent
“The apparent reversal in Mr Putin’s attitude to climate change came shortly after White House spokesman Sean Spicer announced that Donald Trump would decide by May whether the US will remain in the Paris Agreement. ”
From Sept. 2012 Reuters… “Russia confirmed on Thursday it would not make cuts in greenhouse gas emissions from 2013 under the U.N.’s Kyoto Protocol, joining Canada and Japan in rejecting an extension of the plan for fighting climate change.”
Conservatives seem to be so easily enamored of Russians. Putin claims he is a Christian and the white nationalists swoon and embrace him. And that is one really stupid move. The Russians are sowing the seeds of chaos within the US by supporting political entities that cause disunity in America. Russia loves to cause friction and division among Americans who should be working together, people who should be investing in developing energy sources that don’t turn the planet into a giant turd. Perhaps Rush Limbaugh works for the Russians?
Russia does not want America to be a strong, unified, coherent, inclusive society. Russia knows that America gains much strength due to its diversity. Russia knows that the American image around the world, especially under Obama, was generally admired. Russia knows that our State Department is strengthened by our vast pool of people from all the world’s ethnicities.
Oh yeah, and isn’t it funny that Russia hosts NRA evangelists and supports the NRA in the USA, while making gun ownership in Russia strictly controlled, far more strictly than in the US. They love it that America is terrorizing itself with its own guns. They absolutely love it.
Speaking of the NRA, it’s fitting that they now have a felon and supporter of terrorists on two continents as their new president. Criminals everywhere should be thrilled (although we need to remember that gold ol’ Ronnie is ultimately responsible for hanging the 200+ Marines out to be killed by personally ordering no active defense of their post in Lebanon, then giving his blessing to giving weapons to their supporters, to the terrorists in Central America, and to ordering US agencies to stand aside while the Central American terrorists moved drugs into the US to raise funds. Trump isn’t the only Republican president to surround himself with scum and do evil things, but he is cut out of Reagan’s mold.)
Hi,
I too find that this was just a really odd case, but I think that people are forgetting just how bad Rudy can be. Anyway, I referenced your blog in my post here http://oneworldpress.net/2018/05/08/rudy-giuliani-hannity-truth/ because I think that it was a quick and concise analysis in the aftermath of that stumbling interview. Keep up the good work!
Re MikeN: “but first had to argue that it was a campaign finance violation because of Edwards’s image as a family man. Don’t think they can make that argument with Trump.”
Now Mike, you should know by now how gullible and deluded Republican voters can be: Before the election, the sister of someone I know well told her that she was voting for Trump “because he was a good family man.”
Hell, some of them still believe Trump’s inauguration crowd was far larger than the “fake news media” showed it to be. That’s how gullible and deluded over easily disproved things they can be.
Tyvor, this is something that was predicted around convention time. People would cite Trump’s kids as their reason for voting for him. It’s a ‘fake because’. They wanted to vote for Trump but didn’t want to admit their real reasons, and latched onto something more respectable.
I do concede that Trump has a big family, if that counts as image of a family man.
I think people should be more bothered with the logic of the government going after Edwards for a campaign finance violation, on grounds that he is a family man.
And the dickhead in chief has pulled the US out of Iran deal, which his own people say is working and Iran is not violating, simply because it was put into place by someone who wasn’t white.
The scum in the US are thrilled. Decent people are horrified.
And Michael Avenatti has now dropped another bombshell on Michael Cohen, that now puts both Cohen and Trump right back into the crosshairs for collusion with Russia via payments from oligarch Viktor Vekselberg:
https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/993960339443200000
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/us/politics/michael-cohen-shell-company-payments.html?smid=tw-share
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/daniels-lawyer-cohen-got-500k-russian-oligarch-viktor-vekselberg-n872481
Of course, Mueller probably already knows this, but now it is ever harder for Trump to shout “no collusion.”
A hint of deja vu perhaps:
https://www.juancole.com/2018/05/trump-warmonger-playbook.html
In other news:
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stuck-his-face-in-rudy-guilianis-chest-in-2000-drag-comedy-skit-2018-5
Stay classy America.
Well, “decent people” are not as horrified enough as a group as they should be. It would be different if their sons (and daughters?) were subject to the draft. As long as we have a volunteer “warrior class,” war is something most people read about in the newspaper or see on tv, not real at all. It is horrifying to me that many Americans are apparently willing to support politicians who send many thousands of brave and patriotic mostly young people into stupid and avoidable wars just to show how “tough” the politicians are.
Electing Donald Trump president and sweeping in enough Republicans with him to dominate the entire federal government may well be the stupidest thing the American political process has ever accomplished. And that covers a lot of stupidity.
Yes, Mueller knew about it. It was reported that they interviewed this Russian at the airport awhile back.
Bigger question is how did Avenatti get his hands on Cohen’s bank records?
From raid of Cohen’s office, someone at Treasury leaked it to him, or is he engaged in his own criminal search?
Avenatti’s source is likely in the government, as it’s hoovered up some miscellaneous ‘Michael Cohen’ records that aren’t Trump’s lawyer. So someone in Trump’s administration has put themselves in the crosshairs trying to do the right thing by the country: unless, of course, they were trying to warn targets and/or to put up obstacles that could be used by defence counsel’s as grounds for dismissal…
I suspect that Avenatti is well aware of the tensions between keeping silent and using the material himself, and I reckon that he’s figured that there are more benefits than harm from him coming forward with the material. It certainly takes some of the heat off Mueller in terms of dismissal, as there are now so many irons in the fire that attempts to quell the investigation will become transparent as obstruction.
And it helps to explain though why Mueller is taking the time that he is – there’s simply a huge and tangled web of connections of which most people are blithely unaware. Yesterday Pence was pinged by the Washington Post for being “worse than Trump”, and there appears to be indication that he’s been a subject of interest too, so it may be more accurate to say ‘blanket’ than ‘web’.
Blech – stray apostrophe.
Re MikeN: “They wanted to vote for Trump but didn’t want to admit their real reasons, and latched onto something more respectable.”
I’m sure that there is something to that argument so perhaps gullibility is not always a factor, but you have to admit that it takes a certain amount of self-delusion to say the words “good family man” and expect to be believed about a serial adulterer who has said the things he’s said about women. A lie that no rational human would believe is not a good cover for an discreditable motive so why not pick something true and believable about Trump? Here’s an example “Trump has been a very successful con man and self-advertiser, and he lies easily and often. These are all useful qualities for getting your own way and wriggling out from under any major consequences. A President needs such qualities to get along in a hostile world.” There you are: true and believable.
Not ‘good family man’ but ‘I love his kids’.
I find it odd that not one of his kids exhibit the same jerk behavior of their dad.
That comment deserves to be stared at with mouth open, simply for the massive amount of stupidity/denial contained in only 18 words.
MikeN, let me explain the reason for your perception of “odd[ness]” – it’s your cognitive scotoma, grossly exacerbated by your ideological biases.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-jr-legal-jeopardy-635182
https://thinkprogress.org/ivanka-trump-ethics-disclosure-profit-d6190f663c6b/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ivanka-trump-self-help-book-profits-unethical-white-house-adviser-conflict-interest-first-daughter-a7715206.html
There are dozens more reasons to scrutinise the entire Trump clan, but these might serve to ring a bell in your head.
So yesterday we saw
– the dedication of the new “embassy” with accompanying killing of protesters by the Israeli military
– Trump’s son-in-law, and spokesperson, blaming the murders on the victims
– The portion of the son-in-law’s speech where he blamed the victims for their occupation and use as targets was not included in the official White House transcripts
– A speech by a minister who is on record as saying Jews, Hindus, Muslims — anyone who is not a white Christian — will be doomed to hell
– A speech by a minister on record as saying Hitler was doing God’s work
– A speech by a rabbi who just this last spring gave speeches describing blacks as “ignorant monkeys”
– A statement from the White House saying they didn’t know how people with such extreme views were given time to speak
But no, this administration doesn’t pander to the worst people — racists, religious bigots, and other low-life scum — at all.
>saying Jews, Hindus, Muslims — anyone who is not a white Christian — will be doomed to hell
If a group doesn’t believe in Hell, why should they be insulted by this?
MikeN for the stupid. Again.
I think Mike’s brain may have finally imploded.
Meanwhile, where are the Democrats…? We know where The Onion is.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/05/16/while-many-us-outlets-equivocate-israels-massacre-unarmed-palestinians-onions
Yikes!
I read that 50 of the 60 dead were Hamas militants.
Given the dishonest sites you visit rickA I’m suprised they announced any were not ‘militants’ (a phrase which simply means they were engaging in demonstrations against this ceremony).
The people shot (and 2400 were wounded) were protesting the events: there was no way for the military to tell, as they were shooting, who was who. It seems they were simply continuing what they’ve been doing for several weeks: shooting essentially at random into crowds to get them to disperse.
Your dishonest attempt at deflection, as with mikeN’s, is disgusting and dishonest. But we expect nothing better from either of you.
By the IDF’s own assessment after the fact:
Given their lack of concern “terrorist” in this setting could mean anything from “actual history of terrorist acts” to “someone scary looking we thought might throw a rock over a fence”.
dean:
Maybe my websites are biased. Maybe your websites are biased. I read that many militants were trying to plant bombs against the fence, or cut the fence and so forth. So maybe not just random shooting into a crowd of 30,000 people protesting.
It is hard to sort out the truth in matters like these.
Is the glass half full or half empty? Which is the “truth”. It can depend on your point of view.
I am just sharing what I read and heard so you have a different perspective.
I thank OA for sharing his link to his lampoon version of the events, which also has a point of view, which may or may not represent the “truth”.
Interesting article:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-official-50-of-the-people-killed-in-gaza-riots-were-members/
Yeah, I’d prefer to avoid being drawn into a highly charged, tribal, and ahistorical argument, Rick.
Prerequisite:
– Metaliteracy 101
Terms for today’s vocabulary assignment:
– Spotlight fallacy
– Equivocation
– False balance
– Argument from ignorance
Research suggestions:
– The Ottoman empire and how the middle east region evolved after its collapse.
– Geography and Europe’s history of violent instability.
– 19th century political ideation and its possible persistence into the 21st century.
– Ethics
Write an essay:
– Watch “Escape from Manhattan” and imagine how the story would change if you replaced the criminals with a population of ethnic refugees and political prisoners who are then subjected to various forms of group punishments, pressures, and humiliations. Would you expect thing to go well?
I meant “Escape from New York” (not Manhattan).
Your opinion is noted.
However I do not agree with it.
I will leave it to the readers to decide for themselves if my links are “full of shit” or “out of touch with reality”.
Ditto for my posts.
You keep calling me dishonest – but failing to prove it.
I added a link to support my assertion.
Just because you disagree with me does not make me dishonest.
Why it doesn’t even make me wrong!
If you truly believe that I am adding nothing factual to the conversation, than why do you keep responding?
I looked at the Times of Israel about a week ago. along with the article I was seeking, it showed me an ad for a video that purportedly would “destroy the Obamas.” This gives me reason to think that the Times of Israel may well be biased.
I’m sure you know this about rickA by now, but it bears repeating: as he’s made clear many times, his libertarian “ideals” tell him that people who are in power deserve to be there, and those who are poor or repressed in general also deserve to be, and that any use of force by the folks at the top against those at the bottom is always justified, just because, and regardless of the absence of any immediate threat.
That’s why he picks the sources he does. They agree with his demented world view.
Yes dean. That is why I read and blog this site.
Re MikeN: “If a group doesn’t believe in Hell, why should they be insulted by this?”
Insulted, maybe no, perhaps just anxious, maybe even frightened. The kind of people who say things like this also sometimes listen to voices (inside or outside their heads) that tell them it’s all right — even God’s will — that they kill these people so as to get them into Hell as soon as possible. In a country in which the number of guns is about equal to the total population, but are not distributed equally, I can see why this would be scary.
Insulted? Why not? There are believers in God and Hell who don’t automatically consign everyone to Hell just for being non-white, or even for being non-Christian. They might well consider the statement you reference as blasphemy.
Yes, if their belief is different, then they will consider it blasphemy. They may even think the other side is going to Hell for saying what they said or or not believing as they do.
Note, the statement by Christians that they are going to Hell is supposed to be coupled with trying to convert them in order to save them from Hell. So while it’s annoying as hell, the recipient rather than being insulted should think well of the person saying it.
“Hamas claims 50 of its members died in Monday’s clashes in Gaza”
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/16/middleeast/hamas-members-gaza-deaths/index.html
“Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-says-most-protesters-killed-israel-gaza-were-members-n874906
“Martyrdom photos from Gaza BUST narrative of peaceful protesters ONCE AND FOR ALL”
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/05/15/martyrdom-photos-from-gaza-bust-narrative-of-peaceful-protesters-once-and-for-all/
So much for the claim that the IDF has been “shooting essentially at random into crowds to get them to disperse.”
“The Iran-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad named three of its members on Monday who were killed in the riots.”
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gaza-protests-50-hamas-terrorists-killed-israel-border/
So, 53 out of 62 killed in the Gaza riots were members of groups designated as “terrorists” by the US Dept of State.
How did that happen if the IDF was “shooting randomly”?
One should remember that one country’s terrorist is another country’s freedom fighter. After all there were many terrorists rampant on the East coast of America in the 1770s.
Whatever, your claims about only Hamas members being shot down in the Gaza riots relies upon right wing media sources.
The recent disturbing events are down to an ignoramus doing stupid things like sanctioning the setting up of an embassy in disputed territory. A territory of which I doubt ‘the stupid’ has any idea of the history of and how marginalised the original occupants of those lands have become through a long process of ethnic cleansing.
Ilan Pappe’s book ‘The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine’ lays the groundwork by relating the events immediately following World War Two.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/jan/20/interview-ilan-pappe-historian
Palestine was a territory recognised as belonging to the Palestinians and appeared on maps as Palestine and not Israel. Indeed editions of The Bible I had as a youngster had different maps, some (belonging to my mother originally so older) delineated the territory as Palestine, whereas 1950s editions had maps with section marked as Israel, that area as defined under UN mandate leaving the remainder as Palestine.
The long history of the peoples in that area tells us that it was occupied by Philistines and Canaanites before the nomadic Hebrews migrated into the land and used force to establish their settlements. [1] The Old Testament tells us this as do archaeological excavations. These latter have shown that at the time that Joshua was supposedly reducing walls using the vibrations of feet and sounds of trumpets there were no walls of Jericho.
One really has to understand how the the Israeli administrations have carried out a viscous process over time of marginalise, expel and eradicate. Where the Palestinians have not been expelled they have been corralled into the panopticon prison (Jeremy Bentham) of the Gaza Strip surrounded by walls and barb wire which has taken over much land formerly available to the Palestinians for agriculture.
The Israeli’s have widened that buffer zone further encroaching on Palestinian lands and have tried slicing up the Gaza Strip with ‘fingers’ of incursions to further disrupt Palestinian life this in addition to bombing hospitals, power stations and restricting water supply. Israel actually built a full sized other ‘Gaza city’ in the Negev desert costing millions ($50M) so that they could practice attacking it with whatever weaponry the fancied. Often multi-headed phosphorous munitions, rockets and so on. This is the reason why Sharon removed Jewish settlers from the territory so that such actions could be carried out without the risk of Israeli casualties.
Ilan Pappe’s more recent ‘The Biggest Prison on Earth: The History of the Israeli Occupation’ explains and much more.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Biggest-Prison-Earth-History-Occupation/dp/1851685871
[1] E.g. John Heywood ‘Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations’ pp 42.
Steve Inskeep interviewed a “peaceful” Gazan protester.
“On @NPR, @NPRinskeep just asked a Gazan with a kite w a swastika on it what it means to him. “The Jews go crazy when you mention Hitler.” Steve Inskeep asked if he knows the Israelis are using the swastikas to discredit Gazans. “It’s what we mean. We want them to burn,” he said.”
https://twitter.com/NPRinskeep/status/996355922304864261
So why is Dean claiming that there is an “absence of any immediate threat” ?
Because there was not.
“Hamas Leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar: Our People Took Off Their Military Uniforms and Joined the Marches; We Decided to Turn the Bodies of Our Women and Children into a Dam Blocking Arab Collapse”
https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/997035154047733760
On Memri:
Source
Whatever. To obtain a full understanding of the Palestine/Israel issue one need to understand the history here are included covers of selected books which will let you do that. It was the imperial powers that set this in motion post WW1 by not discounting ethnic issues when drawing boundaries to suit their various agendas.
http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/WW1CandEf.jpg
So according to Dean, these incidents should not be considered as threatening???
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/a-young-palestinian-vowed-to-die-a-martyr-then-stabbed-3-israelis-to-death/2017/07/25/05b86c0a-7149-11e7-8c17-533c52b2f014_story.html?utm_term=.cd4f7829e494
https://www.haaretz.com/1.5001073
Yep, you nailed it again Lionel. The Middle East was a land of peace and tranquility with absolutely no history of ethnic conflict. That is until those damn Europeans intruded and !@#$% it all up.
Just like the Americas before Europeans came on the scene after all there were no people living there already, it was empty land just for the taking, which is what they have done.
So, not willing to engage with the history you turn to rhetorical mockery by putting thoughts into my mind. Is that really the best you have got?
A vacuous response if ever there was one, well that now makes two that you have just delivered.
No threat from this direction was there.
Then there was the USS Liberty.
Um, please explain to us all what the USS Liberty incident has to do with entire families being knifed to death in their homes.
What’s the connection?
Would you support Palestinians enabling security checks at the entrances to mosques in order to prevent a future attack?
Or would you support a riot that demands the dismantling of such security measures?
Locus instead of trying to counter your deliberately distracting and puerile points one by one I will suggest that you do some honest research and reading so that you obtain an understanding of the context of the present situation in the ME.
Besides the overt and disproportionate violence that the Palestinian population are subject to Israeli cruelty takes other forms as they redress, what was the worrying difference in the population dynamics between the two peoples. Ethnic cleansing, for that is what this is, takes many forms as the following examples demonstrate:
Bad Laws
Travel Diary
Both can also be found, with other relevant pieces in:
‘Letter to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation’ Edited by Vijay Prashad.
I was initially worried about taking this thread away from the topic implied by the title but I need not have been concerned for you soon demonstrated that you are also an ignoramus given to bloviating.
Yeah, it’s always the same. This topic (the ME) goes sideways pretty quickly.
Anyway, Troll Central occaisionally sends out a plague of one locus. It eats up space and defecates faulty generalizations, non sequiturs, and smug misrepresentations while contributing nothing.
DNFTT
Probably best not to encourage MikeN’s boring attempts at talking point collages either.
Which reminds me, one of the more revealing and relatively recent rhetorical devices you sometimes hear is that there is no ‘cycle of violence’: because if the Palestinians would just lay down their guns there would be peace. This is stunning, thought terminating illogic. In other words, there can be no cycle of violence, because if there were no cycle of violence, then there would be no cycle of violence.
Lionel, Palestine was the name used for Israel back to Roman times. The Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews. Knowledgeable Arabs respond by declaring the Jews in Israel are ‘fake Jews’.
Hamas likes to use women and children as human shields. Getting them killed is a bonus for great PR from a media that likes to attack Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKkCgpKk4SI
Mike N
No Palestine did not equate to Israel but was a larger area. Also at one time Israel was two kingdoms with only one part known as Israel.
Read again my earlier post:
You do know what EoZ TV is I suppose.
See also:
7 Myths About The Palestinian-Israeli Conflict
and
Ilan Pappe – Ten Myths About Israel
Lionel,
What is so ‘distracting’ about my questions?
I pointed out that the Middle East has a blood-soaked past that predates European created boundaries by thousands of years. In what way am I refusing to “engage” with history? My argument is literally based on history.
Still waiting for an answer about the USS Liberty being a threat “going the other way”. Threat to whom? What is the connection between the Fogel family’s murder by Palestinians and a friendly fire incident from 50 years earlier?
Still waiting for you to answer about Palestinians erecting security checks to prevent another Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.
Why are you deflecting so much?
Locus it is all context and background Locus. So stop shooting back with simplistic ruminations.
If you cannot understand my points then do some research. I know full well that the ME has a blood soaked past after all the Bible tells us with glee about the slaughter of all when the Hebrews took over towns and villages.
The topic now is the ongoing Israeli oppression of a peoples which were well established on the ground and with whom they co-existed peacefully for some time before the rampant Zionists got going with successive waves of immigration. Sure many arrived as refugees from continental Europe before and after WW2, indeed I have a copy of a biography of one of those who served during WW2 so am very familiar with the history.
Oh and BTW the Liberty incident was nothing like friendly fire. Read the Chapter ‘Blood’ in James Bamford’s:
Body Of Secrets: How America’s NSA & Britain’s GCHQ Eavesdrop On The World
I offer that version being the issue I have here. Having served in a national maritime force I understand the points of recognition only to well, also rules of engagement it was clearly a deliberate attack on a target of known identity. As I wrote, this is all context for it spotlights how ruthless the Israeli’s can be, it is all a part of the same problem – covering their tracks afraid of what the sigint ship was hearing from shoreside transmissions as bad things were happening around Al Arish. Now if you bothered to read about the Nakba and what followed, and still does, you would appreciate this as well, assuming you are a rational human being.
Now you accuse me of deflecting, you hypocrite.
Re MikeN: “So while it’s annoying as hell, the recipient rather than being insulted should think well of the person saying it.”
Possibly. It depends on how they go about their conversion attempt and what it takes to make them stop. Not too long ago in N Louisiana, a lawsuit was brought against a public school in which at least one non-Christian student was told by a teacher that his/her religion “was stupid.” Classes involved prayers and memorization of religious
doctrinal information if I remember correctly and the teacher’s supervisor told the complaining parents that they were in the Bible belt and should either change their religion or move. Think well of those people? I think not. It is not as if it were a matter of evidence. There is no empirical evidence for any religion; it is a judgment call which can’t be judged here on Earth.
I notice that you didn’t address my first point regarding the natural anxiety of people about religiously-motivated hostility to the point of murder. I may take that as tacit agreement.
I don’t know how to feel about Trump. Does he have a grand scheme underway or is he fumbling his way into disaster? He’s difficult to nail down. I’m undecided about DJT. I understand that most voters are set in stone about the president. I strongly believe that Giuliani & President Trump are two peas in a pod, However.
Lionel A,
“Whatever, your claims about only Hamas members being shot down in the Gaza riots relies upon right wing media sources.”
NBC news is now “right wing”? CNN is now “right wing”?
I specifically searched for sources that you couldn’t ad hominem, and yet you still did.
Lionel A,
“The recent disturbing events are down to an ignoramus doing stupid things like sanctioning the setting up of an embassy in disputed territory.”
The Jerusalem Embassy act of 1995 was passed with overwhelming support from both houses of Congress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act
Both Clinton and Obama promised to move the embassy, but didn’t.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/14/watch-obama-clinton-bush-say-jerusalem-israel-capital/
“Anyway, Troll Central occaisionally sends out a plague of one locus. It eats up space and defecates faulty generalizations, non sequiturs, and smug misrepresentations while contributing nothing.
DNFTT ”
Apparently Obstreperous Applesauce has not been educated enough to distinguish between the mathematical term “locus” and the insect called a “locust”.
It’s a pun, dumbass.
Lionel A,
You’re still deflecting.
Please explain to us all what the USS Liberty incident has to do with an infant being decapitated in a crib?
If you have something to say, then stop being mealy-mouthed and say it. I’m not going to try and guess what you mean because even if I guess absolutely correctly you’ll still whine that I’m “putting words in your mouth”.
Lionel A,
You’re still deflecting. You never answered my questions.
Would you support Palestinians enabling security checks at the entrances to mosques in order to prevent a future attack?
Or would you support a riot that demands the dismantling of such security measures?
Lionel A,
“I know full well that the ME has a blood soaked past after all the Bible tells us with glee about the slaughter of all when the Hebrews took over towns and villages. ”
So you’re a biblical literalist? Don’t want to be accused of misrepresenting your position.
Obstreperous Applesauce,
“It’s a pun, dumbass.”
Sure it was.
Because you have to be impressed with the literary skills of someone who spells “occasionally” as “occaisionally”.
You’re good at trolling, I’ll give you that.
“The recent disturbing events are down to an ignoramus doing stupid things like sanctioning the setting up of an embassy in disputed territory.”
If they get that violent in response to setting up an embassy in disputed territory, then I wonder how violent they would get at setting up a capital in disputed territory.
They weren’t violent mikeN. They weren’t in any position to threaten events. They were simply shot because they were protesting and the military leaders knew they could get away with it.
The bigotry of you, locus, and rickA, would be disgusting to see if this weren’t the first time, but your history of dishonest representation (and especially locus’ pretending that being presented with the horrible Nazi representations actually constitutes a “threat” that deserves being shot) means it’s simply par for the course.
My first post came after those links and after a number of exchanges you used partisan sources for back up. Whatever, NBC and CNN are not known for balanced reporting, that you don’t recognise that shines a spotlight on your inability to do other than chose confirmation bias, most media outlets fail on this issue as the texts of my sources show.
Then you link to The Federalist which is right wing, check out the troubled history of founder Ben Domenech which includes plagiarism.
No, I am not deflecting, your two questions are ill-formed having little connect with the history of the Levant and you would understand why if you engaged with the literature I have suggested, including such as shown here:
http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/WW1CandEf.jpg
As for me being a biblical literalist , that is one asinine suggestion, given it is on account of one statement that you didn’t like because it spoiled your narrative. No I have studied history and the bible is an, at times none to reliable when it comes to opinion, historical document which can be used as such, if with care.
I have provided links to sources:
‘Letter to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation’ Edited by Vijay Prashad.
and here: https://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587847
here: https://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587853
Jeremy Bowen also produced an excellent overview of the 67 war in his
‘Six Days: How the 1967 War Shaped the Middle East’
which also includes a description of the attack on the USS Liberty. Now if you cannot understand the relevance of that, even after having it pointed out, then that is your failure not mine.
Now a better understanding is up to you, further smoke blowing on your part will be taken as a sign that you are not here for reasonable informed discussion. I could produce a thesis sized post on this or write a book, but oh wait those books have been written and I suggest that you study them. Smart Alec answers from you will not do.
What … is … the … link … between … the … USS Liberty … incident … and … the … decapitation … of … an … infant ????
Why won’t you answer?
So even NBC and CNN are too right wing for you? And of course you immediately go for the ad hominem with the Federalist.
So please tell us how these sources got it wrong. Was there a Jerusalem Embassy Act that passed Congress in 1995 or not?
“No, I am not deflecting, your two questions are ill-formed having little connect with the history of the Levant …”
Wut? You brought up the horrible terrorist attack at the Cave of the Patriarchs but when I respond you accuse me of going off topic.
“Now a better understanding is up to you, further smoke blowing on your part will be taken as a sign that you are not here for reasonable informed discussion.”
Oh, I think it’s getting pretty obvious which of us is blowing smoke …
Darn it, fell foul of a link number limit, I think, splitting.
My first post came after those links and after a number of exchanges you used partisan sources for back up. Whatever, NBC and CNN are not known for balanced reporting, that you don’t recognise that shines a spotlight on your inability to do other than chose confirmation bias, most media outlets fail on this issue as the texts of my sources show.
Then you link to The Federalist which is right wing, check out the troubled history of founder Ben Domenech which includes plagiarism.
No, I am not deflecting, your two questions are ill-formed having little connect with the history of the Levant and you would understand why if you engaged with the literature I have suggested, including such as shown here:
http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/WW1CandEf.jpg
As for me being a biblical literalist , that is one asinine suggestion, given it is on account of one statement that you didn’t like because it spoiled your narrative. No I have studied history and the bible is an, at times none to reliable when it comes to opinion, historical document which can be used as such, if with care.
“No I have studied history and the bible is an, at times none to reliable when it comes to opinion, historical document which can be used as such, if with care.”
Well that’s fascinating. So please tell us how you use the Bible as a historical source. What **objective** standard do you apply to determine the Bible’s accuracy?
Locus
Part 2
I have provided links to sources:
‘Letter to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation’ Edited by Vijay Prashad.
and here: https://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587847
here: https://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587853
Jeremy Bowen also produced an excellent overview of the 67 war in his
‘Six Days: How the 1967 War Shaped the Middle East’
which also includes a description of the attack on the USS Liberty. Now if you cannot understand the relevance of that, even after having it pointed out, then that is your failure not mine.
Now a better understanding is up to you, further smoke blowing on your part will be taken as a sign that you are not here for reasonable informed discussion. I could produce a thesis sized post on this or write a book, but oh wait those books have been written and I suggest that you study them. Smart Alec answers from you will not do.
As an aside, re: CNN et al.
Back in the 70’s the MacNiel/Lehrer News Hour used to have both Juan Cole and Netanyahu on as guests. How times change…
Dean,
Palestinians were not killed for protesting, but for attempting and then actually breaching the border fence. Hamas and Islamic Jihad not only admit, but proudly announce, that their members constituted the vast majority of the dead.
The young Gazan interviewed by Steve Inskeep was not shot for displaying Nazi imagery. He wasn’t shot at all. The swastika was merely the predicate for the interview. The important point was the Gazan freely admiting that the intention of the Palestinians was to commit mass murder if they could cross the border, thus revealing Dean’s claim that the protesters are “peaceful” for the lie that it is.
locus, keep your bigoted shit to yourself.
Dean,
I’m truly awed by your skill in debate.
Answering more Hocus Pocus from Locus
A border fence which should not be there, a border that is not how you imagine it, as I have written before, this is a border zone which Israel has widened increasing the encroachment onto former Palestinian territory further limiting agriculture. The Israelis are very devious and duplicitous and you swallow their propaganda whole, shame on you.
“The Israeli military confines the 2 million Gazans with parallel barbed-wire barriers separated by a 300 yard land moat, surveillance sensors, constant patrols bearing shoot-to-kill orders, and only two exit check-points, one (Erez crossing) where Israel controls the border, the other (Rafah crossing) which Egypt controls.”
Source
The inhuman truth about the Gaza Strip:
Running on empty: inside the Gaza strip
According to Israeli partisan sources and western media who get their material from Israeli partisan sources.
According to the interpretation by the media source. Who knows? This whole thing could be more propaganda, a set up like the pantomime shown in the clip put up here by MikeN, in order to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors, the speaker could even be an Israeli speaking in a Palestinian tongue this is a known propaganda tactic used by the duplicitous Israeli authorities.
So you agree with Trump and Alex Jones about “fake news”?
“This whole thing could be more propaganda …”
Why would the American media participate in such an alleged setup?
Locus of Hocus Pocus
Still didn’t answer the question. What objective standard do you use to determine which stories of the Bible are historically accurate?
Or do you merely engage in confirmation bias, accepting only that which conforms to your narrative?
Now Locus, in order for you to even begin to grasp why your repeated questions were so ill formed being based upon ignorance I urge you to read Ilan Pappe’s ‘The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”
Here is a source where you can choose to read as text (OCR with uncorrected obvious mistranslations) or as a PDF.
https://archive.org/details/PAPPEIlanTheETHNICCLEANSINGOfPALESTINE_201804
One snippet:
pp. xii–xiv of my print edition.
When you have read, learned and inwardly digest that then move on to
‘The Biggest Prison on Earth’ which will lead to understanding of the dire plight of Palestinians living under Israel’s capricious rule, a regime which is Fascist in application.
Still waiting for an answer. What does the USS Liberty incident have to do with the decapitation of an infant?
Neat, taking my ideas up well you as an expert in confirmation bias you should know how that works. Whatever, as you fail to grasp what I am on about you clearly have had a narrow education.
Bit slow on the uptake are you not, I have explained that one, the original mention of the USS Liberty was as a stand alone sentence and it was you who concatenated two memes into one. I had explained why the USS Liberty was mentioned, it is all a part of the bigger picture, not my problem if you think in a straight-jacket – that narrow education again. Also that dishonest streak perverting the meaning of posts from others.
Arguing with you is like handling a hagfish, being left with a load of slime. Go back to bottom feeding.
Nope. You’re deflecting again.
Why won’t you answer?
**You’re** the one who brought up the USS Liberty.
I know. What is wrong with you that you fail to understand that I mentioned this as one part of the bigger picture, a picture which I have been unfolding and which YOU ignore whilst repeating yourself in a purile manner.
I am through with you on these points. Go read up on stuff you waste of space.
“I am through with you on these points.”
And the whole world heaves a collective sigh of relief.
Being legless did not prevent one Palestinian from being shot by the Israelis, I suppose they were worried that he could rush a fence of the border zone.
Israel Troops Shot Dead a Wheelchair-Bound Palestinian Protesting Trump’s Jerusalem Capital Move
“I am through with you on these points”
Well that didn’t last long.
So, still waiting for you to explain the connection between the USS Liberty incident and the decapitation of a 3-month old infant.
Still waiting for you to answer if you believe that the Palestinians have a right to erect security checkpoints at crowded locations? Or would you endorse a riot demanding that the Palestinians NOT put up checkpoints.?
Letters to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation
Still waiting for you to explain the connection between the USS Liberty incident and the decapitation of a 3-month old infant.
Still waiting for you to answer if you believe that the Palestinians have a right to erect security checkpoints at crowded locations? Or would you endorse a riot demanding that the Palestinians NOT put up checkpoints?
And then we have:
Murderous humanitarianism
locus has a long history of bigotry, racism, and flat out dishonesty on several blogs. Looking for rationality from him is as big a waste of time as looking for art in watery dog shit.
“IDF snipers, under instructions from their commanders, have been picking off and murdering civilians. ”
Please explain then why Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both State Department designated terrorist groupa, have claimed the overwhelming majority of the dead as their operatives?
And of course…
Still waiting for you to explain the connection between the USS Liberty incident and the decapitation of a 3-month old infant.
Still waiting for you to answer if you believe that the Palestinians have a right to erect security checkpoints at crowded locations? Or would you endorse a riot demanding that the Palestinians NOT put up checkpoints?
So it would appear, that is why I will now be ignoring the deviant posts from that direction whilst continuing to criticise the Israeli regime’s inhuman violence against others and demonstrating how evil they have been from the planning stage of the Nakba.
Hint. Check out James Bamford (Body of Secrets etc.) on FB, he makes informative posts.
The Onion nailed it.
The evil that some are trying to ignore.
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/19/sometimes-dancing-sometimes-furious-a-girl-shot-dead-in-gaza"'Sometimes dancing, sometimes furious': a girl shot dead in Gaza
Darn it my dead finger tips strike again.
The evil that some are trying to ignore.
‘Sometimes dancing, sometimes furious’: a girl shot dead in Gaza
Dean said,
“locus has a long history of bigotry, racism, and flat out dishonesty on several blogs. Looking for rationality from him is as big a waste of time as looking for art in watery dog shit.”
Those are some serious accusations. Where’s the evidence of my alleged “bigotry” or “racism”?
every comment out of your mouth the situation surrounding Israel’s actions.
Don’t get all butthurt simply because you’re identified as a disgusting person.
For the last time:
I have explained this a number of times, one the two incidents are not directly related it was YOU who put them together not I, any such connection is a total invention of yours, you have even used different wording at times. The USS Liberty incident was being used as an example of Israeli brutality and lack of concern for international order and flagrant misuse of power which has been a feature of the Israeli intent since before the Nakba.
You are diverting away from points made in other posts but which also reflect Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Still waiting for you to read the literature so that you will understand why your point is so crass given that the Palestinians are not exactly in a position to implement such a policy.
Carrying on with with your wilful ignorance if you must but you will be talking to yourself from now on.
Blatantly false.
First you claimed that the incidents were linked but accused me of ignoring history.
Now you’re CHANGING your story to accuse me of linking the incidents.
You’re the one who brought up the Liberty in the first place !!!!
Please stop lying.
Why are you so afraid of explaining yourself? The more you dodge and weave and flat-out lie, the more people are going to believe that your belief system must be so monstrous that you dare not express it openly.
“What objective standard do you use to determine which stories of the Bible are historically accurate?”
Since there are no external confirmations for anything in the Bible, the intelligent response is that none of the big stories there are historically accurate: each one is a myth (or, more likely, an amalgamation of several different myths) put together before people had any real idea of the world outside the small region where they lived and died. Why people believe they are factual is difficult to understand, but people believe HRC somehow contributed to the activity in Benghazi and that there was a concerted effort to make President Trump’s inauguration crowd seem smaller than it was. Write it off to stupidity.
“Write it off to stupidity”
So we agree that Lionel’s use of the Bible as a historical source is stupid.
Dean,
“Don’t get all butthurt simply because you’re identified as a disgusting person.”
How am I “all butthurt”? You’re the one running around pulling false allegations out of your alimentary canal.
Locus, are you really so stupid that people familiar with you think you aren’t a racist and bigot?
Identifying you as such isn’t false. You are one of the prime examples of the worst people we have in this country.
Hey Lionel,
Dean says that your use of the Bible as a historical source is stupid. Any comment?
“Since there are no external confirmations for anything in the Bible, the intelligent response is that none of the big stories there are historically accurate: each one is a myth (or, more likely, an amalgamation of several different myths) put together before people had any real idea of the world outside the small region where they lived and died.”
Dean,
“…every comment out of your mouth the situation surrounding Israel’s actions.”
You claimed that I had a history of “bigotry” and “racism” on OTHER blogs.
Are you really so stupid you don’t know what the meaning of the word ‘other’???
Dean,
“Locus, are you really so stupid that people familiar with you think you aren’t a racist and bigot? ”
And I keep asking.
What people? Where’s your EVIDENCE?
The evidence that you are a bigot, racist, and ignorant? Every comment you make.
Dean,
““locus has a long history of bigotry, racism, and flat out dishonesty on several blogs. Looking for rationality from him is as big a waste of time as looking for art in watery dog shit.”
What history?
What bigotry?
What racism?
On what blogs?
There’s a bottom line to the appalling treatment of Palestinians by Israel.
Despite their best efforts to emulate the genocidal atrocities of their former Nazi oppressors, the Israelis will not be able to exterminate the Palestinians. And every Israeli atrocity against Palestinians, and every US aiding and abetting of the same, will be remembered by the Palestinians and their allies…
One day Israel will lose its advantage of power. Whether through global lack of preparation to oil shortage, and/or through the ravages of a warming climate, and/or as a consequence of geopolitical and/or economic turmoil, and/or because Russian (or other) nukes end up smuggled inside the country, something will give and Israel will not be able to resist the swelling tide of enmity that it has manufactured over the last three-quarters of a century.
And then all that memory, all that grievance, all that hurt and desperation and anger and frustration will wash over the country and no one, not Jew nor Christian nor Muslim, will be the better for it.
OK Let’s deal with this nonsense once and for all.
My first mention here of the Liberty massacre, for that is what it was, was on May 18, 2018 at 11:07 am where the pertinent parts are:
As we see the mention of the USS Liberty is in its own paragraph thus implying no direct connection. Although it is a part of the whole narrative that can be assembled from recorded facts of Israel’s lack of respect for life and international law for over half a century now.
You Locus then start wittering on about what connection this has to decapitating babies and other similar nonsense. The link that preceded the Liberty mention was to a shooting massacre by a ‘rogue’ Israeli fanatic who gunned down many Palestinians as seen at that link:
,
no mention of knives or babies there.
However it is illustrative of the imbalance of power between the two peoples that, from the same source:
I don’t know what it is that you are on that causes you to fantasise but I suggest that you take less of it.
It can be clearly seen who is lying, if you wish to discover who that is look in the mirror.
Well congratulations Lionel, you’ve managed to climb the Mt Everest of Stupid and plant your flag.
According to Lionel’s latest barrel of crap, only his first sentence applies in his responses. If you suggest therefore that his second sentence has any relation to the question being asked then that makes you bad, dishonest person.
That’s the kind of pretzel logic you get out when someone is desperately trying to slither their way of a jam.
What has you so scared? Did you finally realize that you’re morally repugnant?
Lionel,
“Still waiting for you to read the literature so that you will understand why your point is so crass given that the Palestinians are not exactly in a position to implement such a policy.”
What ????????
I asked about security checkpoints at the entrances to mosques. Nothing spectacular like cameras and face-recognition software. Just the basic security available at any pop concert venue.
And you claim the Palestinians can’t handle that? Why not? Why are you so contemptuous of their abilities?