I among others stand up for women’s rights and against sexism. According to Jeremy Stangroom this makes us bullies, and people will die because of our bullying.
Bullying is bad and people do die. Crazy terrorists also drive planes into buildings. And other bad things happen. If you disagree with what someone is doing or the way they are doing it, the way to express that is to refer to one of those bad things … bullies, terrorists, perhaps even Hitler, and link the person to that bad thing. That is one way to make an argument.
But is is not a very intelligent way to do it. It’s kind of a five-year-old way to do it. I’m not sure who Jeremy Stangroom is or what he does for a living but I sure hope it does not require very much in the way of intellectual maturity and intelligence.
Oh, wait, he’s a Philosopher. He writes philosophy books. Huh. I took four graduate seminars in philosophy in graduate school, but otherwise I’ve not studied it much. I must have missed the historical and critical treatment of the “Nuh nuh nyah nuh nuh, pants of fire” school of thought.
Jeremy Stangroom@PhilosophyExp: …the bullies at FreeThought Blogs run the risk of precipitating a tragedy. Bullying ruins – and sometimes ends – lives. #bullies
Greg@Gregladen: @PhilosophyExp What do you mean by this tweet?
Jeremy Stangroom ?@PhilosophyExp: .@gregladen Taking a break from bullying people, are we? #fuckoff
Greg@Gregladen: @PhilosophyExp I’m asking you to explain your outrageous statement. Can you do that please?
Yes, I’m feeling a little cross today. I wonder why.
Have you read the breakthrough novel of the year? When you are done with that, try:
or Paperback
*Please note:
Links to books and other items on this page and elsewhere on Greg Ladens' blog may send you to Amazon, where I am a registered affiliate. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases, which helps to fund this site.
IIRC, Stangroom was the architect of the short-lived project to document bad Gnu Atheist behaviors, i.e. cases where atheists were needlessly “strident” and made unfair inflammatory statements. I actually gave him some credit at the time, for finally putting his money where so many mouths have been, and doing more than just vaguely gesturing at unspecified people “being dicks”. Of course, last time I checked he only had like three posts on the topic, and two of them were regarding incidents that happened years ago. Maybe he’s fleshed it out by now…
Jeremy Stangroom is one of those shitweasel philosophers who has been on a tear over the last few years about Gnu Atheism, mostly based on a lack of deference to philosophy quacks like himself. He actually wrote a book with Ophelia Benson, but at some point he lost the plot and became some sort of weird tone-troll/rage-troll hybrid. He seems to alternate between complaining that Gnus are too rude, and being more rude than any Gnu has ever been.
I had never heard of the guy until he told me I was about to kill someone.
I actually have one of the books that he co-wrote with Ophelia, but I suspect that Ophelia actually wrote the intelligible parts.
Don’t worry, boss, we got the message.
This Stangroom guy won’t be bothering nobody again.
Who’s next?
FtB Minions
3 books, actually.
Now he’s accusing me among others of driving people to suicide. It’s fucking unbelievable.
I can’t believe that someone would commit seppuku over my calling him a douchebag! I didn’t know I had that kind of power! I don’t want that blood on my hands!!!1
Bullying. Bullying. We’re bullying. By trying to figure out why the president of a big skeptics’ organization accused some women of scaring away women by talking about harassment, we are bullying. Not the president of a big skeptics’ organization who accused some women of scaring away women by talking about harassment; not the people who have been calling various women all sorts of names, including “evil,” ever since; not the people who scream about those women in videos until the veins stand out on their necks; not the people who have been calling the same women cunts and fucking bitches for a year; no; just us.
Erm, I don’t see what’s wrong with him suggesting bullying is wrong and/or dangerous. Given that up till him disagreeing with you, you thought he was OK, could it be that you should take hs points more seriously?
You folks are “bullying” the same way that gay kids are bullying fundamentalist Christians by existing out of the closet, and the way women are bullying the Catholic Church by using their insurance to buy birth control. It is lovely to see so-called skeptics using the exact same false victim tactics as the theists.
” 72% of women believe that torture is sometimes morally justified. ”
http://www.philosophyexperiments.com/
because “72% of women have heard of Jeremy Stangroom”?
I thought Stangroom was against misogyny? Is he one of those people like J.J. Ramsey, who’s capable of reason, but is completely eaten up by bitterness?
Yes I kind of thought Stangroom was against misogyny too!
It’s all rather puzzling.
This was right before Stangroom blasted Emery Emery for yelling by proxy at a blogger who is out as suicidal, right? Right?
The things (and people) people will use as political wedges really grosses me out sometimes.
Eaten by bitterness, or brain worms, or something. Certainly, after a weekend of people over at Pharyngula baring their private pain over rape and sexual assault in response to victim-blaming cretins, the idea of Stangroom calling FtB the bullies in this situation is pretty damned sick.
Do we know if he has seem the great penis head debate ?
It would seem there are others out there more than happy to call ftb more than just bullies. Like ascended femi-nazi aka #feminazgul.
https://twitter.com/radicalidealist/status/214830046907604993
No idea who this @radicalidealist is, but his conversation with @suzybrown is just another brick in the wall as far as I’m concerned.
They’re happy to make straw arguments about being hit on and being offended over nothing. I’m still trying to figure out where they’re getting the idea that people having this discussion about harassment are equating harassment with flirting. Do they really not know the difference between the two? When someone says harassment do they automatically assume it’s NOT harassment, but flirting and that harassment is being blown out of proportion?
I must be missing a piece of the puzzle in their logic.
Yet another reason why I will never willingly read him ever again.
Your loss, Jeremy. I buy a lot of books.
Not from you.
Ralph, I had no idea who he was before he accused us of killing people. He’s not suggesting that bulling is dangerous. He’s suggesting that women and their allies who get fed up with sexual harassment at conferences and ask for appropriate policies be put in place, who are then blamed for their own being sexually harrassed, asking for that to not happen,are being bullies. Which is absurd.
Ophelia [14] It is puzzling. Has Stangroom been a TAM speaker? Does he work for any organization that is funded by JREF? Just curious.
Stephanie [16] Exactly.
I find myself being forced toward the conclusion that they really don’t. Which is kinda sad, really…
Timid @19: Someone pulled the ‘flirting is not harassment!’ thing on me on FB a couple of weeks ago in reference to the recent talk about harassment at conferences. Er, whoever said it was? But apparently the idea that Rebecca W and FTB are claiming that ‘flirting is harassment’ is going around in certain boards/blogs, which frankly I would rather not check out since I need to hold on to my remaining brain cells as long as possible.
It is a version of “Guys don’t do that” = “I’ve been raped!” and is little more than the effluence of small minds and rotten hearts.
So it’s this guy? I’ll just repost this here…
” …the bullies at FreeThought Blogs run the risk of precipitating a tragedy. Bullying ruins – and sometimes ends – lives. #bullies”
Wow… as someone who was actually bullied to the point of near suicide, who knows what the word actually means, I would like to kindly ask the human filth who chose to trivialize that experience by conflating it with their petty little feud with FTB to please…please go fuck a light socket.
Just wondering – has anyone heard anything from Grothe lately? Could it be that he’s finding reasonable criticism too hard to take? It’s the only explanation I can think of that would begin to explain these allegations of bullying. Not that it would justify the allegations.
Greg [21] – no. I think it’s an expanded vendetta against me more than anything else. He also thought I was “bullying” Chris Mooney (by asking him some reasonable questions about the accusations in Unscientific American and in blog posts), and disputing his accusations in various media outlets in the months after that. I think this is chapter eleventy seven of that.
But apparently the idea that Rebecca W and FTB are claiming that ‘flirting is harassment’ is going around in certain boards/blogs…
Even though she has said clearly and more than once that she’s all for flirting and that flirting is what you do instead of cornering people in elevators to say “want to come to my hotel room for coffee?” at 4 a.m.
She said it again on the video, if I remember correctly.
Total side note here, I remember when Stangroom started that little ill-fated project about attempting to document bad gnu atheist behaviors, a number of commenters (at Pharyngula especially) were rather amused with themselves at some unkind puns on his name. That is bullying, and we ought not to do that.
I see none of that here, though, so carry on! 🙂
I think bullying implies a power differential. As a published author and perceived scholarly authority, he has more, not less, than the average commenter.
Azkyroth, I’m not so sure about that, although power may contribute to the effectiveness of the bullying. Think slimepit. Are they not bullying?
I think that is correct. The powerful can bully but very often, the bully bullies because of lack of power. This is why standing up to bullies on the Middle School playground almost always equals rapid successs. (Except when it doesn’t, of course). Bullies are usually afraid of something and that can usually be easily identified by examining what they are bullying about.
The slimepit members are generally highly privileged and immersed in an immediate social environment that is highly supportive of their bullshit. I would say that represents a power differential, though perhaps my definition should be expanded to “seeking to establish one.” I don’t think mockery is inherently bullying, though, as the commenter I was responding to suggests.
I suppose that by Stangroom’s standards, making an “It Gets Better” video counts as bullying the poor teenage homophobes.
“In targetting people who are likely vulnerable, who likely do not have large support networks, and who perhaps have mental health issues, the bullies at FreeThought Blogs run the risk of precipitating a tragedy. Bullying ruins – and sometimes ends – lives.”
The statement is correct, but continue on your merry ways and continue casting dispersions, complaining, and shaking your angry fist at the heavens. I’m sure it will get you somewhere.
Correct in what way?
WON’T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE
CHILDRENSEXUAL PREDATORS?!(Yes, sexual harassers are predators. Fuck off with the “social ineptitude” bullshit; us actually socially inept people are SICK TO DEATH of it).
Thank you Jason for correcting my ignorance, it is an unfortunate habit that causes my fingers to type what I may know otherwise is wrong. I will blame it on myself rather than admitting it was inculcated by the idiocy of my peers.
To move forward: knowing what I do (having lurked on this site for a while) about this site, your response means that my comment is wholly invalidated by that misuse. This is the school of ‘Nanny nanny boo boo’, I assume, and I will accept it. Also, lest it be missed, I will call myself “A selfish misogynistic idiot” before we proceed to spare your generosity further.
Now I will reiterate the relevant portion with the correction and hope that you will be generous enough to apply it to the main comment and then find another part to invalidate:
“The statement is correct, but continue on your merry ways and continue casting
dispersionsaspersions, complaining, and shaking your angry fist at the heavens. I’m sure it will get you somewhere.”Then again, there isn’t much meat to comment on in that, other than “His statement is correct, and you are whining about it”, so feel free to ignore it as you see fit. Though I daresay internet trolls can’t help their inability to ignore, as noted by my presence and your likely response.
it is an unfortunate habit that causes my fingers to type what I may know otherwise is wrong.
I don’t think its a habit. I think its a form of something-lexia. People who do not have this don’t understand at all.
I’m still wondering what part of who’s statement is correct and in what way. For now I’ll assume that “His” refers to me, the blogger who write the post above. I’m glad you agree with me!
Thanks for your comment.
@Nobody – You wrote a five paragraph response to a correction comment, even lamenting its lack of meat, and completely ignore the meaty question from Greg. Answer the question, Nobody.
Um. So. You’re admitting that your “peers”, who (apparently) are in favor of harassing women at conferences, have mental health issues? And you’re taking responsibility for your ideas instead of blaming their idiocy?
Well, I can get behind that! Misogyny and projection are definitely issues of mental health, so maybe your buds would consider getting some help with that.
Love it!