This happened:
“A bill passed last month by the Indiana Senate that would have allowed schools to teach religious stories of creation along with the theory of evolution when discussing the origins of life in science class is dead,” according to the Indianapolis Star’s education blog (February 14, 2012). The bill in question is Senate Bill 89. As originally submitted, SB 89 provided, “The governing body of a school corporation may require the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life, including creation science, within the school corporation.” On January 30, 2012, however, it was amended in the Senate to provide instead, “The governing body of a school corporation may offer instruction on various theories of the origin of life. The curriculum for the course must include theories from multiple religions, which may include, but is not limited to, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Scientology.”
… Then it died in the house.
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I believe both sides should have equal time in the class room or remove both from the curriculum. I also find it funny that the most common ad on your website is for the website MN for Marriage. Bravo in deciding money is more valuable than your beliefs.
Dan-O:
-Both sides of what? Evolution, which has been proven, over and over again, explains the diversity of life on the planet. It doesn’t explain the origin of life on the planet. Creationism is the unscientific attempt to explain the origin of life on the planet: god did it. It can’t be falsified. It can’t be tested. It isn’t science. It’s a belief held by some religions. Until proponents of creationism/ID have *real* science to back up their belief, their creation story has no place in public schools.
Also, I find it amusing that you refer to this as ‘both sides’. Never mind that evolution and creationism aren’t on opposite sides (again the former is about the diversity of life, while the latter is about the origin of life), there are a *lot* of creation stories among the world religions (remember, christianity isn’t the only religion that currently exists; nor is it the only religion practiced by Americans). To properly introduce creationism into public school curriculum, teachers would have to present *all* creation stories and give them equal time. If they only present ID/creationism, that displays a clear bias on the part of the US government for one specific religion. In case you didn’t know, that’s unconstitutional and a direct violation of the First Amendment:
-Creationism can be taught in a theology class.
It can be taught in a mythology class.
It can be taught in a comparative religion class.
It *cannot* be taught in a biology class.
In America today, public school children are indoctrinated in the theory of evolution. They are taught that evolution is a fact, and they are not allowed to be taught any opposing viewpoints such as creation science or intelligent design. This kind of indoctrination might be OK if evolution were true and supported by the scientific facts. However, the facts of science show just the contrary. The facts of science show unequivocally that the theory of evolution is false.
The theory of evolution consists of two basic beliefs. The first belief of evolution is that, once upon a time, chemicals came together to form a living cell. The second belief of evolution is that this first living cell then evolved into all of the life forms that we have on earth today. When these beliefs are examined in the light of science, however, it is clear that both of them are false.
I have still do not see my reply posted from an hour ago?
What I think would be a geat solution to this whole issue, is if we made sure that at the beginning of the semester, science teachers devoted the first couple of days or so to teaching their students what *exactly* science is, and more importantly, what it is not. Teach them the fundamental assumptions of science, i.e. the Universe is understandable, natural phenomena have natural causes, etc. etc.. Teach them exactly what the scientific method is, how it is used, and how to recognize theories that don’t rely on it. And for that matter, teach what the scientific meaning of the word “theory” is too. If every science teacher did that, then I think their students would be more than capable of seeing through creation science for the bunk that it is. But I also like the idea of teaching the creation myths of every religion or culture. It totally exposes the specifically Christian indoctrination of our kids that these people want. Dan Dennett has a similar idea. I think most readers of this blog would be familiar with it. Interesting post, thanks.
Dan-O:
-the above is wikipedia’s definition of indoctrination. Your comments display a lack of awareness of what the word means. Religious beliefs are inculcated in children. After all, for a large number of Americans, their children go to church practically from birth. This is done at a young age before children develop the critical thinking skills to question the falsehoods religions treat as true. Religious beliefs involve indoctrination.
-As evolution is a scientific fact, it makes perfect sense to teach evolution in school. Creationism (which is the same thing as ID, just repackaged and renamed) is *not* scientific. It’s a religious belief. You cannot teach a religious belief in science classes in US public schools. As I’ve already mentioned, that’s a violation of the First Amendment. Perhaps you haven’t read the Constitution of the United States recently. I recommend doing so, as it may clear up some of your misconceptions.
Also, as I’ve said, creationism is NOT an opposing view to evolution. Evolution deals in the diversity of life on the planet. Diversity does not mean ‘origin’. Creationism deals with the origin of life through the wholly unscientific claim ‘god did it’.
-This is almost laughable. You’ve come to Freethought Blogs talking about how evolution is false. Science reigns here. Not false religious beliefs.
By the way, when you make bold assertions like “…the theory of evolution is false.” , you’re not going to convince anyone unless you present facts backed up by citations. No one is going to take your claims seriously without providing access to this information to read on their own.
Oh, and yes, evolution is supported by scientific facts.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=46
http://www.nas.edu/evolution/FAQ.html
and
http://humanorigins.si.edu/
You can learn about evolution at any of these sites, as well as many, many others. You seem to have been misinformed about evolution and need to be properly educated. That’s the problem with religions providing education. When you’re indoctrinated from such a young age, it’s massively difficult to develop the proper critical thinking skills to overcome the child abuse that is religious thought.
Sorry for the delayed reply I rented a movie last night called Rise of the Planet of the Apes (2011) so I could get a better understanding of my relatives. I am glad to say that at the end of the movie the main ape named Caesar did speak so I AM NOW A BELIEVER. I thought the ending was a little weak but it allows of course for a sequel. I will give it two thumbs up in case you were wondering.
I was raised in a very normal Christian family. In fact I had numerous friends that said they wished his/her parents were both like mine in that they were involved in my extracurricular activities such as sports, cub scouts then boy scouts, camping, fishing and last of all were still married after 51 years until one passed away. A good percentage of my friends had divorced parents who I believe did not understand that a marriage does not come easy and that you have to work at it so it will flourish and succeed. I know this as I have now been married 12 years myself. I also believe that due to there lack of faith this was actually one of the areas that could have helped them though the tough times. Funny thing is their parents are now religious people and happily remarried and still together.
In regards to me being unintelligent or just following my parents, I have a B.S. in Economics and decided after my graduation it was time to make money and not spend more (on school that is). I am currently Director of Sales and Operations for a large company based in MN. You are correct that my childhood was based on following my parent’s beliefs but in college I changed and even started voting for non-conservatives and decided I would find out for myself. Irregardless (I figure if Tony can quote Wikipedia so can I for the word irregardless as Wikipedia must be the holy grail of knowledge) of my college days and thoughts when I was in my thirties, got married and had my first child I said there has to me more to life than this blink of an eye time we are on this planet. I started attending several churches until I found one where I felt at home and they had the answers I was looking for about life, happiness, honesty, marriage, compassion, and freedom. Now in no way am I saying that if you are not a conservative you can not be all those things but I do believe you are more likely to follow them if you are a chirstian.
Similar to Global Warming vs. Global Cooling and Evolution vs. Creationism there will be just as many people on the opposing sides with FACTS to back it up. Whether you say you say your FACTS are better than mine I really do not care to be honest. Here is a listing of a few Creation sites with plenty of ammo.
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
http://www.vedicsciences.net/articles/darwin-debunked.html
http://www.michaelfitzcharles.com/index_015.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100516105331AAan1s5
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=2236
http://www.vjsingh.info/evorel.html
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/science-technology/22679-officially-debunking-evolution-without-mentioning-god.html
http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUpxHwLxmq8
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/printthread.php?threadid=222418
On a positive note glad to see your biggest advertiser is http://www.MNforMarriage.com. Glad to see your blog has decided money is more important than your beliefs. Bravo!
Dan-o –
Poe’s get better and better. You almost had me.
Tony, you wrote that
I agree entirely with you that it’s not a two-sided coin; you demonstrate this with the second part. I’m not sure I agree with you on evolution and the Christian Creation story: Both discuss origins. In Genesis much space is given to what order God made various forms of life … and there’s no real explanation of how God did it. It’s an argument whose subtlety is lost on most Creationists.
Dan-o, I suspect you’ve been told many times, by people who know even more about it than I do, all the myriad ways in which what you wrote is wrong. Even just now, Tony explained that Creationism (and Intelligent Design) are religious beliefs; they’re based on ancient stories made up by shepherds. Contrary to what you write, there’s no evidence whatsoever to back them up.
“The first belief of evolution is that, once upon a time, chemicals came together to form a living cell.” is a vast oversimplification that shows how much you don’t know about what scientists investigating abiogenesis are thinking.
“The second belief of evolution is that this first living cell then evolved into all of the life forms that we have on earth today.” is another glossing-over of what evolution really is. If that passes for a summary for you, then you don’t understand what the theory of evolution holds.
You wrote about indoctrination. It seems to me that you’d prefer it if, at government expense, children in public schools were indoctrinated into your specific kind of Christian belief. That means they should be taught what the Bible says and accept it without asking for evidence. You seem to want kids to be just as ignorant as you are about biology, abiogenesis, and evolution.
It strikes me that I’m being unfair in characterizing you as ignorant. Perhaps you do understand these subjects better than you let on. In that case, you’re deliberately and skillfully misrepresenting the theories and evidence. You’re also hoping no one notices that you have made some outrageous claims about what science doesn’t know, hoping that people will just accept what you’re saying on some kind of authority.
But since you either don’t understand the science or willfully lie about it, you are in no position to make any statements about it. Do you think Jesus is proud of the way you’re lying on his behalf?
Ah, for the old days, when the subject in Science class was always science.
Perhaps they should have passed the Bill. Kids are smart these days. They would have laughed themselves silly when they saw the comparrison.
dan-o, it was in the spam bin for some reason (lots of links maybe?) Thanks for letting me know, I’ve freed it up.
Thank you Greg. I didn’t think it was being sensored but you never know.
I meant censored.