All the police are trying to do is to serve and protect.

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62 thoughts on “All the police are trying to do is to serve and protect.

  1. Many years ago, my elder brother returned to Canada from Harvard, where he had gone on scholarship to do an LLB. (He completed the degree quickly, saying “Those people down there really do think they are smarter than anybody else.”) He drove across the border at Niagara Falls, stopped by the first cop he saw, got out and hugged him. Cop said “wtf?” or words to that effect.

    Some years later, I drove across that same border, returning from doing my PhD in California. I did the same. Another bewildered Canadian cop.

    Having said that-my interactions with the police, in both countries, have been cordial and polite. But then, I am not black.

    Those clips are truly horrifying.

  2. Derekchauvinism is a disease that afflicts too many in the police force.

    But please, can we balance this with respectful acknowledgment of the many police in dozens of cities who joined with the protesters to take a knee in memory of George Floyd?

    1. But the subtract times ten the ones that took the knee for publicity then put on their gear and attacked protesters right after, or so it is said.

    2. Any cop who knelt in apparent support of black US Americans, and then proceeded to brutalise protesters, whether black, white, or brindle, deserves censure for their bad behaviour. I still think though that it’s important to emphasise that some cops do their darnedest to support their citizenry, and that defunding is not about abolishing police but restructuring so that they properly do policing work as opposed to family counseling, mental health work, or similar.

      Without being clear that not all police are under attack, but rather that the target is a disfunctional culture permeating the force (and much else of US society…), progressive activists risk giving the fundamentalist lawrinorder conservatives a platform to claim that “socialists” are aiding and abetting criminals. And that’s a lever to influence swinging voters.

    1. How should police be treating these people?

      Justin Hart for balanced commentary, I don’t think so.

  3. Perhaps they were being arrested for not maintaining social distancing.
    Like with police everywhere else, they are again failing to maintain the distancing while doing their arresting.

    1. Re: MikeN “they are again failing to maintain the distancing while doing their arresting.”
      =
      Why are you surprised Mike? This kind of flouting of commonsense rules to slow the spread of Covid-19 has been modeled all through the pandemic by the impeached President and his minions and enablers, even though, when he thought it was a good propaganda stunt, this same President had a list including the very same rules he routinely ignores put out for the public. Even then he left it up to the individual’s discretion (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) thus undermining its usefulness for protecting the general public.

  4. More police protecting and serving. /snark

    https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2020/06/03/asheville-protests-mostly-peaceful-ends-tear-gas-after-curfew-george-floyd/3130666001/?fbclid=IwAR0ckNm6t2RiDEQ_F5RUpAiMNciQkI6TEps0B45xbE0OhGdiCnGFpCNXwAI&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

    The last several decades have seen two things rising in common: the move from training police to de-escalate incidents to escalating incidents, and the ramp up in arming them with military grade weapons.

    1. Re: dean “The last several decades have seen two things rising in common: the move from training police to de-escalate incidents to escalating incidents, and the ramp up in arming them with military grade weapons.”

      Which runs in parallel with the pressure for a wider range of “Second Amendment rights” fronted by the NRA upper administration, and some but not all of its members and a range of gun “enthusiasts”, and backed by the manufacturers and sellers of armaments and the extreme right wing. By “wider range” I include unfettered access to the latest military weapons from rifles on up, and the “right” to carry such weaponry openly in public. As we’ve seen recently, this was on display, for example, in the attempt to bully the governor of Michigan into rescinding the rules for protecting the public during the coronavirus pandemic.

    1. Yes, the flu-klux-klan (as they were called here in MI) protesting in Lansing and other michigan cities was amazingly white, racist (slurs on signs, confederate flags on parade), lowlifes. The first big protest involved them assuring their republican supporters in the state house that they “would obey social distancing and would not disrupt traffic”. They congregated in crowds, parked in the streets, and blocked closed two entrances to Sparrow Hospital, which is not far from the state capitol building.

      This article in Buzzzfeed does an excellent job of displaying the differences between the anti-lock down white folks and people protesting for a decent life.

      https://www.buzzfeed (dot) com/daves4/white-privilege-black-lives-matter-protest?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

  5. “Risk of COVID-19 is higher at dark. They were merely enforcing the curfew. Safety first.”

    We were waiting for some asshole to defend the indefensible. It was 50/50 whether you or rickA would chime in first.

    Meanwhile, they continue:

    https://www.kxan.com/investigations/street-medic-hurt-while-trying-to-help-protester-who-was-injured-by-apd-bean-bag-round/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

    https://twitter.com/David_Leavitt/status/1268909614323634176

    1. If they can shutdown schools, businesses, churches over a pandemic, then they can shut down a protest too. Especially one that is not remotely close to following the guidelines.
      Wasn’t it NYPD that put a woman in the subway on the ground for not wearing her mask properly?

  6. If they can shutdown schools, businesses, churches over a pandemic, then they can shut down a protest too. Especially one that is not remotely close to following the guidelines.
    Wasn’t it NYPD that put a woman in the subway on the ground for not wearing her mask properly?

    The amount of stupidity and false equivalence in that comment is astounding. You really put a lot of rational thought avoiding effort into it.

  7. Re: Lionel A “Police are out of control, thugs in uniform.”
    =
    And once again a major instigator of this kind of behavior is the impeached president who uses words like “dominate” when referring to dealing with U. S. citizens demonstrating. He really is mesmerized by the example of Putin and Russia. It’s showing more and more as he moves from one blunder to the next.

  8. “If they can shutdown schools, businesses, churches over a pandemic, then they can shut down a protest too. Especially one that is not remotely close to following the guidelines.”

    Protecting people from a disease is not the same as harming peaceful protesters — although like rickA it’s easy to understand why you don’t mind police violence against the current marchers, given what they’re protesting about.

    “Wasn’t it NYPD that put a woman in the subway on the ground for not wearing her mask properly?”

    Yes, sort of: they asked her to wear her mask on the subway, escorted her off, she hit an officer, and he over-reacted. Amazing how once again you remove the details that don’t fit your narrative. Odd, given than you are supporting police over-reaction in every other post you make.

    No — it’s not amazing at all — you seem to be learning to send dishonest messages from rickA’s examples.

    1. If you want to protect them from a disease, you probably have to break up the protest.
      Or are you in this group?
      “As public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission…This should not be confused as a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-at-home orders.”
      Does the virus back off on protests against police brutality?

    2. You are a master of asking questions that are based on your bigoted assumptions. Nobody with a functioning ability to reason thinks for 1 second the police abuses are done simply to protect people from the virus, as you are laughably using as a justification for violence.

      Yes, if you read “grown up” reporting you’ll find that people are concerned about spikes in numbers occurring. That doesn’t justify the things the police are doing.

      You do know numbers are spiking in Alabama after the moron there opened the state? They are in Florida too — and it seems that Florida’s govt has been hiding numbers all along by listing deaths as due to the flu (flu related reported there are far higher than the long term average).

      The myth that you morons push (well, one of them, since you push so many) about the virus not being serious is dangerous and loathsome.

    1. Interesting, there is no depth they wont plumb.

      And the Law enforcement officer’s excuse for puncturing tyres on two vehicles is..?

  9. >done simply to protect people from the virus

    Of course not. However, perhaps police should be used to break up these protests to prevent dangerous spread of the coronavirus.

    >The myth that you morons push (well, one of them, since you push so many) about the virus not being serious is dangerous and loathsome.

    It is people like Gov Whitmer who is relaxing rules for the protests that is sending the idea the virus is not serious.
    I don’t see how to combine the idea the virus is serious with allowing so many people in close proximity(not depicted in the closeups in the buzzfeed pictures you linked).
    There are a couple of ways-
    1) Outdoors is low risk.
    I don’t think this works for protests with close proximity and singing and yelling. The main case of kids spreading the disease was a choir practice.
    2) People involved are young and not likely to be at serious risk.
    They could still spread it to others who are high risk. If asymptomatic spread is unlikely(recent NIH study), then this is reasonable.
    3) It’s not a matter of the government allowing things.
    Then get rid of the other rules too.

  10. It’s been reported that the FBI briefed the impeached President, telling him that there was no evidence that “antifa” had played any role in or had even been present at any of the violent, destructive parts of the protests triggered by the slow-motion murder of George Floyd by the police.* This, naturally, did not stop the I.P. from once again asserting powers he doesn’t have and saying that he was going to have it on the list as a “terrorist organization” as if it actually existed and posed a threat to order.

    Trump, May 31st: “The United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization.”

    So the seemingly never-ending search for scapegoats for Trump-made, instigated, or worsened problems and disasters goes on. Just make one up if there isn’t any convenient and easily targeted (supposedly left-wing) scapegoat available.

    * The briefing is not available but there is an internal FBI report which was obtained by The Nation that says the same things.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/

  11. “It is people like Gov Whitmer who is relaxing rules for the protests that is sending the idea the virus is not serious.”

    I’m willing to believe you are stupid enough to believe that makes sense. I know you’re dishonest enough to ignore the data based decision making.

    I’m no longer astounded by how fundamentally dishonest you and rickA are.

    1. Re: MikeN “It is people like Gov Whitmer who is relaxing rules for the protests that is sending the idea the virus is not serious.”

      In my opinion, the protestors against the unwarranted killing of people by the police, usually but not always brown and black people, are risking their lives for what we are told is an American ideal: equal justice.

      It is also my opinion that the, often well armed, open-the-country-now protestors who flout the rules adopted for reasons of public safety do so because they actually believe the nonsense the impeached President and right-wing have been ceaselessly spreading about the “exaggerated”dangers of Covid-19 and do not think they are actually risking their lives at all or they wouldn’t do it. People who try to bully unarmed people are bullies and bullies are usually cowards.

      In both cases, the result will be an increase in Covid-19 infection and deaths which could overstress our already wounded and depleted health care system.

    2. Data based decision making would be nice, but not if the data is we have these protests I support. Churches are being banned in California from more than 100 people or 25% capacity, while San Fran is flooded with protesters in the streets.

    3. More data driven decision making:
      Ace Speedway was threatened if they held a race in violation of the governor’s order. They then declared the race was a peaceful protest, and the race went forward with 2000 people in attendance.

    1. My response to mikeN’s comment about ace speedway seems to have vanished.
      The short summary: mikeN is full of his usual shit.

      From Fox 8 news:

      ALAMANCE COUNTY, N.C. — We could find out today if the state will take action after a local racetrack opened its doors to the public for another race, defying Gov. Roy Cooper’s order.
      Cooper’s executive order does not allow for crowds of more than 25 people during this time. There were more than 800 tickets sold to a race at Ace Speedway in Alamance County.
      The stands were full with many people packed in and not wearing face coverings or social distancing, but our crews did see staff doing temperature checks of fans.
      Ace Speedway held its first race back in May and has around 2,000 people in attendance.
      When Cooper caught wind, he called the event “reckless” and “dangerous.”
      Alamance County Sheriff Terry Johnson said he did not cite the owner of the racetrack during the May race because he was unclear of the governor’s wording in the executive order, which allows crowds of more than 25 people for weddings and other events exercising someone’s first amendment rights.
      The owner of the racetrack called Saturday’s event a “Unity Rally with Racing.”
      During the Saturday race, many fans held signs saying, “Racing for rights.”

      From WXII News 12 (a headline: story is essentially the same as above)

      Ace Speedway defies Phase 2 restrictions, holds race under the guise of a ‘peaceful protest’

      Hardly a “data driven” decision, no blessing from the state as he implied — but mikeN is never truthful, so…

  12. Against the background of Impeached President Trump and his main DOJ minion A G Barr preparing the general population for danger from an imaginary left-wing radical group, we have this example from June 6 of how easily fake reports by white supremacists about an imminent antifa invasion can stir up people in smaller towns to arm themselves and get out in the streets to combat such imaginary invaders.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/klamath-falls-oregon-victory-declared-over-antifa-which-never-showed-n1226681?utm_source=pocket-newtab

    Fortunately there was no serious conflict or bloodbath in any of the several places in which the instigators sewed their seeds of hostility, conflict, and division — this time anyway. Nevertheless, it should be a lesson to the American public and Democrats in particular how easily something that seems like a good idea such as peaceful protests can degenerate into something more violent — or be infiltrated by troublemakers set on doing things to discredit the protests and protestors. Any resulting trouble can then be used by right-wingers to further divide the population so that each side ends up viewing the other as an active enemy.

  13. > no blessing from the state as he implied

    When did I imply that? Unless you are under the impression that everything that is not blessed by the state is banned.
    If they hadn’t declared the race a protest, then they would have been stopped/charged.
    The data-driven approach is that something is not allowed, unless it’s a protest, at which point their data I guess tells them the virus will not infect people.

    1. Your dishonest streak is intact. Bravo to you, one of the problems with the country. There was no science in their declaration — just a sheer breaking of the law, so if you were consistent you’d condemn this as well.

      I wonder what the difference between the people involved could be?

  14. Re: MikeN “…perhaps police should be used to break up these protests to prevent dangerous spread of the coronavirus.”
    =
    By now elected officials should know from the country’s past decades of experience that U. S. police can NOT be counted on to “break up” protests without resorting to over-the-top violence up to and including use of lethal force. (To those with weapons, it is easy to think of everyone else as an enemy to be dominated.)

    If Governor Whitmer or Governor Cooper had done what you suggested, you would likely be on this site now bemoaning the infringement of liberty of the people in the crowd and possibly citing it as part of a left-wing move towards tyranny.

    1. Yes, my preferred solution is they relax restrictions on everyone, not that they break up the protests. I would have been mocking them for being upset about the risk of coronavirus spread and not the looting, but at least they would be consistent in treating it as a serious problem. It’ll be hilarious watching the media whine about this when Trump holds a rally again.

  15. Re: MikeN “It’ll be hilarious watching the media whine about this when Trump holds a rally again.”

    I’d be completely satisfied to see all the Trumpkateers gathering around the Impeached President in large numbers and in close quarters if I were sure they wouldn’t afterward infect the rest of us with whatever they have or catch while they’re gathered. If only they could be stamped on the forehead as they entered with some kind of hard-to-remove mark (M A G A, maybe) that would warn the rest of us afterward that they should be kept at a distance.

    The real laughs will come after each event when the I. P.’s latest blather of lies, verbal bullying, and unwarranted self-praise are put on TV and in the newspapers for all to see. He’s become the world’s Bozo and we could all use a laugh.

  16. Re: MikeN “Do you support doing the same with the current protesters?”

    If you are asking me, are you referring to peaceful protestors having a mark on them to warn the rest of us that they were in a situation that greatly increased their chances of becoming infected, or of spreading an infection they already had? If so, then yes. Not that I expect that it will be done.

    If you are referring to laughing at peaceful protestors, then no, I admire people who will put themselves in danger for a worthy reason. (I’ll also note that, based on the fact that similar protests are occurring all over the world, they are not thought of as being clownish in the least.

    The same does not apply to Trumpkateers because (1) I don’t believe they think they are in danger, (2) based on his despicable behavior and incompetence, supporting Trump is not a worthy reason, and (3) he is definitely considered laughable (and probably unhinged) in the eyes of the world.

    1. he is definitely considered laughable (and probably unhinged)

      Later stage syphilis could be a possibility.

    2. You:

      It’ll be hilarious watching the media whine about this when Trump holds a rally again.

      And:

      First consistency I’ve seen from anyone.

      Your unambiguous repudiation of the planned Trump rally in Tulsa is now necessary for you to maintain consistency, MikeN.

      In your next comment on this thread, if you don’t mind.

  17. I would have been mocking them for being upset about the risk of coronavirus spread and not the looting,

    Nobody’s upset about looting? Your purely self-generated falsehoods are becoming more obvious than ever.

  18. BBD, nah. I’d rather they open up for everyone. My posts against the protesters not observing COVID were more jokes, and pointing out hypocrisy in the people who were saying how serious these rules were just weeks ago. They were complaining about people walking on beaches.
    I’ve read in New York, that the rules on distancing in parks were mostly in black areas, while white people were not bothered as they gathered.

    1. Trump’s scum are making the punters sign a fucking waiver stating that they won’t sue if they catch CV at the rally. Your insinuation of hypocrisy is (1) anecdotal and unlinked and (2) false equivalence.

      Where is the condemnation of the Trump rally you need in order to remain consistent with your previous rhetoric?

      Oh, you were ‘only joking’.

      Fuck me, never heard that dodge from a rightwing bullshitter before Mikey.

    2. I’ve read in New York, that the rules on distancing in parks were mostly in black areas, while white people were not bothered as they gathered.

      a) Once again, no reference for where you “read” this, and given your history of blatantly ignoring or misrepresenting the intent of news stories, there needs to be hard verification of that
      b) It is completely believable that African Americans were overly penalized for gathering. Assigning that automatically to the issued guidelines, without the proof requested in ‘a’, is unfounded

      As usual, your comments can’t be taken as reliable.

    3. Re: MikeN “My posts against the protesters not observing COVID were more jokes, and pointing out hypocrisy in the people who were saying how serious these rules were just weeks ago.”
      =
      You are not allowing for the fact that the protestors have an ethical point to their protests; the kind of point which overrides their physical safety in the minds of courageous individuals.

      It is not at all the same kind of dangerous behavior displayed by people who want to congregate in bars, massage parlors, and other venues. It does not have an ethical spur but a “I want to …” spur. No bravery is involved, it is childish bravado or a result of being stupid or gullible enough to take seriously the assurances by serial liar and Impeached President Trump (and his echoers in state governments and Faux News) that the danger of Covid-19 is minimal (“a hoax”, “exaggerated”, “under control”).

      Unlike the I. P., you are intelligent enough to write a coherent sentence and even pose an argument, so why are you falling for his line of crap. There is nothing in it for anyone but himself and his remora.

    4. BBD, nah. I’d rather they open up for everyone.

      Despite the lunacy we are witnessing on both sides of the Atlantic, this isn’t actually a sane option. The lockdowns need to be kept in place long enough for the infection to substantially burn out in the population. Only then can they be lifted without triggering another peak. The right’s relentless pressure to get the tills ringing no matter what is going to create a rolling public health (and economic) catastrophe. It is beyond stupid. It is actually evil.

  19. Trump’s scum are making the punters sign a fucking waiver stating that they won’t sue if they catch CV at the rally.

    Saw that. For most of the losers who go to those rallies signing that will be viewed as a “badge of honor” to get back at “the libs”. For the rest — the chance they’ll read it is the same as the chance they’d read terms of service for Apple, Android, or any other company.

    1. It’ll be interested to see how many are wearing masks at this. Though if it’s outdoors, I wouldn’t bother.

  20. Re: Christopher Winter’s link to Forbes article on police targeting journalists.

    Thanks for posting this. I’m keeping a file. I’m surrounded by people who get their “news” from Faux News or Facebook and I like to have a particular source when they ask “Where did you get that?” in response to a comment I make on one of their assertions. The source for such assertions almost always seems to refer to some imaginary world rather than the one the rest of us live in.

  21. Dean, you are correct. I did not read that the rules were only in black areas, but that the rules were being enforced in black areas, while they showed pictures of white people in another area gathered together, no harassment.

  22. BBD, shutdowns were implemented to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, avoiding deaths from lack of treatment capacity. That has been avoided. Saying we must stay shutdown to eradicate the virus is not reasonable.

    I think the unannounced government policy at this point is to reach herd immunity by opening up slowly.

    I would suggest trying to get as many healthy kids infected before school starts. Let college students back in dorms three weeks early.

    1. Thanks again for showing you have absolutely no understanding of the actions over the virus, and no concern at all that you are ignorant.

      Why are you right wingers so effing stupid? How did you fail education so completely?

    2. BBD, shutdowns were implemented to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, avoiding deaths from lack of treatment capacity. That has been avoided. Saying we must stay shutdown to eradicate the virus is not reasonable.

      As dean says, you don’t understand this. Lockdown has postponed the overwhelming of hospitals but they will be overwhelmed by a second wave of infection triggered by a premature lifting of restrictions. We’ll look at the numbers in a moment.

      The point of lockdown – other than the reactive protection of hospital capacity – is to allow the virus to burn out in the population. That is why just a few weeks more would have made a massive difference.

      I think the unannounced government policy at this point is to reach herd immunity by opening up slowly.

      ‘Herd immunity’ is something epidemiologists normally discuss in the context of a vaccine. Not in the face of a novel virus pandemic.

      Look at the deaths and chaos in the US so far.

      Do the arithmetic:

      US population = 328m

      1% of US population = 3.28m

      CV cases reported in US to date = 2.1m

      Assume under-reporting means this is only 10% of actual US cases so the real total = 21m infections

      Percent of US population infected = 21 000 000 / 3 280 000 = 6.4

      So about *6.4%* of US population infected so far

      At least **93%** still to go.

      This claptrap about ‘herd immunity’ is innumerate and dangerous nonsense.

  23. > the protestors have an ethical point to their protests;

    People who are out of work have an ethical point of wanting things reopened. People wanting to go to bar and restaurants have the ethical point of giving money to the employees there vs having them laid off.

    However, the hypocrisy I point out is not on the part of the protesters, who have every right to calculate their risk level, but on the government that passes these guidelines and enforces them on people.

    1. ” People wanting to go to bar and restaurants have the ethical point of giving money to the employees there vs having them laid off. ”

      God what an ass. People who whine that they want to go out and get a drink or get a haircut don’t give a rat’s ass about the people who do the work.

    2. Re: MikeN “. . . the hypocrisy I point out is not on the part of the protesters, who have every right to calculate their risk level, but on the government that passes these guidelines and enforces them on people.”

      1) It is not just individual’s personal risk that needs to be considered in the case of a transmissible virus. It is the risk to other people. I’ve already stated why I think protestors and Trump supporters are different in this respect.

      People who are out of work also want to be — and I say have a right to be — safe when they go back to work (or school for that matter). and they don’t want to be infecting their families when they come home. (Broad surveys support my view here and so does the opinion of my family members who are out of work or school at this time.) They certainly don’t want to be sacrificed on the alter of “economics” or “herd immunity” developed from sickness or death rather than a vaccine.

      2) There are other ways, including governmental ways,* to deal with our economic problems and tide people over during this pandemic. Trump and Senate Republicans have so far refused to use them fully but they are available.
      For example, the parts of the Federal government under Republican control have done essentially nothing to make workplaces (or schools) safer, if necessary by law. Instead, the Trump administration made its Covid-19 guidelines weak, vague, and optional for the meatpacking industry. The result is that in many cases all or nearly all workers are or have been infected, infection has spread into the (usually) small towns housing the plants and, worse, farther away. This, of course, caused the limited health care facilities in the immediate vicinity of the plants to be rapidly overstressed. Some corporations promised then reneged on their promise to test all their employees and, without enforcement, nothing could or was done about it.

      * I’m sure you can think of and/or look up some other of these ways.

      3) It is a simple fact that all human societies enforce their laws and regulations. People are by nature social beings, not each a law unto him/herself. The relevant questions for people in democracies (or quasi-democracies like the U. S.) is: Are these laws and regulations necessary for the maintenance of the society, reasonable, fair, and subject to popular support.

  24. Some police in the US should be in jail not roaming the streets shooting people for the hell of it as the record of some shows:

    Vallejo police officers have killed 19 people since 2010, one of the highest rates in the state. The officer who shot Monterrosa, Detective Jarrett Tonn, has been involved in four shootings in five years. He’s one of 14 Vallejo policemen whom residents and activists call the “Fatal 14” – officers who have repeatedly shot and killed citizens and never faced consequences.

    Source.

    Your excuse for these trigger happy tools is ………. MikeN?

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