Bloviating Morons Will Bloviate: Trump and Giuliani

As a logical person seeking an understanding of what happened with the election, the Trump campaign, all of that, there is one piece of information that led me, long ago, to strongly suspect that there was an arrangement made between Trump and his campaign, the Russians, and Wikileaks (and possibly other intermediaries).

This was when two people with inside information told us that this was happening. These two individuals told us that information that we later learned was stolen by Russian agents and distributed via WikiLeaks and other means would be used to affect the outcome of the election.

The first instance was a bit vague, but it was repeated several times and in retrospect, this is strongly suggestive. Here:

The second was not vague at all and is very clear, considering what was said, when it was said, and what happened:

I’m not claiming this is court admisible evidence. But then again, I’m not a court. I’m a person. When I see these two sets of comments, knowing what happened, I see this as very strong evidence that the alleged arrangement was not only real, but emerged as a strategy, from an internal discussion among the campaign personnel, including Trump.

Both of these men are blowhards and morons.

This raises one historically interesting question.

Giuliani is well known for having successfully carried out one of the most difficult and intense investigations and prosecutions ever, shutting down powerful NY mafia families. But looking at his recent incriminating bloviating, one has to wonder. Was Giuliani taking credit he did not deserve? Has he lost part of his self control or reasoning, lowering his capacity to think and communicate to Trumpian levels?

No matter, really. We should probably not be looking a gift horse in the mouth. Long live Rudy Giuliani as Trump’s lawyer!

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119 thoughts on “Bloviating Morons Will Bloviate: Trump and Giuliani

  1. Giuliani has always been an attention seeking no-substance hack, so this isn’t any surprise. His admission that Trump actually repaid Cohen (despite Trump’s emphatic admission that he didn’t know about the Cohen’s actions and had never paid him for it) is just another consequence of the lack of organization in Trump’s White House.

    I don’t know how the collusion investigation will pan out. I do know that only an idiot, or someone committed to his or her previous lies, will deny that Russia had hands all over the internet with fake messages against President Obama and HRC — especially since we now know that they were a major force behind the Jade Helm “Obama is going to declare martial law here in Texas” bullshit that the right ate up. If that fact doesn’t worry those people — well, we know Trump supporters don’t care about protecting the country’s voting integrity, only about “protecting” it from their favorite boogeymen: women, minorities, and immigrants. If Russia helps with that, so be it.

  2. Giuliani’s siting of NYC’s Emergency Response center inside a complex that had already been struck by terrorists was a work of a complete idiocy. Not providing 9/11 rescue and recovery workers with proper respiratory equipment was another disqualifying move by “America’s Mayor”, or some other idiot perception shaper, maybe in the Bush cabinet. Either way, that stupid failure cost many fine people their lives. Not providing NYC police and fire services with adequate radio equipment was another devastating fuck up under Rudy, and it too cost lives.

    Perhaps he was the perfect DA to put a crime family out of business, but I’m not sure what transferable skills that affords him at anything else. He is a first class, evil prick, who, like Trump, doesn’t seem to have any idea of how to act in environments that aren’t testosterone driven. It is a blessing for democracy that he and Trump have linked up again, but I suspect that Trump can’t afford too many more embarrassments this week, so Rudy better learn how to contain his sadistic fascist glee and keep his aging yellow choppers out of sight.

  3. Giuliani was talking about hacked e-mails but the ones on Hillary’s server. Comey’s letter reopening the case was a few days later, with the decision already made at that point. The NYPD and SDNY FBI were telling Giuliani what was going on with the Hillary e-mails found on Weiner’s laptop. The secret that the country doesn’t know about Loretta Lynch that Comey writes about in his book was I think that Lynch was threatening to prosecute NYPD over the Eric Garner case if they didn’t play ball on the laptop. Lynch replaced the NY DOJ prosecutors the same day Giuliani gave this interview, and Erik Prince would reveal the Eric Garner connection in an interview around then. The IG’s report on Andy McCabe mentions Eric Garner for no apparent reason.
    If you look at the text messages that have been released, there is one bombshell the media has ignored- Weiner’s attorney handed over the e-mails to DOJ. Comey talking about getting a warrant doesn’t make sense.

  4. And now Lisa Page has announced her resignation. The team that was spying on Trump and arranging an insurance policy in case he wins is slowly being taken out. James Baker, Rybicki, Lisa Page, Sally Yates, all fired or resigned along with Mike Kortan fired after issuing without authorization an FBI statement that the Nunes memo is damaging to national security.

  5. Is there no stupid ass conspiracy that’s too stupid for you mikeN?

    And back to nunes, the master of nothing? You do know that after he demanded the Justice Department records he never read them? He is as empty and dishonest as you are.

    Get off the “illegal spying on Trump” stuff, and get over the emails from HRC. The fact that you don’t like the conclusion of the investigation doesn’t negate the fact that there was one, and there wasn’t anything to prosecute. I know you are a fan of making up crimes by those you don’t like (and ignoring the ones by people you like) but that doesn’t mean shit. It does continue your record of never making a comment that is fact based, so at least you have that.

  6. I suppose it is a fact free comment. All those people haven’t quit or been fired.

    I was wrong about the fact that Lynch replaced the prosecutors the same day as this speech by Giuliani. It was the day before.
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/justice-department-review-means-eric-garner-case/story?id=43085124

    I’m surprised Greg didn’t bring up Roger Stone’s statement about Podesta, the other out of context report that’s been popular(He said Podestas time in the barrel, referring to their links with Manafort).

    1. That is, he didn’t say ‘Podesta’s time in the barrel’ but ‘Podestas’ time in the barrel’ referring to John’s brother as well. Podesta Group was involved in these matters.

  7. And dnow Trump has given s speech in which he played terrorists shooting people. I am waiting to see how the ignorant sheep on the right defend this latest bit of asshattery by the shitwad in chief.

  8. Will the Trump base, as a group, ever tire of his incessant lying? His deceit and treachery in service of his own selfish goals are starting to wear on even some of his most ardent supporters.

    Trump is amazingly consistent in doing almost whatever it is that is in Putin’s best interest. Take climate change. Everything about climate change, from fossil fuel economics, to the opening of northern ports and lands, makes Putin an advocate for ignoring the science on climate change. Or take race relations in America. What would Putin like better than to have the mixed race reactor of humanity’s best hopes and dreams collapse into more and more race inequity?

    A side note to any and all racist in the audience. Anyone who thinks that their particular nationalist sub species is the best and brightest of all time in all criterion is a fucking idiot. Steve Bannon and Steven MIller are not the vanguard of some master race. They are a couple of low brow, science-free bigots who mistake their own testosterone intoxicated egos for Godheads. As does Trump, who is a pathological liar to boot.

    1. Then why is Russia going along with the Paris Accord and before that Kyoto? Why is Putin financing green groups and anti-fracking films?
      Trump’s energy extraction provides competition for Russia.

  9. Trump seems yet to realise that picking mates who have habitually fluffed for him in business is not a strategy that is going to work for him in grown-up’s court. Giuliani is just the latest in a long line of sycophants who crumble when the going gets tough. As with so many others I hope that Trump keeps him on the team though, because it’s only to the benefit of discovery to have Rudy there.

    And in vaguely-related news, it seems that Avenatti may pull something out of his sleeve this week:

    https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/993110665307959303

    Whether it will result in a palpable hit remains to be seen.

    1. I don’t understand why Avenatti doesn’t just take the Paula Jones route to bring down Trump.
      Keep in mind that Paula Jones got to sue for defamation over something published by American Spectator, written by (now liberal activist/embezzler head of Media Matters) David Brock, that was said not by Bill Clinton but by someone on security that just said ‘Paula’.
      Trump is saying the porn star is lying about an affair. The precedent is there for her to sue for defamation, put Trump under oath, and then produce a perjury charge. Why this junk about a campaign finance violation that clearly won’t fly if anyone takes an honest look at the John Edwards case. They ended up with a hung jury, mistrial and eventually dropped the case, but first had to argue that it was a campaign finance violation because of Edwards’s image as a family man. Don’t think they can make that argument with Trump.

    2. mikeN’s comment are an an ever increasing arc of stupid and dishonest. Stupid, or intentionally dishonest and misleading? Too close to call.

  10. Dean,

    Looks to me like MikeN is spouting instant barroom blather, although… This is just the kind of approach to ‘thinking’ that wingnut radio and other outlets have spent decades cultivating as a vector for propaganda; sort of a package of training materials that include language, rhythms, laziness, and stock fallacies that are easily assimilated — like a cult of mendacity.

    Whatever else is going on in Mike’s head, he’s certainly got the rap down. He’s probably not even aware that his brain has been taken over by a Trojan Horse.

    Besides, as the vilest Writer has his Readers, so the greatest Liar has his Believers; and it often happens, that if a Lie be believ’d only for an Hour, it has done its Work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…

    ~ Jonathan Swift

    1. Anything in particular you wish to object to? Do you think a defamation case against Trump is invalid?

  11. Russia has not yet ratified the Paris Accord. “Vladimir Putin has said humans are not to blame for climate change – and that the melting of the ice in the Arctic could be used for Russia’s “economic ends”. ” The Independent

    “The apparent reversal in Mr Putin’s attitude to climate change came shortly after White House spokesman Sean Spicer announced that Donald Trump would decide by May whether the US will remain in the Paris Agreement. ”

    From Sept. 2012 Reuters… “Russia confirmed on Thursday it would not make cuts in greenhouse gas emissions from 2013 under the U.N.’s Kyoto Protocol, joining Canada and Japan in rejecting an extension of the plan for fighting climate change.”

    Conservatives seem to be so easily enamored of Russians. Putin claims he is a Christian and the white nationalists swoon and embrace him. And that is one really stupid move. The Russians are sowing the seeds of chaos within the US by supporting political entities that cause disunity in America. Russia loves to cause friction and division among Americans who should be working together, people who should be investing in developing energy sources that don’t turn the planet into a giant turd. Perhaps Rush Limbaugh works for the Russians?

    Russia does not want America to be a strong, unified, coherent, inclusive society. Russia knows that America gains much strength due to its diversity. Russia knows that the American image around the world, especially under Obama, was generally admired. Russia knows that our State Department is strengthened by our vast pool of people from all the world’s ethnicities.

    Oh yeah, and isn’t it funny that Russia hosts NRA evangelists and supports the NRA in the USA, while making gun ownership in Russia strictly controlled, far more strictly than in the US. They love it that America is terrorizing itself with its own guns. They absolutely love it.

    1. Speaking of the NRA, it’s fitting that they now have a felon and supporter of terrorists on two continents as their new president. Criminals everywhere should be thrilled (although we need to remember that gold ol’ Ronnie is ultimately responsible for hanging the 200+ Marines out to be killed by personally ordering no active defense of their post in Lebanon, then giving his blessing to giving weapons to their supporters, to the terrorists in Central America, and to ordering US agencies to stand aside while the Central American terrorists moved drugs into the US to raise funds. Trump isn’t the only Republican president to surround himself with scum and do evil things, but he is cut out of Reagan’s mold.)

      FAIRFAX, VA—Saying that he had just the qualifications needed to help guide their organization, the NRA announced Monday that Oliver North would be its new president, touting the retired Lt. Colonel’s expertise at avoiding jail time for colluding with hostile foreign powers. “Oliver North brings a wealth of experience in setting up back channels and illicitly exchanging funds with foreign adversaries, all while escaping any time in prison, which is exactly what the NRA is looking for in its leadership,” said NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre, telling reporters that North’s prowess at escaping felony charges for conspiring with rival countries in an effort to get even more firearms into people’s hands made the former FOX News host by far the best candidate they had considered. “As we looked to fill the position, we were immediately impressed by Lt. North’s proven ability to not only survive criminal conviction for illegally channeling foreign money, but also actively thrive in its aftermath. This is exactly the sort of innovation and resourcefulness that the NRA is going to need as it heads into the future.” LaPierre added that North’s skill set was complemented by his terrific attitude of contempt towards the rule of law.

  12. Re MikeN: “but first had to argue that it was a campaign finance violation because of Edwards’s image as a family man. Don’t think they can make that argument with Trump.”

    Now Mike, you should know by now how gullible and deluded Republican voters can be: Before the election, the sister of someone I know well told her that she was voting for Trump “because he was a good family man.”

    1. Now Mike, you should know by now how gullible and deluded Republican voters can be:

      Hell, some of them still believe Trump’s inauguration crowd was far larger than the “fake news media” showed it to be. That’s how gullible and deluded over easily disproved things they can be.

    2. Tyvor, this is something that was predicted around convention time. People would cite Trump’s kids as their reason for voting for him. It’s a ‘fake because’. They wanted to vote for Trump but didn’t want to admit their real reasons, and latched onto something more respectable.

      I do concede that Trump has a big family, if that counts as image of a family man.
      I think people should be more bothered with the logic of the government going after Edwards for a campaign finance violation, on grounds that he is a family man.

  13. And the dickhead in chief has pulled the US out of Iran deal, which his own people say is working and Iran is not violating, simply because it was put into place by someone who wasn’t white.

    The scum in the US are thrilled. Decent people are horrified.

    1. And Michael Avenatti has now dropped another bombshell on Michael Cohen, that now puts both Cohen and Trump right back into the crosshairs for collusion with Russia via payments from oligarch Viktor Vekselberg:

      https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/993960339443200000

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/us/politics/michael-cohen-shell-company-payments.html?smid=tw-share

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/daniels-lawyer-cohen-got-500k-russian-oligarch-viktor-vekselberg-n872481

      Of course, Mueller probably already knows this, but now it is ever harder for Trump to shout “no collusion.”

    2. Well, “decent people” are not as horrified enough as a group as they should be. It would be different if their sons (and daughters?) were subject to the draft. As long as we have a volunteer “warrior class,” war is something most people read about in the newspaper or see on tv, not real at all. It is horrifying to me that many Americans are apparently willing to support politicians who send many thousands of brave and patriotic mostly young people into stupid and avoidable wars just to show how “tough” the politicians are.

      Electing Donald Trump president and sweeping in enough Republicans with him to dominate the entire federal government may well be the stupidest thing the American political process has ever accomplished. And that covers a lot of stupidity.

    3. Yes, Mueller knew about it. It was reported that they interviewed this Russian at the airport awhile back.
      Bigger question is how did Avenatti get his hands on Cohen’s bank records?
      From raid of Cohen’s office, someone at Treasury leaked it to him, or is he engaged in his own criminal search?

    4. Avenatti’s source is likely in the government, as it’s hoovered up some miscellaneous ‘Michael Cohen’ records that aren’t Trump’s lawyer. So someone in Trump’s administration has put themselves in the crosshairs trying to do the right thing by the country: unless, of course, they were trying to warn targets and/or to put up obstacles that could be used by defence counsel’s as grounds for dismissal…

      I suspect that Avenatti is well aware of the tensions between keeping silent and using the material himself, and I reckon that he’s figured that there are more benefits than harm from him coming forward with the material. It certainly takes some of the heat off Mueller in terms of dismissal, as there are now so many irons in the fire that attempts to quell the investigation will become transparent as obstruction.

      And it helps to explain though why Mueller is taking the time that he is – there’s simply a huge and tangled web of connections of which most people are blithely unaware. Yesterday Pence was pinged by the Washington Post for being “worse than Trump”, and there appears to be indication that he’s been a subject of interest too, so it may be more accurate to say ‘blanket’ than ‘web’.

  14. Re MikeN: “They wanted to vote for Trump but didn’t want to admit their real reasons, and latched onto something more respectable.”

    I’m sure that there is something to that argument so perhaps gullibility is not always a factor, but you have to admit that it takes a certain amount of self-delusion to say the words “good family man” and expect to be believed about a serial adulterer who has said the things he’s said about women. A lie that no rational human would believe is not a good cover for an discreditable motive so why not pick something true and believable about Trump? Here’s an example “Trump has been a very successful con man and self-advertiser, and he lies easily and often. These are all useful qualities for getting your own way and wriggling out from under any major consequences. A President needs such qualities to get along in a hostile world.” There you are: true and believable.

    1. Not ‘good family man’ but ‘I love his kids’.
      I find it odd that not one of his kids exhibit the same jerk behavior of their dad.

    2. I find it odd that not one of his kids exhibit the same jerk behavior of their dad.

      That comment deserves to be stared at with mouth open, simply for the massive amount of stupidity/denial contained in only 18 words.

    3. MikeN, let me explain the reason for your perception of “odd[ness]” – it’s your cognitive scotoma, grossly exacerbated by your ideological biases.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

      http://www.newsweek.com/trump-jr-legal-jeopardy-635182

      https://thinkprogress.org/ivanka-trump-ethics-disclosure-profit-d6190f663c6b/

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ivanka-trump-self-help-book-profits-unethical-white-house-adviser-conflict-interest-first-daughter-a7715206.html

      There are dozens more reasons to scrutinise the entire Trump clan, but these might serve to ring a bell in your head.

  15. So yesterday we saw

    – the dedication of the new “embassy” with accompanying killing of protesters by the Israeli military
    – Trump’s son-in-law, and spokesperson, blaming the murders on the victims
    – The portion of the son-in-law’s speech where he blamed the victims for their occupation and use as targets was not included in the official White House transcripts
    – A speech by a minister who is on record as saying Jews, Hindus, Muslims — anyone who is not a white Christian — will be doomed to hell
    – A speech by a minister on record as saying Hitler was doing God’s work
    – A speech by a rabbi who just this last spring gave speeches describing blacks as “ignorant monkeys”
    – A statement from the White House saying they didn’t know how people with such extreme views were given time to speak

    But no, this administration doesn’t pander to the worst people — racists, religious bigots, and other low-life scum — at all.

    1. >saying Jews, Hindus, Muslims — anyone who is not a white Christian — will be doomed to hell

      If a group doesn’t believe in Hell, why should they be insulted by this?

    1. Given the dishonest sites you visit rickA I’m suprised they announced any were not ‘militants’ (a phrase which simply means they were engaging in demonstrations against this ceremony).

      The people shot (and 2400 were wounded) were protesting the events: there was no way for the military to tell, as they were shooting, who was who. It seems they were simply continuing what they’ve been doing for several weeks: shooting essentially at random into crowds to get them to disperse.

      Your dishonest attempt at deflection, as with mikeN’s, is disgusting and dishonest. But we expect nothing better from either of you.

      By the IDF’s own assessment after the fact:

      We killed three “terrorists” and struck five “terrorist targets.”

      Given their lack of concern “terrorist” in this setting could mean anything from “actual history of terrorist acts” to “someone scary looking we thought might throw a rock over a fence”.

    2. dean:

      Maybe my websites are biased. Maybe your websites are biased. I read that many militants were trying to plant bombs against the fence, or cut the fence and so forth. So maybe not just random shooting into a crowd of 30,000 people protesting.

      It is hard to sort out the truth in matters like these.

      Is the glass half full or half empty? Which is the “truth”. It can depend on your point of view.

      I am just sharing what I read and heard so you have a different perspective.

      I thank OA for sharing his link to his lampoon version of the events, which also has a point of view, which may or may not represent the “truth”.

    3. Yeah, I’d prefer to avoid being drawn into a highly charged, tribal, and ahistorical argument, Rick.

      Prerequisite:
      – Metaliteracy 101

      Terms for today’s vocabulary assignment:
      – Spotlight fallacy
      – Equivocation
      – False balance
      – Argument from ignorance

      Research suggestions:
      – The Ottoman empire and how the middle east region evolved after its collapse.
      – Geography and Europe’s history of violent instability.
      – 19th century political ideation and its possible persistence into the 21st century.
      – Ethics

      Write an essay:
      – Watch “Escape from Manhattan” and imagine how the story would change if you replaced the criminals with a population of ethnic refugees and political prisoners who are then subjected to various forms of group punishments, pressures, and humiliations. Would you expect thing to go well?

  16. Maybe my websites are biased.

    Your comments in general, as well as the things you cite, as as full of shit and out of touch with reality as the “flat earth” and “moon landings were faked” conspiracies.

    Your history of dishonesty works against anyone taking you seriously or believing you are making an effort to add anything factual to any conversation.

    1. Your opinion is noted.

      However I do not agree with it.

      I will leave it to the readers to decide for themselves if my links are “full of shit” or “out of touch with reality”.

      Ditto for my posts.

      You keep calling me dishonest – but failing to prove it.

      I added a link to support my assertion.

      Just because you disagree with me does not make me dishonest.

      Why it doesn’t even make me wrong!

      If you truly believe that I am adding nothing factual to the conversation, than why do you keep responding?

  17. I looked at the Times of Israel about a week ago. along with the article I was seeking, it showed me an ad for a video that purportedly would “destroy the Obamas.” This gives me reason to think that the Times of Israel may well be biased.

    1. I’m sure you know this about rickA by now, but it bears repeating: as he’s made clear many times, his libertarian “ideals” tell him that people who are in power deserve to be there, and those who are poor or repressed in general also deserve to be, and that any use of force by the folks at the top against those at the bottom is always justified, just because, and regardless of the absence of any immediate threat.

      That’s why he picks the sources he does. They agree with his demented world view.

  18. Re MikeN: “If a group doesn’t believe in Hell, why should they be insulted by this?”

    Insulted, maybe no, perhaps just anxious, maybe even frightened. The kind of people who say things like this also sometimes listen to voices (inside or outside their heads) that tell them it’s all right — even God’s will — that they kill these people so as to get them into Hell as soon as possible. In a country in which the number of guns is about equal to the total population, but are not distributed equally, I can see why this would be scary.

    Insulted? Why not? There are believers in God and Hell who don’t automatically consign everyone to Hell just for being non-white, or even for being non-Christian. They might well consider the statement you reference as blasphemy.

    1. Yes, if their belief is different, then they will consider it blasphemy. They may even think the other side is going to Hell for saying what they said or or not believing as they do.
      Note, the statement by Christians that they are going to Hell is supposed to be coupled with trying to convert them in order to save them from Hell. So while it’s annoying as hell, the recipient rather than being insulted should think well of the person saying it.

  19. “Hamas claims 50 of its members died in Monday’s clashes in Gaza”

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/16/middleeast/hamas-members-gaza-deaths/index.html

    “Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-says-most-protesters-killed-israel-gaza-were-members-n874906

    “Martyrdom photos from Gaza BUST narrative of peaceful protesters ONCE AND FOR ALL”

    https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/05/15/martyrdom-photos-from-gaza-bust-narrative-of-peaceful-protesters-once-and-for-all/

    So much for the claim that the IDF has been “shooting essentially at random into crowds to get them to disperse.”

    1. So, 53 out of 62 killed in the Gaza riots were members of groups designated as “terrorists” by the US Dept of State.

      One should remember that one country’s terrorist is another country’s freedom fighter. After all there were many terrorists rampant on the East coast of America in the 1770s.

      Whatever, your claims about only Hamas members being shot down in the Gaza riots relies upon right wing media sources.

      The recent disturbing events are down to an ignoramus doing stupid things like sanctioning the setting up of an embassy in disputed territory. A territory of which I doubt ‘the stupid’ has any idea of the history of and how marginalised the original occupants of those lands have become through a long process of ethnic cleansing.

      Ilan Pappe’s book ‘The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine’ lays the groundwork by relating the events immediately following World War Two.

      https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/jan/20/interview-ilan-pappe-historian

      Palestine was a territory recognised as belonging to the Palestinians and appeared on maps as Palestine and not Israel. Indeed editions of The Bible I had as a youngster had different maps, some (belonging to my mother originally so older) delineated the territory as Palestine, whereas 1950s editions had maps with section marked as Israel, that area as defined under UN mandate leaving the remainder as Palestine.

      The long history of the peoples in that area tells us that it was occupied by Philistines and Canaanites before the nomadic Hebrews migrated into the land and used force to establish their settlements. [1] The Old Testament tells us this as do archaeological excavations. These latter have shown that at the time that Joshua was supposedly reducing walls using the vibrations of feet and sounds of trumpets there were no walls of Jericho.

      One really has to understand how the the Israeli administrations have carried out a viscous process over time of marginalise, expel and eradicate. Where the Palestinians have not been expelled they have been corralled into the panopticon prison (Jeremy Bentham) of the Gaza Strip surrounded by walls and barb wire which has taken over much land formerly available to the Palestinians for agriculture.

      The Israeli’s have widened that buffer zone further encroaching on Palestinian lands and have tried slicing up the Gaza Strip with ‘fingers’ of incursions to further disrupt Palestinian life this in addition to bombing hospitals, power stations and restricting water supply. Israel actually built a full sized other ‘Gaza city’ in the Negev desert costing millions ($50M) so that they could practice attacking it with whatever weaponry the fancied. Often multi-headed phosphorous munitions, rockets and so on. This is the reason why Sharon removed Jewish settlers from the territory so that such actions could be carried out without the risk of Israeli casualties.

      Ilan Pappe’s more recent ‘The Biggest Prison on Earth: The History of the Israeli Occupation’ explains and much more.

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Biggest-Prison-Earth-History-Occupation/dp/1851685871

      [1] E.g. John Heywood ‘Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations’ pp 42.

  20. Steve Inskeep interviewed a “peaceful” Gazan protester.

    “On @NPR, @NPRinskeep just asked a Gazan with a kite w a swastika on it what it means to him. “The Jews go crazy when you mention Hitler.” Steve Inskeep asked if he knows the Israelis are using the swastikas to discredit Gazans. “It’s what we mean. We want them to burn,” he said.”

    https://twitter.com/NPRinskeep/status/996355922304864261

    So why is Dean claiming that there is an “absence of any immediate threat” ?

    1. On Memri:

      Critics charge that despite portraying itself as neutral,[5] it aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light through the production and dissemination of incomplete translations and by selectively translating views of extremists while deemphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[6]

      Source

      Whatever. To obtain a full understanding of the Palestine/Israel issue one need to understand the history here are included covers of selected books which will let you do that. It was the imperial powers that set this in motion post WW1 by not discounting ethnic issues when drawing boundaries to suit their various agendas.

      http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/WW1CandEf.jpg

  21. Yep, you nailed it again Lionel. The Middle East was a land of peace and tranquility with absolutely no history of ethnic conflict. That is until those damn Europeans intruded and !@#$% it all up.

    1. The Middle East was a land of peace and tranquility with absolutely no history of ethnic conflict.

      Just like the Americas before Europeans came on the scene after all there were no people living there already, it was empty land just for the taking, which is what they have done.

      So, not willing to engage with the history you turn to rhetorical mockery by putting thoughts into my mind. Is that really the best you have got?

    1. Um, please explain to us all what the USS Liberty incident has to do with entire families being knifed to death in their homes.

      What’s the connection?

    2. Would you support Palestinians enabling security checks at the entrances to mosques in order to prevent a future attack?

      Or would you support a riot that demands the dismantling of such security measures?

  22. Locus instead of trying to counter your deliberately distracting and puerile points one by one I will suggest that you do some honest research and reading so that you obtain an understanding of the context of the present situation in the ME.

    Besides the overt and disproportionate violence that the Palestinian population are subject to Israeli cruelty takes other forms as they redress, what was the worrying difference in the population dynamics between the two peoples. Ethnic cleansing, for that is what this is, takes many forms as the following examples demonstrate:

    Not all violence is hot. There’s cold violence too…

    Bad Laws

    Travel Diary

    In late May 2013, I co-led an Interfaith Peace-Builders (IFPB) delegation to Israel and the Occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, along with Josh Ruebner, author and National Advocacy Director of the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation. Though we reached the edge of Gaza, we could not enter due to Israel’s hermetic seal of the 360-square mile Strip. Over the span of two weeks available we sought to explore the impact of US foreign policy upon the Israel-Palestinian conflict. We travelled from the Jordan Valley to Lifta; from Jerusalem and through the cow herding stalls of the Qalandia checkpoint; from Dheishe refugee camp to surrounding, and enduring, Bethlehem; from the heart of Nazareth to the colony that sits on its highest points; from the ignominious parks of South Tel Aviv to the gentrified shores of Yaffa; from the resilient communities of Bil’in and Nahalin to the tortured streets of Hebron where militarized racial supremacy is painfully raw. Throughout the trip, the delegates examined how they, through US economic, military, and diplomatic aid, were complicit in this seemingly distant conflict. This was no exercise in Western voyeurism. In the course of paying taxes and letting elected representatives rattle off their allegiance to Israel without scrutiny, each of the delegates was both part of the problem and a key to its resolution. This is what, Josh and I, repeatedly emphasized.

    Both can also be found, with other relevant pieces in:

    ‘Letter to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation’ Edited by Vijay Prashad.

    I was initially worried about taking this thread away from the topic implied by the title but I need not have been concerned for you soon demonstrated that you are also an ignoramus given to bloviating.

    1. Yeah, it’s always the same. This topic (the ME) goes sideways pretty quickly.

      Anyway, Troll Central occaisionally sends out a plague of one locus. It eats up space and defecates faulty generalizations, non sequiturs, and smug misrepresentations while contributing nothing.
      DNFTT

      Probably best not to encourage MikeN’s boring attempts at talking point collages either.

      Which reminds me, one of the more revealing and relatively recent rhetorical devices you sometimes hear is that there is no ‘cycle of violence’: because if the Palestinians would just lay down their guns there would be peace. This is stunning, thought terminating illogic. In other words, there can be no cycle of violence, because if there were no cycle of violence, then there would be no cycle of violence.

  23. Lionel, Palestine was the name used for Israel back to Roman times. The Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews. Knowledgeable Arabs respond by declaring the Jews in Israel are ‘fake Jews’.

  24. Hamas likes to use women and children as human shields. Getting them killed is a bonus for great PR from a media that likes to attack Israel.

    1. Mike N

      No Palestine did not equate to Israel but was a larger area. Also at one time Israel was two kingdoms with only one part known as Israel.

      Read again my earlier post:

      The long history of the peoples in that area tells us that it was occupied by Philistines and Canaanites before the nomadic Hebrews migrated into the land and used force to establish their settlements. [1] The Old Testament tells us this as do archaeological excavations. These latter have shown that at the time that Joshua was supposedly reducing walls using the vibrations of feet and sounds of trumpets there were no walls of Jericho.

      [1] E.g. John Heywood ‘Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations’ pp 42.

      You do know what EoZ TV is I suppose.

  25. Lionel,

    What is so ‘distracting’ about my questions?

    I pointed out that the Middle East has a blood-soaked past that predates European created boundaries by thousands of years. In what way am I refusing to “engage” with history? My argument is literally based on history.

    Still waiting for an answer about the USS Liberty being a threat “going the other way”. Threat to whom? What is the connection between the Fogel family’s murder by Palestinians and a friendly fire incident from 50 years earlier?

    Still waiting for you to answer about Palestinians erecting security checks to prevent another Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.

    Why are you deflecting so much?

    1. Locus it is all context and background Locus. So stop shooting back with simplistic ruminations.

      If you cannot understand my points then do some research. I know full well that the ME has a blood soaked past after all the Bible tells us with glee about the slaughter of all when the Hebrews took over towns and villages.

      The topic now is the ongoing Israeli oppression of a peoples which were well established on the ground and with whom they co-existed peacefully for some time before the rampant Zionists got going with successive waves of immigration. Sure many arrived as refugees from continental Europe before and after WW2, indeed I have a copy of a biography of one of those who served during WW2 so am very familiar with the history.

      Oh and BTW the Liberty incident was nothing like friendly fire. Read the Chapter ‘Blood’ in James Bamford’s:

      Body Of Secrets: How America’s NSA & Britain’s GCHQ Eavesdrop On The World

      I offer that version being the issue I have here. Having served in a national maritime force I understand the points of recognition only to well, also rules of engagement it was clearly a deliberate attack on a target of known identity. As I wrote, this is all context for it spotlights how ruthless the Israeli’s can be, it is all a part of the same problem – covering their tracks afraid of what the sigint ship was hearing from shoreside transmissions as bad things were happening around Al Arish. Now if you bothered to read about the Nakba and what followed, and still does, you would appreciate this as well, assuming you are a rational human being.

      Now you accuse me of deflecting, you hypocrite.

  26. Re MikeN: “So while it’s annoying as hell, the recipient rather than being insulted should think well of the person saying it.”

    Possibly. It depends on how they go about their conversion attempt and what it takes to make them stop. Not too long ago in N Louisiana, a lawsuit was brought against a public school in which at least one non-Christian student was told by a teacher that his/her religion “was stupid.” Classes involved prayers and memorization of religious
    doctrinal information if I remember correctly and the teacher’s supervisor told the complaining parents that they were in the Bible belt and should either change their religion or move. Think well of those people? I think not. It is not as if it were a matter of evidence. There is no empirical evidence for any religion; it is a judgment call which can’t be judged here on Earth.

    I notice that you didn’t address my first point regarding the natural anxiety of people about religiously-motivated hostility to the point of murder. I may take that as tacit agreement.

  27. I don’t know how to feel about Trump. Does he have a grand scheme underway or is he fumbling his way into disaster? He’s difficult to nail down. I’m undecided about DJT. I understand that most voters are set in stone about the president. I strongly believe that Giuliani & President Trump are two peas in a pod, However.

  28. Lionel A,

    “Whatever, your claims about only Hamas members being shot down in the Gaza riots relies upon right wing media sources.”

    NBC news is now “right wing”? CNN is now “right wing”?

    I specifically searched for sources that you couldn’t ad hominem, and yet you still did.

  29. Lionel A,

    “The recent disturbing events are down to an ignoramus doing stupid things like sanctioning the setting up of an embassy in disputed territory.”

    The Jerusalem Embassy act of 1995 was passed with overwhelming support from both houses of Congress.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

    Both Clinton and Obama promised to move the embassy, but didn’t.

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/14/watch-obama-clinton-bush-say-jerusalem-israel-capital/

  30. “Anyway, Troll Central occaisionally sends out a plague of one locus. It eats up space and defecates faulty generalizations, non sequiturs, and smug misrepresentations while contributing nothing.
    DNFTT ”

    Apparently Obstreperous Applesauce has not been educated enough to distinguish between the mathematical term “locus” and the insect called a “locust”.

  31. Lionel A,

    You’re still deflecting.

    Please explain to us all what the USS Liberty incident has to do with an infant being decapitated in a crib?

    If you have something to say, then stop being mealy-mouthed and say it. I’m not going to try and guess what you mean because even if I guess absolutely correctly you’ll still whine that I’m “putting words in your mouth”.

  32. Lionel A,

    You’re still deflecting. You never answered my questions.

    Would you support Palestinians enabling security checks at the entrances to mosques in order to prevent a future attack?

    Or would you support a riot that demands the dismantling of such security measures?

  33. Lionel A,

    “I know full well that the ME has a blood soaked past after all the Bible tells us with glee about the slaughter of all when the Hebrews took over towns and villages. ”

    So you’re a biblical literalist? Don’t want to be accused of misrepresenting your position.

  34. Obstreperous Applesauce,

    “It’s a pun, dumbass.”

    Sure it was.

    Because you have to be impressed with the literary skills of someone who spells “occasionally” as “occaisionally”.

  35. “The recent disturbing events are down to an ignoramus doing stupid things like sanctioning the setting up of an embassy in disputed territory.”

    If they get that violent in response to setting up an embassy in disputed territory, then I wonder how violent they would get at setting up a capital in disputed territory.

    1. They weren’t violent mikeN. They weren’t in any position to threaten events. They were simply shot because they were protesting and the military leaders knew they could get away with it.

      The bigotry of you, locus, and rickA, would be disgusting to see if this weren’t the first time, but your history of dishonest representation (and especially locus’ pretending that being presented with the horrible Nazi representations actually constitutes a “threat” that deserves being shot) means it’s simply par for the course.

  36. NBC news is now “right wing”? CNN is now “right wing”?

    I specifically searched for sources that you couldn’t ad hominem, and yet you still did.

    My first post came after those links and after a number of exchanges you used partisan sources for back up. Whatever, NBC and CNN are not known for balanced reporting, that you don’t recognise that shines a spotlight on your inability to do other than chose confirmation bias, most media outlets fail on this issue as the texts of my sources show.

    Then you link to The Federalist which is right wing, check out the troubled history of founder Ben Domenech which includes plagiarism.

    You’re still deflecting. You never answered my questions.

    Would you support Palestinians enabling security checks at the entrances to mosques in order to prevent a future attack?

    Or would you support a riot that demands the dismantling of such security measures?

    No, I am not deflecting, your two questions are ill-formed having little connect with the history of the Levant and you would understand why if you engaged with the literature I have suggested, including such as shown here:

    http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/WW1CandEf.jpg

    As for me being a biblical literalist , that is one asinine suggestion, given it is on account of one statement that you didn’t like because it spoiled your narrative. No I have studied history and the bible is an, at times none to reliable when it comes to opinion, historical document which can be used as such, if with care.

    I have provided links to sources:

    ‘Letter to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation’ Edited by Vijay Prashad.

    and here: http://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587847

    here: http://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587853

    Jeremy Bowen also produced an excellent overview of the 67 war in his

    ‘Six Days: How the 1967 War Shaped the Middle East’

    which also includes a description of the attack on the USS Liberty. Now if you cannot understand the relevance of that, even after having it pointed out, then that is your failure not mine.

    Now a better understanding is up to you, further smoke blowing on your part will be taken as a sign that you are not here for reasonable informed discussion. I could produce a thesis sized post on this or write a book, but oh wait those books have been written and I suggest that you study them. Smart Alec answers from you will not do.

    1. What … is … the … link … between … the … USS Liberty … incident … and … the … decapitation … of … an … infant ????

      Why won’t you answer?

    2. So even NBC and CNN are too right wing for you? And of course you immediately go for the ad hominem with the Federalist.

      So please tell us how these sources got it wrong. Was there a Jerusalem Embassy Act that passed Congress in 1995 or not?

    3. “No, I am not deflecting, your two questions are ill-formed having little connect with the history of the Levant …”

      Wut? You brought up the horrible terrorist attack at the Cave of the Patriarchs but when I respond you accuse me of going off topic.

    4. “Now a better understanding is up to you, further smoke blowing on your part will be taken as a sign that you are not here for reasonable informed discussion.”

      Oh, I think it’s getting pretty obvious which of us is blowing smoke …

  37. Darn it, fell foul of a link number limit, I think, splitting.

    NBC news is now “right wing”? CNN is now “right wing”?

    I specifically searched for sources that you couldn’t ad hominem, and yet you still did.

    My first post came after those links and after a number of exchanges you used partisan sources for back up. Whatever, NBC and CNN are not known for balanced reporting, that you don’t recognise that shines a spotlight on your inability to do other than chose confirmation bias, most media outlets fail on this issue as the texts of my sources show.

    Then you link to The Federalist which is right wing, check out the troubled history of founder Ben Domenech which includes plagiarism.

    You’re still deflecting. You never answered my questions.

    Would you support Palestinians enabling security checks at the entrances to mosques in order to prevent a future attack?

    Or would you support a riot that demands the dismantling of such security measures?

    No, I am not deflecting, your two questions are ill-formed having little connect with the history of the Levant and you would understand why if you engaged with the literature I have suggested, including such as shown here:

    http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/WW1CandEf.jpg

    As for me being a biblical literalist , that is one asinine suggestion, given it is on account of one statement that you didn’t like because it spoiled your narrative. No I have studied history and the bible is an, at times none to reliable when it comes to opinion, historical document which can be used as such, if with care.

    1. “No I have studied history and the bible is an, at times none to reliable when it comes to opinion, historical document which can be used as such, if with care.”

      Well that’s fascinating. So please tell us how you use the Bible as a historical source. What **objective** standard do you apply to determine the Bible’s accuracy?

  38. Locus

    Part 2

    I have provided links to sources:

    ‘Letter to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation’ Edited by Vijay Prashad.

    and here: http://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587847

    here: http://gregladen.com/blog/2018/05/04/bloviating-morons-will-bloviate-trump-and-giuliani/#comment-587853

    Jeremy Bowen also produced an excellent overview of the 67 war in his

    ‘Six Days: How the 1967 War Shaped the Middle East’

    which also includes a description of the attack on the USS Liberty. Now if you cannot understand the relevance of that, even after having it pointed out, then that is your failure not mine.

    Now a better understanding is up to you, further smoke blowing on your part will be taken as a sign that you are not here for reasonable informed discussion. I could produce a thesis sized post on this or write a book, but oh wait those books have been written and I suggest that you study them. Smart Alec answers from you will not do.

  39. Dean,

    Palestinians were not killed for protesting, but for attempting and then actually breaching the border fence. Hamas and Islamic Jihad not only admit, but proudly announce, that their members constituted the vast majority of the dead.

    The young Gazan interviewed by Steve Inskeep was not shot for displaying Nazi imagery. He wasn’t shot at all. The swastika was merely the predicate for the interview. The important point was the Gazan freely admiting that the intention of the Palestinians was to commit mass murder if they could cross the border, thus revealing Dean’s claim that the protesters are “peaceful” for the lie that it is.

  40. Answering more Hocus Pocus from Locus

    Palestinians were not killed for protesting, but for attempting and then actually breaching the border fence.

    A border fence which should not be there, a border that is not how you imagine it, as I have written before, this is a border zone which Israel has widened increasing the encroachment onto former Palestinian territory further limiting agriculture. The Israelis are very devious and duplicitous and you swallow their propaganda whole, shame on you.

    “The Israeli military confines the 2 million Gazans with parallel barbed-wire barriers separated by a 300 yard land moat, surveillance sensors, constant patrols bearing shoot-to-kill orders, and only two exit check-points, one (Erez crossing) where Israel controls the border, the other (Rafah crossing) which Egypt controls.”

    Source

    The inhuman truth about the Gaza Strip:

    Running on empty: inside the Gaza strip

    Hamas and Islamic Jihad not only admit, but proudly announce, that their members constituted the vast majority of the dead.

    According to Israeli partisan sources and western media who get their material from Israeli partisan sources.

    The important point was the Gazan freely admiting [sic – and you got at OAS for such] that the intention of the Palestinians was to commit mass murder if they could cross the border,…

    According to the interpretation by the media source. Who knows? This whole thing could be more propaganda, a set up like the pantomime shown in the clip put up here by MikeN, in order to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors, the speaker could even be an Israeli speaking in a Palestinian tongue this is a known propaganda tactic used by the duplicitous Israeli authorities.

    1. “This whole thing could be more propaganda …”

      Why would the American media participate in such an alleged setup?

  41. Locus of Hocus Pocus

    Well that’s fascinating. So please tell us how you use the Bible as a historical source. What **objective** standard do you apply to determine the Bible’s accuracy?

    That question once again reveals a limited, or mendacious, mind.

    The thing is Locus I have studied many types of historical source including those dealing with the geological history of the Earth, palaeontology, the histories of other civilizations [1], which involves archaeology, and evolution [2] and anthropology.

    [1] See e.g. some in this:

    http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/MorePics6/ACivBx4.jpg

    [2] This is just one author who has advanced enlightenment:

    http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/Misc/BkMk6ax5.jpg

    others could be added to those seen there, such as Jerry Coyne, ?Jared Diamond, O.E. Wilson and many more.

    1. Still didn’t answer the question. What objective standard do you use to determine which stories of the Bible are historically accurate?

      Or do you merely engage in confirmation bias, accepting only that which conforms to your narrative?

  42. Now Locus, in order for you to even begin to grasp why your repeated questions were so ill formed being based upon ignorance I urge you to read Ilan Pappe’s ‘The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”

    Here is a source where you can choose to read as text (OCR with uncorrected obvious mistranslations) or as a PDF.

    https://archive.org/details/PAPPEIlanTheETHNICCLEANSINGOfPALESTINE_201804

    One snippet:

    Once the decision was taken, it took six months to complete the
    mission. When it was over, more than half of Palestine’s native
    population, close to 800,000 people, had been uprooted, 531
    villages had been destroyed, and eleven urban neighbourhoods
    emptied of their inhabitants. The plan decided upon on 10 March
    1948, and above all its systematic implementation in the following
    months, was a clear-cut case of an ethnic cleansing operation,
    regarded under international law today as a crime against humanity.

    We know the names of the people who sat in that room on the
    top floor of the Red House, beneath Marxist-style posters that
    carried such slogans as ‘Brothers in Arms’ and ‘The Fist of Steel’,
    and showed ‘new’ Jews – muscular, healthy and tanned – aiming
    their rifles from behind protective barriers in the ‘brave fight’
    against ‘hostile Arab invaders’. We also know the names of the
    senior officers who executed the orders on the ground. All are
    familiar figures in the pantheon of Israeli heroism.7 Not so long ago
    many of them were still alive, playing major roles in Israeli politics
    and society; very few are still with us today.
    For Palestinians, and anyone else who refused to buy into the
    Zionist narrative, it was clear long before this book was written that
    these people were perpetrators of crimes, but that they had successfully
    evaded justice and would probably never be brought
    to trial for what they had done. Besides their trauma, the deepest
    form of frustration for Palestinians has been that the criminal act
    these men were responsible for has been so thoroughly denied, and
    that Palestinian suffering has been so totally ignored, ever since
    1948.
    Approximately thirty years ago, the victims of the ethnic
    cleansing started reassembling the historical picture that the official
    Israeli narrative of 1948 had done everything to conceal and
    distort. The tale Israeli historiography had concocted spoke of a
    massive ‘voluntary transfer’ of hundreds of thousands of
    Palestinians who had decided temporarily to leave their homes and
    villages so as to make way for the invading Arab armies bent on
    destroying the fledgling Jewish state. By collecting authentic
    memories and documents about what had happened to their
    people, Palestinian historians in the 1970s, Walid Khalidi foremost
    among them, were able to retrieve a significant part of the picture
    Israel had tried to erase. But they were quickly overshadowed by
    publications such as Dan Kurzman’s Genesis 1948 which
    appeared in 1970 and again in 1992 (now with an introduction by
    one of the executors of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, Yitzhak
    Rabin, then Israel’s prime minister). However, there were also
    some who came out in support of the Palestinian endeavour, like
    Michael Palumbo whose The Palestinian Catastrophe, published
    in 1987, validated the Palestinian version of the 1948 events with
    the help of UN documents and interviews with Palestinian refugees”

    pp. xii–xiv of my print edition.

    When you have read, learned and inwardly digest that then move on to

    ‘The Biggest Prison on Earth’ which will lead to understanding of the dire plight of Palestinians living under Israel’s capricious rule, a regime which is Fascist in application.

    1. Still waiting for an answer. What does the USS Liberty incident have to do with the decapitation of an infant?

  43. Or do you merely engage in confirmation bias, accepting only that which conforms to your narrative?

    Neat, taking my ideas up well you as an expert in confirmation bias you should know how that works. Whatever, as you fail to grasp what I am on about you clearly have had a narrow education.

    Still waiting for an answer. What does the USS Liberty incident have to do with the decapitation of an infant?

    Bit slow on the uptake are you not, I have explained that one, the original mention of the USS Liberty was as a stand alone sentence and it was you who concatenated two memes into one. I had explained why the USS Liberty was mentioned, it is all a part of the bigger picture, not my problem if you think in a straight-jacket – that narrow education again. Also that dishonest streak perverting the meaning of posts from others.

    Arguing with you is like handling a hagfish, being left with a load of slime. Go back to bottom feeding.

    1. Nope. You’re deflecting again.

      Why won’t you answer?

      **You’re** the one who brought up the USS Liberty.

  44. **You’re** the one who brought up the USS Liberty.

    I know. What is wrong with you that you fail to understand that I mentioned this as one part of the bigger picture, a picture which I have been unfolding and which YOU ignore whilst repeating yourself in a purile manner.

    I am through with you on these points. Go read up on stuff you waste of space.

    1. “I am through with you on these points.”

      And the whole world heaves a collective sigh of relief.

    1. “I am through with you on these points”

      Well that didn’t last long.

      So, still waiting for you to explain the connection between the USS Liberty incident and the decapitation of a 3-month old infant.

      Still waiting for you to answer if you believe that the Palestinians have a right to erect security checkpoints at crowded locations? Or would you endorse a riot demanding that the Palestinians NOT put up checkpoints.?

  45. Letters to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation

    Impassioned and intimate writing to Palestinians from celebrated American writers

    Operation Protective Edge, Israel’s seven-week bombing campaign and ground invasion of Gaza in the summer of 2014, resulted in half a million displaced Gazans, tens of thousands of destroyed homes, and more than 2,000 deaths—and, yet, it was only the latest in a long series of assaults endured by Palestinians isolated in Gaza. But, following the conflict, polls revealed a startling fact: for the first time, a majority of Americans under thirty found Israel’s actions unjustified. Jon Stewart aired a blistering attack on Israeli violence, and a video of a UN spokesperson weeping as he was interviewed in Gaza went viral, appearing on Vanity Fair and Buzzfeed, among other sites.

    This book traces this swelling American recognition of Palestinian suffering, struggle, and hope, in writing that is personal, lyrical, anguished, and inspiring. Some of the leading writers of our time, such as Junot Díaz and Teju Cole, poets and essayists, novelists and scholars, Palestinian American activists like Huwaida Arraf, Noura Erakat, and Remi Kanazi, give voice to feelings of empathy and solidarity—as well as anger at US support for Israeli policy—in intimate letters, beautiful essays, and furious poems. This is a landmark work of controversial, committed literary writing.

    1. Still waiting for you to explain the connection between the USS Liberty incident and the decapitation of a 3-month old infant.

      Still waiting for you to answer if you believe that the Palestinians have a right to erect security checkpoints at crowded locations? Or would you endorse a riot demanding that the Palestinians NOT put up checkpoints?

  46. And then we have:

    IDF snipers, under instructions from their commanders, have been picking off and murdering civilians. 
    This massacre, the latest visited on protesters participating on the ‘Great March of Return’, was timed to coincide with the opening of a new US Embassy in Jerusalem. It seems likely that the killing is, in its own mediated way, a celebration of Trump’s carte blanche extended to Israel with regard to the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem. But it continues, as Doctors Without Borders and B’TSelem have both pointed out, a policy of firing live rounds at protesters, justified by the idea that the protests are a “combat zone” — or, in the fevered imagination of the IDF, an “area of terror”.

    The IDF has, in giving ideological flesh to these bare bones of “clashes” and “friction”, resorted to terrifying the world with Hamas’s malign orchestration of “arson kites” and “disabledcivilians”. Kids with fence-cutters? Gazans lobbing rocks at tanks? Kites on fire? Against one of the most powerful military forces in the world, backing up three lines of barbed wire fence?

    The line of the day from Israel, repeated by Nikki Haley, is that Israel is defending itself against “violent rioters”, who aim to break through the armistice line “with the goal of kidnapping or killing Israelis”. The Hamas leadership, don’t you know, “instructed” its people to tear out the hearts of Israelis. By the Infowars.com standard of proof that Israel’s supporters tend to adopt, this is damning. Israeli propaganda increasingly resembles a foghorn of paranoia.

    And so it is that, within the “area of terror”, everything is a manifestation of the Hamas plot. They’re coming. They’ve announced their plans. Everything has happened as if under the direction of this plot. Never mind that this march has little to do with Hamas. That Hamas did not organise it. That Hamas endorsed it at the last minute. That any speech by a Hamas leader in this context, even assuming good faith in translation, is pure, impotent bombast. That the fantasmatic idea of Gazans flooding into Israel to enact such a threat is not only insensible of the real balance of forces, but also racist in its precepts. That it is barbarous that one even has to point all this out (and one does, you know). Never mind all that. 

    It just so happens that a certain type of humanitarian liberalism can’t get over the fantasy, and the terror (or thrill) that it imparts. This is rooted, for non-Israelis, in a form of narcissistic solidarity with “people like us”. As Edward Said used to point out, everyone wants security from invasion, kidnapping and murder, but this discourse is generally not meant for Palestinians. If anything, the outcry of Palestinians, their protests, tend to be the object of a performative disidentification. And that is what is happening when people say, ‘couldn’t Israel just shoot them in the legs?’ 

    The killings are happening because Israel is trying to solve, with its overwhelming military power, a political problem. That problem is that Israel cannot reconcile its long-term objectives with any peaceable settlement with the Palestinians, and is slowly losing international support.

    Murderous humanitarianism

    1. locus has a long history of bigotry, racism, and flat out dishonesty on several blogs. Looking for rationality from him is as big a waste of time as looking for art in watery dog shit.

    2. “IDF snipers, under instructions from their commanders, have been picking off and murdering civilians. ”

      Please explain then why Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both State Department designated terrorist groupa, have claimed the overwhelming majority of the dead as their operatives?

      And of course…

      Still waiting for you to explain the connection between the USS Liberty incident and the decapitation of a 3-month old infant.

      Still waiting for you to answer if you believe that the Palestinians have a right to erect security checkpoints at crowded locations? Or would you endorse a riot demanding that the Palestinians NOT put up checkpoints?

  47. Looking for rationality from him is as big a waste of time …

    So it would appear, that is why I will now be ignoring the deviant posts from that direction whilst continuing to criticise the Israeli regime’s inhuman violence against others and demonstrating how evil they have been from the planning stage of the Nakba.

    Hint. Check out James Bamford (Body of Secrets etc.) on FB, he makes informative posts.

  48. The Onion nailed it.

    IDF Soldier Recounts Harrowing, Heroic War Story Of Killing 8-Month-Old Child
    JERUSALEM—Describing the terrifying yet valiant experience to his fellow battalion members, Israel Defense Forces soldier Yossi Saadon recounted Tuesday his harrowing, heroic war story of killing an 8-month-old Palestinian child during a violent attack against protesters. “It was a heart-pounding experience—there was smoke and gunfire all around me, and I made a split-second decision to hurl that canister of tear gas at the encroaching infant cradled in her father’s arms,” said Saadon to the group of awed soldiers, describing the chills that went up and down his spine as he realized that all he had was his M16 assault rifle and some tear gas to defend himself against the unarmed Palestinian family standing only dozens of yards away. “I could see the whites of the baby’s eyes and hear her terrifying cries, and I knew it was either her or me. And this wasn’t some newborn infant, you know? This was a baby who could probably sit up independently. I was scared, but I acted quickly to throw that tear gas at her and her older sister. And who knows how many lives I saved when I shot the women trying to help her?” At press time, Saadon’s battalion commander informed him that he was submitting his name for the Medal of Valor, the IDF’s highest honor.

  49. The evil that some are trying to ignore.

    But children in Gaza being shot is not unusual. The United Nations Children’s Fund, Unicef, says more than 1,000 have been wounded since protests began, some resulting in amputations. Save the Children says its own study found 250 children have been shot with live ammunition.

    <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/19/sometimes-dancing-sometimes-furious-a-girl-shot-dead-in-gaza"'Sometimes dancing, sometimes furious': a girl shot dead in Gaza

  50. Dean said,

    “locus has a long history of bigotry, racism, and flat out dishonesty on several blogs. Looking for rationality from him is as big a waste of time as looking for art in watery dog shit.”

    Those are some serious accusations. Where’s the evidence of my alleged “bigotry” or “racism”?

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