DJ Grothe vs. Tony Stark

I think the DJ Grothe thing has run its course. DJ issued a lengthy apology to Rebecca Watson on Skepchick. The apology has some good things in it, DJ has said some of the proper, need-to-be-said things. But as has been pointed out by both Rebecca and Stephanie (see also this) with added commentary by Jason, DJ’s comment…what it said, how it was said, what wasn’t said, to whom it was said, and to whom it was not said, among other things…underscored rather than diffused the problem. Now, he should be prepared to take the next needed steps.

Dr Phil tells us that there comes a time in many relationships for one person to be a hero. It is now time for DJ Grothe to be the hero. Pursuant to this, I give you … DJ Grothe, Joining The Avengers for a Trial Period:

DJ GROTHE AND TONY STARK .... SEPARATED AT BIRTH?

Tony Stark:

  • Prepared to protect the world from evil with amazing technology
  • Wears a red invincible suit
  • Needs an HR department and has one

DJ Grothe:

  • Needs to stop protecting TAM and start protecting Skepticism from itself
  • Probably does not have a red invincible suit and that’s OK
  • Needs an HR department and does not have one

This is not hard. Even a Skeptic can do it. Bring in a consultant, DJ. There are people who do this for a living. Bring in an outside, independent, professional. Not a public relations professional (shame on anyone for thinking I meant that!) No. An organizational professional with expertise in Human Resources and Harassment compliance, and intra-organizational (as in Intra-Skepticism, not JREF) problem solving skills. If you want, I can suggest some names. Or, just click here.

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19 Responses to DJ Grothe vs. Tony Stark

  1. dan-o says:

    I hope this disagreement does not cause the down fall of the entire Freethought group!

  2. gwen says:

    This discussion can only make the Freethought movement BETTER.

  3. Feddlefew says:

    It’s not like skeptics are the borg; we should be more than happy to have people disagreement and discussion amongst ourselves.

    Provided each one of us is willing to hold their opinions to the same standard they hold others, of course.

  4. Greg Laden says:

    You know, I should probably be careful with Avengers references, having not actually seen the movie…

  5. Drivebyposter says:

    I hope this disagreement does not cause the down fall of the entire Freethought group!

    Again, you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.
    Please try to pay better attention or better yet, just shut the fuck up.

  6. dan-o says:

    Actually driveby I have been following this on many of the blogs as I am sure you have been counting my truth telling posts. Isn’t there a rock somewhere that needs a renter, underneath that is. I am simply hoping for a brighter future as you can tell by my above post. Thank you Greg for allowing the other side to continue to comment in a respectful manor.

  7. arbor says:

    I don’t accept Groth’s “apology”.

    I don’t think he has a sincere bone in his body.

    I don’t think he gets (or cares) why we are upset.

    He simply said what he thought he needed to say to get us to shut up.

    The first step that JREF needs to take on a very long road back to mere acceptability is to rid itself of this turkey.

  8. John D says:

    Yeah. I always refer to the unquestionable wisdom of the great Doctor Phil when things get rough.

  9. Emptyell says:

    @ Drivebyposter

    As I guess you’ve figured out by now, dan-o is just terribly impressed with his own cleverness which, apparently only he is clever enough to appreciate. I’m also guessing that he has also seen through the weaknesses in our understanding of evolution, climate change, gravitation, etc as these are only theories.

    He regularly revels in the imagined collapse of the freethought movement as presaged by disagreements within same. It’s actually kinda cute in a strange sort of way.

  10. dano says:

    Walker wins!

  11. Greg Laden says:

    I can’t believe no one has commented on my amazing graphic!!!

  12. nameshame says:

    This is getting way out of hand. DJ had nothing to apologize for as far as I can tell.

    He should stop giving these people attention. He is wasting his time because they are not interested in reasonable, rational discussions on the topic. They have their agenda, and they are going to push it to the end.

    And it won’t even end if DJ steps down.

  13. dan-o says:

    I enjoyed the graphics Greg. Great comparison.

  14. Somite says:

    My first LOL moment in this conversation. You can’t come up with anything yourself so you suggest, of all things, hiring a consultant? What a joke.

    http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1991-06-30/

  15. itzac says:

    dan-o, sorry to disappoint you, but the freethought community is too fractious to collapse from any single event.

    I think DJ’s apology was about as good as it could have been. He might have said, “I shouldn’t have blamed…” instead of “I didn’t mean to blame…” but he’s human, and that’s a pretty fine hair to split.

    Frankly, I think DJ put his finger on a predictable side-effect of what Rebecca is doing. He chose probably the worst possible manner in which to address it, and that’s what I think he needed to apologize for, and that’s what he’s done.

  16. Greg Laden says:

    Somite, we who have come up with “thing” are legion and our ideas are as well. The point of this post is that DJ demonstrated a fixable lack of understanding of the situation, and he followed this with a demonstration of the unwillingness or inability to fix that. That is where consultants come in handy.

    dan-o, sorry to disappoint you, but the freethought community is too fractious to collapse from any single event.

    … in other words… hey, wait a minute …

    what Rebecca is doing

    Rebecca isn’t doing anything. Men and boys trolling the conferences, reddit, elsewhere are doing things, and Rebecca is one of the legion who are reacting.

    It is interesting that DJ has tried to shift the arena for the conversation to being one between him and Rebecca. Nice strategy. Won’t work, though.

  17. nameshame says:

    Greg Laden claims that “DJ demonstrated a fixable lack of understanding of the situation,” but I disagree. Rather, his replies were constantly being twister by others, and he was being viciously attacked for daring to question the Queen’s claims and demands.

    Rebecca isn’t doing anything? Oh, but she is. She is constantly using various tricks to avoid having to respond directly to arguments that undermine her position.

  18. What Nameshame said. I don’t think Grothe has anything to apologize for, I think the people who are after him are basically upset with him for political reasons (basically, he doesn’t share their radical gender politics), and I think those people won’t settle for anything less than a pound of flesh. Grothe should not give it to them. Of course, that said, I do think his apology was a magnanimous gesture, and I think there are things he and JREF can do to make TAM a better environment, including a reasonable anti-harassment policy. I do not think this means adopting the extreme “Geek Feminist” antiharassment policy wholesale however, although I’m sure his critics will try to put pressure on JREF for this and a whole pile of other appeasements. I hope Grothe negotiates, but doesn’t cave.

  19. Greg Laden says:

    Nameshame: The queen? Who is that?

    Iamcur: “radical gender politics”? What is that?

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