If you keep telling them to bring guns, they will eventually start shooting.

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UPDATE (7:50pm Central):

There has been a lot of confusion in details, partly because of the usual blinding incompetence of anyone major news networks deem worthy of putting in front of a camera, partly because the press conference at a hospital will not cover information about those transported to other hospitals or directly to a morgue, and partly because of the high tolerance of those delivering and watching the news to inaccuracy. There is really no other reason for the basic facts to be so incorrect for so long at a highly secured crime scene.

Anyway, the following appears to be pretty accurate, though the exact number wounded remains a bit of a guess.

Suspected Shooter: Jared Lee Loughner
Second Suspected Suspect: Unidentified white male
Weapon: 9mm Glock Model 19 handgun with a 30-round magazine

Killed (6):

-John Roll, 63, a federal district court judge.
-Gabriel Zimmerman, 30, Giffords’ director of community outreach
-Dorwin Stoddard, 76, a pastor at Mountain Ave. Church of Christ.
-Christina Greene, 9, a student at Mesa Verde Elementary
-Dorothy Morris, 76
-Phyllis Schneck, 79

Wounded:
1) U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona
2-14) Unidentified UPDATED: two more than yesterday claimed to be wounded


UPDATE: Giffords is out of surgery but in critical condition. Six were killed. Some information about the shooter is becoming available: Jared Lee Loughner. He had a YouTube channel (see quote below) clearly indicating a very disturbed individual with leanings pretty much as one might expect.

Reporters are, right or wrong (who knows?) using the phrase “bullet through the brain” in relation to Gifford’s injuries. ADDED: The doctor at the hospital news conference states he is optimistic about the outcome. He states that the bullet went through and through, through her brain. He also mentioned that the one dead is a child (9 yrs old). (The number of dead, as usual, fluctuates up and down. Judge John Roll is also dead.)

From HuffPo:

Sarah Palin has posted a statement on Facebook in response to the Arizona shooting involving Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Palin writes:

“My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today’s tragic shooting in Arizona.

On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.”

There is no evidence at this time that the shooting of Giffords was politically motivated, but it’s grimly ironic that the candidate appeared on a map of House Democrats “targeted” by Palin in 2010.

The map controversially used actual target markers on locations these Democrats lived and listed their names.

back to the original post…


We don’t know if this is Michel Bachmann’s Teabaggers shooting Democrats yet, but there are perfectly valid reasons to consider that possibility while investigating the horrific events unfolding as we speak in Arizona.

Representative Gabrielle Giffords, third term Democrat, has been shot in the head, and may or may not have died as of this writing, and several other shot and some killed, at an event in Tuscon.

Giffords, who was re-elected to a third term in November, was hosting a “Congress on Your Corner” event at a Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.

The suspect fired indiscriminately from about four feet away, Michaels said. A congressional official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity that the gunman was using an automatic weapon.

The suspect ran off and was tackled by a bystander. He was taken into custody. Witnesses described him as in his late teens or early 20s. Federal, state and local law enforcement authorities in Arizona are investigating the shooting.

Remember that the Congresswoman’s office was attacked violently by teabaggers during the election.

Anybody know anything else yet?

House Speaker John Boner made a statement about being horrified. Perhaps he should just shut up.

UPDATE: Final words on the shooter’s final video on his YouTube account:]

“In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can’t trust the current government because of the ratification: the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controllin grammar.

No! I won’t pay debt… with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver!

No! I won’t trust in God!”

Here’s one of his videos:

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18 thoughts on “If you keep telling them to bring guns, they will eventually start shooting.

  1. Greg,
    Why do I feel that bachmann and palin are responsible for this in a primary way and the rethuglican leaders join them for not speaking out in reasonable ways?
    Robert

  2. Anybody know anything else yet?

    She’s still in surgery at last word, the docs apparently give her a good chance of recovery. Head wound, though, so no telling what “recovery” means.

    The shooter appears to be in custody; word is a 20-something man who was tackled by a bystander while attempting to run away.

    Apparently twelve people were shot (shooter either had two guns or time to reload) including several of her local staffers.

    Reports are one fatality, Federal District Judge John Roll.

  3. NB: The Arizona constitution requires an election for replacement of any Congressional representative who is unable to complete his or her term of office.

  4. Shooter appears to be named Jared Laughner (22yo) and had an extended magazine; six dead, including a 9yo girl.

    The bullet which struck Rep. Giffords apparently passed through; her surgeons are confident of her recovering. My totally uninformed and inexpert read is that the bullet missed the brain, critical arteries, airway, … Neat trick that. It’s not easy to put a bullet through someone’s head and not do fatal or crippling damage.

  5. Just listened to a news conference-right now they are reporting 18 injured or killed, with 6 confirmed deaths, including a 9 year old girl and the federal judge. Gabrielle Giffords is alive and out of surgery, but not conscious at this point. The shooter reportedly had an automatic rifle (M-16?) and has some disturbing videos posted on YouTube talking about new currency and mind control.

  6. That is one seriously delusional dude. Either he’s so far around the bend that “left” and “right” are meaningless or he’s been laying the grounds for an insanity defense for quite a while.

    Please note that 22yo is right in the window when schizophrenia most often manifests. As $HERSELF puts it, it’s likely that his first real mental-health services will be pretrial.

  7. A congressional official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity that the gunman was using an automatic weapon.

    Machine pistol? Ruling out muskets and 15-shot revolvers?

  8. D.C Sessions. As a Critical Care nurse I can tell you that a bullets either go through and through, or are stopped by the other side of the skull to bounce around and give you a scrambled egg effect–usually leading to death. A through and through is survivable, depending on which part of the brain is struck. Obviously, we need our entire brain, optimally, but a frontal lobe injury is less debilitating (other than the affects on personality and cognition) than a uniformly fatal bullet to the brain stem, which is located, as you would guess, in the back of your head. The amount of disability will depend upon what was hit, and I am sure there will be disability. That fact that she will survive, doesn’t tell us what she will be left with….

  9. Gwen, exactly. It is possible that they’ll be very little damage or damage that will manefest itself very subtly. Or, something like tauma induced CP, or something like a stroke-like damage.

    There are multiple kinds of damage and recovery through that damage is sequential. Most distal to the event of the bullet going through the brain is blood building up pressure and damaging brain tissue, but that is probably the first thing they try to control in surgury, and when the Dr. at the news conference expressed optimism that is probably what he was talking about. Then there is overall swelling, which can be as bad as the blood pooling but can be controlled using a variety of techniques. It can kill you or it can just be bad for a while and go away.

    Then, near the site of the bullet tract or any other physical damage will be traumatized neural tissue, indurated with blood and messed up in other ways, which may very well return to normal but it takes days or weeks. Then, there is the totally destroyed neural tissue which can’t restore, but funciton related to that tissue can restore, or be compensated for, depending on what that function is and what else is going on in the brain. That recovery can take a long time, minimally several weeks, up to several months or even years.

  10. Surprise, surprise. Fox News has already jumped on his story about trying to join the military and writing “none” for religion, and his “I don’t trust in god.”

    Because, clearly, his lack of religion is the most important factor in this. Fuck faux news.

  11. Guy was interviewed on TV last night. He heard the shots and ran out to see what was happening. Saw a man and a woman wrestling with the shooter who was trying to change magazines. The guy helped, got on the shooter and held him down. Law enforcement was there in three or four minutes. The interviewed guy was carrying a gun but did not take it out. Wise of him under the circumstances, I think.

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