1984, the novel

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1984

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

Winston Smith toes the Party line, rewriting history to satisfy the demands of the Ministry of Truth. With each lie he writes, Winston grows to hate the Party that seeks power for its own sake and persecutes those who dare to commit thoughtcrimes. But as he starts to think for himself, Winston can’t escape the fact that Big Brother is always watching…

A startling and haunting vision of the world, 1984 is so powerful that it is completely convincing from start to finish. No one can deny the influence of this novel, its hold on the imaginations of multiple generations of readers, or the resiliency of its admonitions—a legacy that seems only to grow with the passage of time.

Have you read the breakthrough novel of the year? When you are done with that, try:

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496 thoughts on “1984, the novel

  1. So what, if anything, can we do to restrict or de-incentivize the tendency to act solely in self interest? How do we instill a broader interest in the rest of humanity? I don’t know. There has to be more of a sense of connectedness and compassion, but I don’t know how to instill that. And we need a certain amount of self interest IMO . We have to show compassion to ourselves. Also, some part of the population may be genetically/environmentally/statistically likely to be strictly self concerned. And who knows, maybe there is a value in that. Somebody has to bear the ring to Mount Doom.

    Regarding Antarctica and global sea ice extent… one good case scenario is that the climate change is bad enough this year to help leverage the overturning of the Trump juggernaut.

    1. SteveP asks: “what, if anything, can we do to restrict or de-incentivize the tendency to act solely in self interest? How do we instill a broader interest in the rest of humanity? I don’t know. “

      But a preacher knows. BBD knows.

  2. “What does mean “mean”?”

    Yes. What do you mean by “mean”? I cannot tell, you don’t want us to assume.

  3. Our deplorable attorney general has recused himself from the Russia investigation. It is a good day for the Republic. The free press has done its job and kept a backward and over aged little man from acting as an agent to hide whatever it is that Putin-lover -Trump was trying to hide.

    While I am not looking forward to president Pence, I am so looking forward to seeing Paulie Ryan having that smug smile wiped off his face, the day his perfect fascist father figure presidentoid gets impeached.

  4. The hits just keep on coming. Jared Kushner and Mike Flynn met with the Russians in December – announced by the NYT and mentioned by the White House.

    I don’t think this will lead to Trump’s removal — even if things far more damning show up, this won’t rank a real investigation by the Republicans because it isn’t a (fake) issue about a private email server, or a (fake) issue about Sec of State getting people killed in Libya, or any of the other (fake) issues they were concerned with prior to the election. But it is another source of distraction for the White House.

    1. dean writes: or a (fake) issue about…” (fill in some blanks)

      There is no such thing as a fake issue. A thing is either an issue or it is not; but it won’t be an issue to all persons. Therefore it would be more accurate to say that certain things are not an issue to you, when those things happen to have been done by your team, but they become an issue to people not on your team. Conversely, Donald Trump’s ties to Russia are not yet a big issue to me, but seem to be an issue to you.

      Therefore all issues are *personal*..

  5. You have told us nothing about what you mean by those words, M2, therefore I completely skipped them after noting they contained no dictionary entries for the words you use.

    Until you provide one, we cannot understand what you mean and how to respond.

    1. Wow writes: “we cannot understand what you mean”

      Doubtless true but how many of you are in there?

  6. Intercepted phone call from Vladimir Putin to Sergey Kislyak..

    “Hey Sergey. This is Vlad. Look, keep meeting anybody you can on Trump’s team. You are doing a great job! Right. The CIA is of course tracking your every move and stupidly reporting on it, so you are giving the Ciphers group a field day. They’ve broken CIA codes that would have taken days to crunch with our quantum rigs. ??????? ??????! ???????? ???!”

  7. Still no dictionary, so your query there is meaningless since you haven’t defined what you mean by “how” or “many” yet. Nor what you define the words I used to mean, so the answer could be billions or dishwasher for all anyone else can know.

    There’s more than three of us, by the way.

    You,
    Me.
    Dick here.

    Which rather indicates that you need to define your words for us, since they are currently meaningless drivel to everyone here.

    1. Meet Clay Routledge, a social psychologist and Professor of Psychology at North Dakota State University. Professor Routledge studies such things as intergroup relations and how people create meaning in their lives. He has over 90 scholarly papers and has authored the book
      “Nostalgia: A Psychological Resource.”

      “I previously discussed the religious mind in terms of cognitive traits. A lot of the postmodern fields have characteristics that are very similar to religion. They are non-empirical. They prioritize subjective feelings (intuition). They also have a religious fundamentalism quality. That is, they are not friendly to those who challenge postmodern orthodoxy, inject morality into their work, ostracize or punish dissenters, and treat certain views as inherently true and sacred. Social science should be based on empirical evidence. It should be distinct from religion. Many postmodernists are blurring the line, in my opinion.”

      [http]://quillette.com/2017/02/23/on-meaning-identity-politics-and-bias-in-the-academy-an-interview-with-clay-routledge/

    2. Wow writes: “There’s more than three of us, by the way.”

      I suspected as much.

  8. So Trump supporters pretty much believe anything he says or tweets. They have already succumbed to authoritarian propaganda. I suspect that Trump didn’t read 1984 in his prep school. Or if he did, he identified with the bad guys.

    An awful lot of what Trump says or tweets is incorrect, misrepresentative, distorted, often hypocritical, bull shit.
    Trump seems to have learned, in his years as a television impresario, that the attention span and intellectual acuity of his base are, overall, not too impressive. So he is riding the wave of their gullibility, and hoping that he can convince enough people that its okay for him to have a little bromance with a vicious dictator , while his country is on the edge of a second cold war with the country run by said vicious dictator. Nothing to see here. Move along. Just a little treachery.

    1. SteveP writes “So Trump supporters pretty much believe anything he says or tweets.”

      This may come as a shock, but I think that’s the nature of supporters. It is what they do.

      “I suspect that Trump didn’t read 1984 in his prep school. Or if he did, he identified with the bad guys.”

      I like your style of argumentation; he did or he didn’t.

      I appreciate that you’ve invoked “1984”; a rarity on a page dedicated to that topic.

  9. “An awful lot of what Trump says or tweets is incorrect, misrepresentative, distorted, often hypocritical, bull shit.”

    That is the type of stuff his supporters can handle: small words, short sentences, feeding to their racism, bigotry, and lack of acceptance of facts.

  10. The whole Breitbart phenomenon is troubling. Trump just tweeted a picture from the front page of Breitbart. So this man, the man in charge, supposedly, of the nation, is apparently totally in sync with the fascist, anti-semitic, racist rag formerly run by one of his chief advisors. He believes Alex Jones. I wonder if Trump is too ” stoopit” to know the difference between a reputable and a non reputable source of information. Or does he simply realize that the people who delivered him the election resonate to that crap? Or does he just follow orders from Steve Bannon?

    1. Steve writes: “I wonder if Trump is too stoopit to know the difference between a reputable and a non reputable source of information.”

      One way to resolve your uncertainty is to ask him. Another way is to apply the usual leftwing approach to this question: Good and reputable is Democrat, bad and disreputable is Republican. Assuming of course you are a Democrat. If not, it is the other way round.

  11. Or does he simply realize that the people who delivered him the election resonate to that crap?

    Ding ding ding ding ding – winner right there.

  12. “Good and reputable is Democrat, bad and disreputable is Republican”

    We know you are stupid Michael 2, because you say things like this, apparently because you believe it to be true.

    1. dean writes: “We know you are stupid Michael 2, because you say things like this, apparently because you believe it to be true.”

      While obvious (that I write what I believe is true), I appreciate the observation.

      These tweet-sized observations and declarations sometimes do not include nuances that can shade one’s interpretations.

  13. Dean writes “small words, short sentences, feeding to their racism, bigotry, and lack of acceptance of facts.”

    Written using small words, short sentences, feeding to your prejudices. 🙂

  14. One of two of us paid attention to the type of people who supported Trump, me, and noted the racist and bigoted crap they spewed each time they had the chance.

    The person who noted those things wasn’t you.

    So it isn’t prejudice, it is observation.

    1. dean writes: “So it isn’t prejudice, it is observation.”

      That’s a pretty good line that I use on the leftwing when I make an observation that has racial, gender, height, age, ability, disability, education, language, lactose tolerance, latitude or longitude components by which one person can be distinguished from another however slightly.

  15. So you still aren’t letting anyone know what you want your words to mean.

    Well, I guess that means there’s nothing to argue over, eh? After all, if you don’t know what you mean, how can we get it right?

    Hell, you can’t even count.

  16. We know what he means. Anyone not like him is inferior and are for exploitation over anything else. That’s the libertarian way.

    1. dean “Anyone not like him is inferior”

      On average that will be correct. Occasionally I meet someone superior.

  17. Carter Page, dissembling Russian suck up weasel for Trump, is doing the rounds on the talk shows these days. Smiling Russian loving liar.

    Gee. why do I think that Trump’s mental sharpness is on a sharp decline these days? How long before we have a Bannon led government with puppet Trump mouthing lines the way the failing Ronald Reagan was.. Funny that Trump’s aircraft carrier speech was practically gibberish, and yet he tweets coherently. Odd. Oh that’s right, he tweeted exactly what you might expect Steve Bannon to tweet. What a coincidence!!!!

    1. SteveP asks: “why do I think that Trump’s mental sharpness is on a sharp decline these days?”

      Asking others for the reasons for your own thoughts isn’t exactly a demonstration of your own mental sharpness.

  18. “Wow writes: “Well, I guess that means there’s nothing to argue over”

    Yes.”

    So can I ask what the fuck are you doing? Or is that too human for you?

    1. Wow writes: “So can I ask what the fuck are you doing?”

      Yes.

      Not only that, just in case you do actually get around to asking (not just whether you can ask) I will pro-actively answer the implied question.

      I came here to discuss George Orwell’s “1984”. You do not seem to be discussing George Orwell’s “1984” so a better question is why are you here?

  19. “dean “Anyone not like him is inferior”

    On average that will be correct”

    No, that would be all the time, M2. Unless you’re in a psychiatric ward.

  20. “Asking others for the reasons for your own thoughts isn’t ”

    what he’s doing.

    So you are, again, 100% wrong. Remember: there’s nothing to argue here:you are 100% wrong.

    1. Wow “Remember: there’s nothing to argue here:you are 100% wrong.”

      The only way to be 100 percent wrong is to actually be 100 percent correct so as to know which wrong answers to give. But out of humility I try not to appear 100 percent correct.

  21. Gee. why do I think that Trump’s mental sharpness is on a sharp decline these days?

    BZZZT. Assumes Trump was sharp to begin with.

    1. Julian Frost, trying to be clever with insult, suggests: “Assumes Trump was sharp to begin with.”

      A reasonable assumption. I suppose somewhere is a “Julian Frost Towers” that perhaps I have not heard of, and a Julian Frost celebrity television show, and your name is known worldwide.

      If not, perhaps he has some sharpness that you lack. Maybe a bit of luck and doubtless a lot of ambition.

  22. “I came here to discuss George Orwell’s “1984””

    And immediately began telling lies and playing word games that showed you had never read it.

  23. You are, however, 100% wrong. There’s no argument about this. It’s just a fact.

    PS dean, we don’t know he doesn’t mean “troll the shit out” by “talk about 1984”, but we also have nothing to say that he’s not just butthurt and trying to force everyone else back to talking about the novel while he regroups his egoforce. Remember, we can’t limit him to the meaning of his words. Any of his words. Therefore the above is completely plausibly in play here.

    1. Wow “trying to force everyone else back to talking about the novel”

      It was worth a try 😉

      After all, it is the topic of this blog page.

  24. Remember too his first post was quoting this;

    “I asked what conservatives think about their own cruelty.”

    so it clearly doesn’t mean what the words say, and the butthurting scenario is far more reliably supported by his efforts.

  25. I came here to discuss George Orwell’s “1984”.

    Another lie. First comment on the thread is a veritable screed and not a word about 1984.

    M2 came here to peddle bullshit, as always.

    1. BBD writes “M2 came here to peddle bullshit, as always.”

      I see a few people happy to wallow in it. 😉

  26. Remember, no words M2 knows the meaning of. Including “lie”. Which is why there’s no argument here:it’s just a fact. M2 is lying his shyster arse off.

  27. In case y’all are wondering how we got here, it took only three messages for Wow to turn this thread from “1984” to republicans.

    I came here to explore Orwell’s “1984”; you have perhaps noticed (or will do so now) that I have skipped involvement in an unknown number of other topics of less interest to me but presumably of greater interest to you.

    Having arrived, I joined the conversation where Steve and Rick are arguing about conservatives. Since the word doesn’t actually have any meaning of its own, beyond “conserve” and asserting nothing about what exactly is being conserved, it is always good for a few dozen comments.

    When things start to slow down I toss in a word, “Libertarian” and BBD rises to the bait. He hates libertarians while not knowing exactly what one is, because it isn’t a thing; it is a word that describes a property of a person but says nothing about other properties of that person, except of course to him since he has it all figured out.

    So there we are; it is unclear why Greg Laden posted only some excerpts from the book and has sat back to watch the show.

  28. You aren’t arguing, M2, you’re just wrong. Everyone knows that you’re wrong and you’re a moron.

    These are facts, not opinions.

  29. So the so called president of the USA is apparently channeling the spirit of Breitbart news in his latest paranoid rant.He is apparently a flaming conspiracy nut, a believer in, and a relay station for conspiracy websites. If he were just a paranoid nut, that would be bad enough. But he is also a man sickly obsessed with ratings, and his ratings have not been too good of late.

    Trump needs to be eased out of office before he does any more damage than he already has. He gave us a clue about how to do this in his latest string of tweets. He is, as he slyly projected on the former president, sick. Time for Melania to send in a note to the Oval office staff and the Congress saying that Donnie can’t come in to work today because he is sick. Or tomorrow. In fact, he is going to be out for a long long time.

  30. It is clearer now than ever that Trump, the son of a KKK sympathizer, Steve Bannon, the former leader of Breitbart news, [a racists, xenophobic, anti-semitic mouthpiece organ,] and Stephen Miller, the confused, racist Trump advisor, are all bent on leading the nation into white nationalism. Trump started his campaign for president by maligning Mexicans. His border wall is a big symbol of white nationalism for those easily manipulated by symbols, i.e., his base.

    And what an ugly band of crippled chickens he has assembled to lead his white nationalist army. Hardly symbolic of any supposed white racial superiority. Not one of them has the science chops to be able to grasp basic climatology. Nothing more than a deluded band of scared mental defectives who are great a lying to their easily deluded followers, and the lot of whom are easily swayed by half assed political fairy tale novels by right wing writers. Not very impressive. But they are at the helm, and they must be removed. Soon.

  31. “So there we are; it is unclear why Greg Laden posted only some excerpts from the book and has sat back to watch the show.”

    No, the only thing that is unclear is why you continue to misrepresent the goings on. Is it because, as seems most likely, you are congenital liar, or is it because you are a simple-minded troll with no ability to carry on a meaningful discussion? Both of these conditions fit with the libertarian handle, so both are plausible.

  32. Antarctic sea ice extent is currently at the lowest level ever recorded during the satellite era. Global sea ice extent is the lowest ever recorded for this day of the year. Meanwhile, the Republican science deniers are working through with their alternative “facts”. They are continuing to characterize attempts to prevent climate catastrophe as liberal/communist inspired attempts to attack Murka. Meanwhile, the Trump camp continues to deny their love of Puting and to lie about anything that suits them to lie about. Which is just about everything. We are perilously close to going full bore 1984 here. How truly embarrassing for the white race. Trump has not a fraction of the challenges that his Black predecessor had at this point in his presidency, , and he is already folding like a child. Sad. Very sad. Republicans, please get your loser out of the Oval Office before he hurts anybody else.

  33. Its because M2 wants his aberrant stupidity to be someone else’s fault, dean.

    No other purpose to it.

  34. SteveP says “Antarctic sea ice extent is currently at the lowest level ever recorded during the satellite era.”

    And this is true.

    However, Antarctic sea ice reached new successive all time maximums (during the satellite era) in 2012, 2013 and 2014.

    That is true also.

    So, do you think the large swing between record maximums and a record minimum (in the satellite era) is caused by climate change?

    Or might it be the result of other factors?

    Personally, I don’t think the science is settled on this issue.

    What does everybody else think about this issue?

  35. The Antarctic, unlike the Arctic, has a large continent in the middle of it, you know, the place called Antarctica. That continent has a lot of frozen water on top of it, and that water is clearly melting around the margins of the continent. This changes the salinity of the surrounding sea water, making it easier to freeze, up to a point. However, when the temperature of the surrounding water is simply above the freezing point of that particular saline solution, that saline solution is not going to freeze. That is what I think is happening now.

    But even pointing to the little peaks of 2012, 2013, and 2014 as your metric of choice, they do not hold any significant weight against the steady downward trend in , not just total GLOBAL l sea ice extent , but also sea ice volume. Remember, Antarctic sea ice is ephemeral. Most of it melts away every Antarctic summer.

    As to your statement that you “don’t think” that “the science” is settled on this issue; yes that is clearly the case. You are not showing any evidence that you have thought out this problem in depth, but instead appear to be relying on feel-good factoids and the tired old “not settled” meme from the propaganda mills. The Grace satellites have shown a great decrease in the mass of Antarctic and Greenland land ice. “The science is not settled” is , IMO, a propaganda meme. What part of “the science” are you referring to? Certainly not infrared interaction with the carbon dioxide molecule. Certainly not the steady decade to decade decrease of total global sea ice extent AND volume. Certainly not the rise in global sea level. Certainly not the rise of surface temperatures faster than stratospheric temperatures. Certainly not the inability of the solar energy output to account for rising surface temperatures. Certainly not the inability of the current warming to match the geological evidence consistent with Milankovitch glacial cycles. Certainly not the 2.4 million pounds of carbon dioxide that we are putting into the air every second.

    If you look at the evidence objectively, IMO, it is very very very difficult to deny that fossil fuel carbon dioxide is warming the planet’s surface. I see absolutely no evidence to dispute that. The science is clearly settled. To feel otherwise is wishy feely hopey, but it is not objective science. I wish, feel, hope that people would at least learn to think for themselves and face the fact that the temperature is rising, and that it COULD have enormous significance for future generations. I wish, feel, hope that people would start to treat science and scientists as valuable members of society who actually contribute to the strength of our society, instead of treating them like criminals. That would be a great start.

  36. RickA has previously shared with us that he has a set of lucrative investments dependent on continued use of fossil fuels.

    He cares not a whit about “teh science” involved in this — other than to repeatedly attempt to obfuscate and drum up doubt towards science and evidence — all to try to “protect” his investments in whatever dishonest and underhanded means possible.

    I think we should band together and make RickA start to pay for damages that anthropogenic global warming is causing.

    Because RickA is part of the growing problem.

    What is everyone else’s poison on RickA being part of the problem? (He said brightly.)

  37. SteveP #463:

    I am talking about sea ice extent, not the ice on the continent.

    Here is a link to my source:

    https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum

    So what caused the antarctic sea ice extent to hit new record highs three years in a row, and now what is causing the antarctic sea ice extent to drop in 2015 and hit a record low (in the satellite era) in 2016?

    Is it down to climate change?

    Or might these stark opposite records have something to do with something else?

    I don’t know the answer.

    One thought I had is could the el nino of 2015-2016 have something to do with it?

    Again, I don’t know if the warmer water from an el nino gets down to Antarctica or not.

    The question is, how much of what is happening in Antarctica, and specifically sea ice extent, is caused by human emitted CO2?

    I don’t know the answer.

    I think we need to keep gathering climate data, worldwide, for another 30, 60, 100 years and maybe in 30 more years, we will be able to answer some of the questions we still have.

    Maybe there is some cycle which swaps back and forth between the northern and southern hemispheres every 30 years, decreasing ice extent in one hemisphere and decreasing it in another, and then switching.

    Again, I don’t know.

    The data from 1979 to the present is pretty short term to answer questions about potential issues which may have 30 or 60 year cycles (or centennial or millennial).

    So we need more data.

    Hopefully everybody agrees that one of the best things we could do is keep gathering data, and keep putting new instruments out, so we don’t have to interpolate but can actually get measured data, worldwide, in the ocean, of ice extent, on land and in the atmosphere, and from space.

    I am in favor of that.

  38. RickA – there are significant differences in the northern and southern polar regions. You really ought to look at a globe or map sometime.

    Antarctica is a land mass surrounding the south pole with 2/3 of the area South of 70S land surrounded by ocean.

    The Arctic is just the opposite with 2/3 of the area North of 70N water surrounded by land.

    These two facts alone should tell you that trying to compare sea ice for polar regions is a fool’s errand.

    So, rather than focusing on sea ice you should focus on all ice. And there you find that both polar regions are losing mass.

    Maybe start here: https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/land-ice/

  39. Dick at 468, the winter extent is meaningless: it’s been 6 months freezing. It’s the summer minimum ice extent that shows warming.

    You know this, but you have to lie and misrepresent.

  40. “I meant to say –decreasing ice extent in one hemisphere and increasing–”

    And that’s another load of deneir horse-shit. It’s like losing your life savings then getting a discount on a packet of peanuts. Sure you gained in one area and lost in another, but one is rather bigger.

    Again, though, you know you’re lying your arse off here.

  41. RickA #465

    I am talking about sea ice extent, not the ice on the continent.

    So was SteveP #463: Try reading again with understanding.

  42. It is difficult to get a man to understand when his significant fossil fuel industry investments depend on his not understanding.
    — Upton Sinclair

  43. So we need more data.

    Transient response to 120ppm CO2 = 1C

    Case closed. Time to talk emissions reduction policy.

  44. BBD #475:

    You are assuming all warming since pre-industrial is caused by CO2.

    We don’t know that.

    In fact, since global temperatures have dropped from the el nino, we know that at least 1/5 of this rise is actually natural and not caused by CO2.

    But we can still talk about emissions reduction policy.

    I prefer nuclear power as a mechanism to reduce emissions.

  45. You are assuming all warming since pre-industrial is caused by CO2.

    We don’t know that.

    Oh yes we do. You might pretend we don’t but that doesn’t make any difference to the facts.

    And you can shitcan the nuclear trolling. You’ve more than overplayed that card now.

  46. “You are assuming all warming since pre-industrial is caused by CO2.”

    No assumption needed. The other forcings from both orbital and negative natural forcings as well as the particulates we emit cooling the system are all negative.

    The problem is you’re clueless and hope everyone else is worse than you are.

  47. Brainstorms #478:

    Why?

    Oil will just get more expensive as we use more of it up.

    Supply and demand.

    The demand will keep increasing and the supply (well it will keep increasing also – but maybe not as fast as the demand).

    We will see I guess.

    I have already made 46.90% and RDS.B pays a yield of 6.72%.

    I think I will hang onto this stock for the foreseeable future.

    You can sell your oil stock(s) if you want.

    This is what makes the market work – millions of individual decisions.

  48. “Oil will just get more expensive as we use more of it up.”

    And use will drop.

    And the trillions in “reserves” will become as worthless as they were in 1900.

  49. Brainstorms #481:

    Well, if I could manipulate the market, any more than I can already by buying and selling securities, I certainly wouldn’t manipulate it against my favor!

    I am pretty sure the entire premise of the stock market is to invest money and grow it, not shrink it.

  50. No, the stock market is now about rent seeking and parasitism. And high frequency trading has given the top dogs even more ridiculously fatuous ways to scam the poorer people (even the fairly rich) out of money by a whole shitload of fuck all.

  51. This good truly does not grow old, instead it grows with the era. It becomes less of a story and more of a warning. As time goes on more things become really similar to what happen in the story. This book is a bug influence on many. Telling them to not take their freedom for granted and to never let someone get this powerful. Winston was not a prole but instead worked for the party by changing the past. This gave the reader a different point of view, someone in the loop wanting to fight back. Since he did what he did he knew how the Party worked. He knew that they had the power to change the past which helped them to control the future. It was just another way for them to gain control and keep it over the people. It made it easy for them to get the proles to love Big Brother. It was so written in a third person limited point of view so the reader only knew as much as Winston did. It created a lot os suspense because we were just wondering and waiting. It will always keep us wondering because there was some stuff unexplained and Winston never knew or found out the information so we will never know. It will always keep us questioning an wondering. When Winston had the dream about O’Brien telling him that “they would meet where there was no darkness” was crazy. O’Brien started watching Winston the same time he had the dream so was the party somehow able to implant a dream into him? Do they do this a lot to catch people and fix them. How did Winston have that dream and then it came true? It’s a crazy twist. Also Winston’s dream about Julia came true. How she throw her clothes to the side to say that she wasn’t completely with the Party. How did Winston have these dreams and how did they manage to come true?

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