And apparently that’s the only state where you can do that.
So, what’s the score card:
Number of times a mass killer started shooting people on campus but a student, staff member, or faculty member pulled out a gun and ended it right there: 0
Number of times a student was walking along on campus with a legal weapon concealed, that happened to be loaded and with no safety, and the gun went off and he ended up shooting himself in the leg: 1
We are not impressed.
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I’m impressed that it’s not 0 to 47, which is more what I’d expect. Give ’em time, I guess.
Hey, the NH House just passed a bill that would allow concealed carry on campus. If I am not mistaken, it would allow it without permit.
The governor plans to veto it, but he’s been overturned before, so now would be the time to place your bets.
Texas came very close to passing concealed carry for students this last year. I always have thought that testosterone, youth, and bullets are a helluva combination….
Assuming one holds an Oregon concealed weapons permit, it’s legal in Oregon. It had been banned by many colleges and universities (including all of the public Oregon University System universities) as campus policy, but
a recent court case overruled them.
It’d be interesting to know what kind of gun it was, and how this happened. Most modern firearms are very difficult to discharge accidentally. It’s probably a safe assumption that most “accidental” discharges in fact occur when someone is intentionally doing something stupid.
Of course, being shot by someone who was intentionally doing something stupid is no better than being shot through pure accident. OTOH, some nimrod shooting himself while intentionally doing something stupid would have some degree of poetic justice to it.
And that’s why there needs to be much stricter requirements for gun ownership (never mind whether people should even be able to carry on college campuses); it needs to be at least as strict as having a drivers license, and even that isn’t terribly rigorous (at least, not in the states I’ve lived in).
I spent the better part of three hours with my brother rolling our eyes in our CCDW class as only some of the most obvious points of gun law, operation, and ownership were quoted at us (keep the gun pointed away from you, only clean the gun when it’s unloaded, don’t point a gun at someone unless you plan on shooting them, etc.) And the instructor very obviously pointed out the ones that would be on what was laughably called a “test” at the end of the session.
Just because you have a concealed carry permit doesn’t mean you know how to operate the gun you’re using. Listening to some of the
participantsidiots in our class, it really worried me that many of the people around me would not only legally be able to carry lethal weapons, it would give them the false confidence that a piece of plastic magically made them gun-savvy while not having the slightest bit of understanding about the consequences and responsibilities that the permit carries with it.The only part of my course that was even marginally difficult was having to hit an immobile 3’x5′ target at an indoor range ten times from a distance of 7 feet. And that would only have been difficult if I physically had to spit the bullets at the target.
There are many concealable weapons today have no safeties. I have a small .38 special revolver and a Glock handgun (both purchased brand new). The former has no safeties, and Glock handguns only have trigger safeties. So if the trigger of either catches on something (say, a bit of loose fabric or a pen in the pocket of your jeans), it can very easily discharge. A lot of cops carry Glocks because it’s a very accurate and reliable handgun, but you would be surprised at the number that accidentally shoot themselves just drawing the gun from the holster (it isn’t a commonplace occurrence, but the number of times it does happen is surprising, nonetheless, because this kind of thing happens even to trained police officers).
Does someone need to have a permit to carry an unconcealed brain in Utah or is that banned?
Have the people who insist that college students be allowed to carry concealed weapons ever been on a college campus? Have they met any college students? Do the words ‘all-nighter’ and ‘kegger’ ring any bells?
When my very pro-gun coworkers get going about self defense I always pose a Virginia Tech question. “There is a gunman/gunmen some where on campus. Buildings are on lock down. When you look out a classroom door you see a person holding a hand gun, what do you do?” How do you distinguish an attacker from another self defense person? How do you avoid being mistaken for the attacker?
If we were an arm nation as some would want it would only take a single shot to set of a cascade reaction.
Good question.
Even though the military trains 18 years olds to handle automatic weapons and then sends them into combat, it just isn’t possible for a trained civilian to responsible and safely carry a concealed gun and perhaps use it in self-defense, without killing numerous by-standers. So obviously the best self-defense option is to lock the door, then hide under a desk curled up and whimpering.
“The USA needs guns like it needs a hole in the head.”
(I think I am quoting an advert from the anti-NRA from many years ago.)
@Mr. Ed,
You make an excellent point.
Didn’t the one guy who actually had a gun at the Gabrielle Giffords’ shooting come very close to killing the person who had finally taken the gun away from Loughner? If everyone there had had guns, how much more chaos and death would have ensued?
The Arizona state legislature is going to try (again) to pass a law like this. They failed about a year ago under protest from the state universities, but the gun lobby is strong here and they are going to keep trying until they pass something. I wonder how many circular firing squads it will take before they realize it is a bad idea.
Apparently so.
But ignoring the real-world data. Do you support requiring people to have the kind of how-to-use-it and respect-for-it training the military provides in order to purchase and carry a firearm? Do you support background checks, licensing, confiscation of weapons when abuse occurs, and other steps to restrict firearm ownership to the responsible?
If not, then shut the fuck up.
Zugswang:
I would include having a loose gun jostling around with various other crap in your pocket (or purse, backpack, whatever) under “intentionally doing something stupid”. Which, of course, doesn’t mean that people don’t do it, or that it isn’t a safety concern when it comes to random folks who may or may not have a clue what they’re doing but are nonetheless wandering around with guns.
It may be a pedantic point, but any well-designed modern firearm is not going to discharge unless the trigger is pulled; that doesn’t mean there aren’t any number of stupid ways to unintentionally pull the trigger, but it does mean that the gun doesn’t simply “go off” on its own. It goes off because the trigger was pulled.
It may be a pedantic point, but any well-designed modern firearm is not going to discharge unless the trigger is pulled; that doesn’t mean there aren’t any number of stupid ways to unintentionally pull the trigger, but it does mean that the gun doesn’t simply “go off” on its own. It goes off because the trigger was pulled.
Actually, we have no way of knowing that, do we? Which consumer protection agency sort of entity has the data on testing, what are the testing protocols, what independent agency designates guns as safe and keeps track of incidents and issues recalls, etc?
And what laws are there restricting guns owned to “well-designed” modern firearms?
Azkyroth
Perhaps you could try carefully reading what I wrote before telling me to “… shut the fuck up.”
Did you ever hear of sarcasm? I was implying that a trained civilian can responsible and safely carry a concealed gun, just like a trained soldier does. The whole point of allowing licensed concealed carry is to insure public safety while also respecting the right of self-defense. A college campus is no different than any other public location.
The Second Amendment of our Constitution is intended to protect citizens from government abuse by insuring the means to rebel. Remember that American Colonists were able to fight a war against abuse by the British government because they were armed? Now, in the name of public safety, you tell us trust a government to license weapons and restrict firearm ownership!
So to be absolutely clear
While reasonable background checks for gun buyers, are largely meaningless since true enforcement of all sells is impossible.
We have already enforceable laws for confiscation of weapons when abuse occurs.
I don’t trust our government licensing and requiring people to have the kind of how-to-use-it and respect-for-it training the military provides in order to purchase and carry a firearm!
I don’t trust our government taking other steps to restrict firearm ownership to the responsible!
Paul
Correction: there are other states where firearms are allowed on campus. See the link in your source. However, it’s one campus each in MI and VA, and any campus in CO. So really not that many.