Consider this:
Apart from “Windows or Linux?” nothing will start an argument in a bar full of techies quicker than, “Which hardware gives you more bang for the buck, Mac or PC?”
It turns out that they are the same, but Mac’s are more expensive.
Hey, don’t yell at me, it says so here.
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My father asked the “Mac or PC” question a few days ago, to which I of course responded “THEY ARE BOTH PCs!”.
The real question should of course be Mac or non-Mac, but the answer is the same.
That right there makes me not trust anything in that article. Core i7 is Nehalem, it’s not just similar.
The little power cord input jack on my son’s ‘powerbook’ broke (from stepping on the cord, etc…)and we could no longer charge the comp.
This was just a little flippin’ jack … we could have fixed it ourselves … but…you can’t buy parts for those comps. $350.00 to fix it – screw that.
We parted it out on e bay and bought a brand new HP Pavilion for him with what we brought in.
Court: Well, the Core i7 is a subset of Nehalem.. Yes, though, that paragraph is borked, but assuming that the whole article is borked because one paragraph is messed up (a paragraph regarding a fairly complex issue) is not logical. Or at least it is bad inductive logic. Now, if you find three or four things that are messed up ….
Stacy: I had that happen too.
Stacy –
I had that happen and just re-formed the jack with plasticine. It meant I couldn’t take the cord out again, but it worked.
I still can’t seem to part with that one either. It is really pretty non-functional, but I put a lot of work into keeping it’s bits together enough to work for me until I got my first brand new computer. It is literally held together bits of bass wood and sheet metal – I fear it would eventually catch fire if I actually turned it on and left it on. But I’m pretty fond of it, for all it’s faults.
I use macs mostly because they just seem to fit my personal preferences better. But I’m open to using PCs and Linux boxes too, so when someone comes out with a “PC’s are less expensive article” – I go take a look. Now I actually just bought one of the new mac mini’s – I’ve been looking to upgrade my home server, which is a several generations old G4 mac tower. I was looking at both PCs and Macs. So I looked at this article and followed the trail to look at the specs of the Asus Nova P22. Yes, it is less expensive than the mac mini, but it fails to meet my needs on several key points:
1) According to the reviews I just found, the 1GB of RAM in the Asus is not upgradable. The basic Mini comes with 1GB, but can be upgraded to 4GB. One review noted that the Asus was “sluggish” as a result of the memory limitations.
2) The Mini has a FW800 port and 5 USB ports, The Asus has 4 USB ports. I was looking for something with either a FW or eSATA port.
3) I’m still trying to determine whether the Asus has digital audio out. I suspect not since I would think Asus would advertise this fact – I can’t find a manual on line, and that’s another strike against the Asus (poor support). The Mini clearly does have digital audio out.
4) The Mini supports 2 monitors, while the Asus can only handle 1.
Now, for someone who doesn’t need these features, The Asus may be a better deal. However, these two systems are not comparable, and I found that when I went to the PC vendors’ sites and configured a system that met my needs, it was about the same price as a mini or frequently even more. Also, I have a significant investment in Mac software, which would make switching to a Windows machine much more expensive. This is a cost that needs to be taken into account whichever way you go.
Of course, if one buys a MAC, one can also run Windows and several Linux operating systems at the same time using Parallels or Fusion. That is, provided one installs sufficient memory.
I too had a power cord jack blow out of an old Presario long ago, and I too ended up soldering the wire directly to the board…
Edward, you might want to also check out the Acer Aspire AL5100-U3790A. In regards to software, if you keep up with a site like Lifehacker, you know that there are free alternatives to everything.
It’s not primarily about mac versus PC. It’s about mac vs PC and what d’you want to do with the hundreds of quid change left over from buying a better spec comp for less money.
If you wanna do creative work, PC has the same apps that run the same speed on a PC for less money. If you wanna do business computing, the extra cost of the mac can never be justified, ever.
If you wanna mess around in geek mode, any linux PC will give you all the unixy goodness you need at a fraction of the cost.
In short; there are absolutely zero circumstances in which it is worth buying a mac, ever.
With respect to Edward above, comparing one particular brand of PC with limitations doesn’t count. D’you want a replacement server that’s small in size, or a dual monitor desktop comp? Even the firewire ports can be obtained for PCs.
There are some things PCs have that you just can’t get on a Mac. Last year, I had to use Microsoft Visio a lot for my senior project in college. It was so annoying when I went to the school computer lab and all the PCs were taken and the Macs didn’t have Visio. I asked the people in charge when they would get the Mac version of Visio, and they said it doesn’t exist. Eventually a friend got me a copy of it for my own computer, and everything worked out. I hope that a Mac version of it is made eventually, for the sake of all the other students who need to use it.
Last time I priced out a Mac laptop against a PC, they came out close to even on the features, but the Mac lacked one feature, mouse buttons, that I need. That is, the Mac was more expensive but had more gadgets (except one) built in. With PC vendors cutting prices and Apple not, there is probably a premium again, but it’s not as large as some people say.
The people who should pay the premium are the people who would otherwise call you up and ask you to fix their broken MSWindows software configuration.
RE: Viso On Mac
Never.Going.To.Happen.
But yeah the whole “Pc vs. Mac” argument went out the window when apple decided to run Intel chips and nvidia graphics. It’s more of an argument of “Windows vs. OS X”, which I always though apple was a bunch of jerks for not letting me run OS X on my home built rig (not that I’d really want to[Hackintosh a netbook?]). Big issue with Macs – harder to upgrade hardware (can’t just throw whatever motherboard, video card etc. into it). Much harder to make a frankenputer from old units (which I do a lot of). Also I don’t think Apple’s cases are in ATX form factor (I very well could be wrong, but I’ve been inside a bunch and they seem to be different to me)
The terminology has gotten terribly muddled.
“Mac” is a product line and a brand.
“PC” is an architecture.
Pre-2005, “Power Macintosh” Macs were not PCs.
Post-2005 Intel Macs are PCs.
Compare this to Microsoft’s XBOX line. The original XBOX was a PC, but the current XBOX 360 is not.
Presumably Apple will hold to its present course, but if it were, say, to decide to switch its entire desktop line over to some derivation of the iPhone’s architecture, then Macs would not be PCs anymore.
Asking “Is A Mac better than a PC” is like asking “Is a Toyota better than a diesel truck?”
(All that said, I do find the new Mac mini to be a terrible disappointment. Surely Apple could have sprung for at least a Core 2 Quad?)
It’s more of an argument of “Windows vs. OS X”, which I always though apple was a bunch of jerks for not letting me run OS X on my home built rig (not that I’d really want to[Hackintosh a netbook?]).
While still not allowed per se, it has been rapidly getting easier of late. One can now (using a custom bootloader) install and boot retail OS X on a generic PC; “hacked” copies are no longer needed. As the new Mini hardly closes the gap at the low end of Apple’s desktop line, I imagine this will become more commonplace.
Zirp, you are technically correct, but people say “PC” to mean a PC with windows on it. Not even Linux … that would be a “Linux machine” to the common masses and a “Linux box” to geeks.
Of course, since Mac OS X runs on *nix, and Linux has also come to stand in for *nix, then the world can be divided into two categories:
PC’s (running Windows); and
Linux (running Linux or OS X)
Greg:
I know that a lot of people do get Unix and Linux confused, but I wouldn’t think you would, even just to make a point. Unix is Unix, and trademark aside Linux, MacOS X, *BSD, and Solaris are subsets thereof. (Except for Mac and *BSD, they’re mutually exclusive subsets on top of it.)
As for expense, I think most of us Mac fans have been used to that for some time. I’ve always liked the Mac as a platform though; the simple fact is that unless Apple opens up cloning again, it’s the full top-to-bottom platform that users are paying for. (I wish I could say the same about the iPhone and iPod touch; while I like the hardware, Apple has screwed the pooch with the business model there.)
As an aside, however, I still have a soft spot for the Classic MacOS, and often wish the Copland project hadn’t crashed and burned. There’s been a great many times where I’ve found myself thinking “Yes, Darwin is a pretty good OS core, but if I had the skills I’d build a less Unix-like Darwin distro.” And if Apple at some point thoroughly screwed the pooch, I’d go Linux, but Linux is a long damn way from the kind of standardization it needs to succeed on Aunt Mattie’s desktop.
People who are looking for open source alternatives to common commercial applications can check out http://www.osalt.com
As for the Mac v. PC trial, I’d say they aren’t mutually exclusive, as long as one has the funds. Sure, you can run Windows on a Mac, and treat it like a red headed step child as it thrashes your tiny laptop hard drive. I do use VMWare Fusion, but it’s nothing like having a dedicated system. CrossFire, which is based on Wine, and run a few of the support apps I use to manage Windows Servers.
I do use a Mac at work, because Entourage is way better than Outlook with regard to searching. I do have a sense that using the Mac is better because it, “Just Works!,” but I’ve had Macs go horrible wrong before, in the same way as Windows, both with hardware and software.
With regard to Aunt Mattie’s desktop, I would say that depending on Aunt Mattie’s needs, many Linux distros are there, ready for what she needs, depending on her needs, of course. I set up a lab of Ubuntu desktops to be used as public internet terminals at work, so people could check MySpace, etc. Granted, there are only 7 workstations, and ClamAV is filtering for content, but still, I have not had to rebuild one workstation in over a year. I provided no training on how to use the OS, and people have been playing the included games, in addition to using Firefox. I have seen Spyware exe’s downloaded to the desktops, and can only imagine if these workstation were based on Windows, how often they would have to be rebuilt. Granted, Windows can be configured manually to be run in a “Kiosk Mode,” but the configuration took more time to get right, to allow for Windows Updates, and AV updates, than it took to install Ubuntu.
Oh, and I have been known to use an eeePC by Asus. I recommended one to a friend who would routinely infect his machine with some sort of trojan monthly. Since his eeePC purchase, I haven’t heard from him. It “Just Works!”
Brian: I was just baiting trolls with that remark. But since we are on the topic, Linux, BSD, etc. are not subsets of Unix.
I’m not sure I agree about Aunt Mattie’s desktop. I think of visiting my recently retired colleague who had just gotten a Windows Vista machine (for some reason) after six or seven years of using a Mac. One could ask why he did that, but it is not important. The important thing is that he was totally lost with Vista. It was a nightmare. I don’t see how a nice Gnome desktop properly installed on a machine at the factory is in any way whatsoever harder to use for a retired luddite than Vista. That is simply not the case at all.
I’ve not really spoken directly about the Mac phenomenon for some time, but I may eventually.
Bjorn, that has been my experience as well. It does depend on the user, of course.
Ah, the gradual slipping of the King. More than one conversation about buying a new computer has lead to, “Do I have to get Vista?” Microsoft has done such a poor job coordinating with manufacturers of late, that the release of Vista was so botched, it’s now a dirty word, even years after its release.
What this is contributing to, is people being more flexible in their choices. Granted, not a lot of people are going to say, “Hey what about Linux!,” but at least they are looking, since Vista is such a big jump.
This could be similar to a Protestant Reformation of sorts. I’d like to imagine Windows as the Roman Catholic Church, Apple as Protestantism, and the various distros of Linux as wiccan offshoots with some ancestor worship thrown in.
Bjorn, I would prefer to think of Windows as the Roman Catholic Church, the Mac as the wicca and other similar groups around Europe, all at a time a century or two earlier than you are talking about.
Linux is the Mongol army in 1239. You’ve heard of it. But over the next two years it is going to own you.
Thanks for the best laugh of the morning, Greg. 🙂
I’ve never had a Mac machine myself, but have helped some Mac users with issues because I was the nearest computer geek at the time. (Quick, get me the NCG!)
One of the things that blocks Mac from being an option for me is that I build my machines from hardware that I select myself, purchased from dealers and manufacturers that give me the best deal (not always monetarily). Given that Mac is so proprietary, I’ll never know what it’s like unless they open up to the “clone” market again.
Ok, Windows is the RCC, Macs are the Jews, get it, they started first. Xerox Alto is the Babylonians, which the Jews got their ideas from. Linux is so platform agnostic it should be some sort of anarchistic atheist grassroots movement of slack jawed hippies (desktops) who mooch off of their capitalist parents (servers).
Given that Mac is so proprietary, I’ll never know what it’s like unless they open up to the “clone” market again.
*cough*
Bjorn: No, wait, wait, I’ve got it. Thought this up while taking a shower …
Macs are the … oh, no, wait, that won’t work…
Never mind.
Bjorn, I would prefer to think of Windows as the Roman Catholic Church, the Mac as the wicca and other similar groups around Europe, all at a time a century or two earlier than you are talking about.
Didn’t wicca begin in the 19th century?
Protowicca then.
How about
Macintosh System File 1.x-2.x: Pre-Axial Age European folk religion, just as “religion” per religion was an alien concept in that era, Apple eschewed the term “Operating System”, seeing the system file as simply one aspect of a seamless, all-encompassing Macintoshness.
System 5.x – 6.x: Classical folk religion
System 7.x – 9.x: Medieval folk religion, waning dramatically toward the end.
OS X: Wicca, a new creation, styling itself the successor to the old folk religion but really more like its Axial rivals (BSD Unix)
Where does that leave the Newton?
The year is 1952. Windows is Stalinist Russia. Mac is the Mediterranean playgrounds of the rich and famous. Linux is the concept of a united Europe.
Windows is the U.S. Post Office. Mac is FedEx. Linux is the internets.
Windows is Ford. Mac is Toyota. Linux is Cessna.
Windows is Bush. Mac is Obama. Linux is Feingold.
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