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	Comments on: What kills our children?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: RickA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994429</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2023 12:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994429</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994407&quot;&gt;Christopher Winter&lt;/a&gt;.

That is an excellent question and fine legal reasoning.  I think the answer would be that without the 14th amendment - your theory would probably be correct.

However, the 14th amendment, and more particularly the equal protection clause would be the answer to your question.  The constitution was changed by the 14th amendment to give women (any person) equal rights - so they can buy guns and be drafted also.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994407">Christopher Winter</a>.</p>
<p>That is an excellent question and fine legal reasoning.  I think the answer would be that without the 14th amendment &#8211; your theory would probably be correct.</p>
<p>However, the 14th amendment, and more particularly the equal protection clause would be the answer to your question.  The constitution was changed by the 14th amendment to give women (any person) equal rights &#8211; so they can buy guns and be drafted also.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lionel A		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994426</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lionel A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2023 10:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994426</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994399&quot;&gt;RickA&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying guns:&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Maybe unconstitutional but nonetheless sensible.  In this respect, given the rising toll of gun deaths the constitution is not fit for purpose.

&lt;blockquote&gt;history shows that 18 year olds were qualified for the militia (and the draft).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In the military firearms are strictly controlled and held in guarded armouries.  Well that has been my experience from serving in the RN where I found myself at age 16 firing SMLE .303 and an assortment of machine guns Bren, Sten, Sterling and Lanchester.  A totally different scenario which makes your point, ahem, pointless.

Points about alcohol, driving and smoking are, ahem, smokescreens of little relevance in this discussion.  Typical lawyerly distractions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994399">RickA</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>It is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying guns:</p></blockquote>
<p>Maybe unconstitutional but nonetheless sensible.  In this respect, given the rising toll of gun deaths the constitution is not fit for purpose.</p>
<blockquote><p>history shows that 18 year olds were qualified for the militia (and the draft).</p></blockquote>
<p>In the military firearms are strictly controlled and held in guarded armouries.  Well that has been my experience from serving in the RN where I found myself at age 16 firing SMLE .303 and an assortment of machine guns Bren, Sten, Sterling and Lanchester.  A totally different scenario which makes your point, ahem, pointless.</p>
<p>Points about alcohol, driving and smoking are, ahem, smokescreens of little relevance in this discussion.  Typical lawyerly distractions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994412</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 20:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994412</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994399&quot;&gt;RickA&lt;/a&gt;.

Yet another reason to abrogate the 2nd amendment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994399">RickA</a>.</p>
<p>Yet another reason to abrogate the 2nd amendment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994410</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 20:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994410</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994341&quot;&gt;dean&lt;/a&gt;.

It depends on what categories one uses. The traditional &quot;youth&quot; category goes into the early 20s, and suicide by gun exceeded other categories. If you break at 18 (s the oldest in the group is 17) then gun deaths in the US are 55% suicide for 18+ and 32% suicide 17 and below, for exampl,e in 2021, a recent year with actual data.  Roger, you can be all pissy about the number if you like, I don&#039;t mind, but I&#039;m trying to have a sincere conversation here and not play gotcha.

Meanwhile, as of the last couple of years, 19% of kids 1 through 18 (so a slightly different age range) die of gun violence, and that is the largest category (motor vehicle crashes a very close second) .  In the most recent stats, 30% of those are suicides.  Among people of color, in this age range, homicide outpaces suicide while in white kids, suicide is more common. But, note that the black kid homicide death numbers, which are high, shot up in the last 2.5 year by about 50%.  This shift is larger than any other change in death rates related to guns and youth. Most experts (including some I met with last week) regard this as a major change owing to Covid and related effects, which means, most likely, that it is a short term trend.

Another major trend is the overall increase in very oung kids (9 and younger) getting killed, and middle school age kids dying by gun.  Last yar the younger age range went up so much in suicide that almost half of gun homicides 17 and under were suicides.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994341">dean</a>.</p>
<p>It depends on what categories one uses. The traditional &#8220;youth&#8221; category goes into the early 20s, and suicide by gun exceeded other categories. If you break at 18 (s the oldest in the group is 17) then gun deaths in the US are 55% suicide for 18+ and 32% suicide 17 and below, for exampl,e in 2021, a recent year with actual data.  Roger, you can be all pissy about the number if you like, I don&#8217;t mind, but I&#8217;m trying to have a sincere conversation here and not play gotcha.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, as of the last couple of years, 19% of kids 1 through 18 (so a slightly different age range) die of gun violence, and that is the largest category (motor vehicle crashes a very close second) .  In the most recent stats, 30% of those are suicides.  Among people of color, in this age range, homicide outpaces suicide while in white kids, suicide is more common. But, note that the black kid homicide death numbers, which are high, shot up in the last 2.5 year by about 50%.  This shift is larger than any other change in death rates related to guns and youth. Most experts (including some I met with last week) regard this as a major change owing to Covid and related effects, which means, most likely, that it is a short term trend.</p>
<p>Another major trend is the overall increase in very oung kids (9 and younger) getting killed, and middle school age kids dying by gun.  Last yar the younger age range went up so much in suicide that almost half of gun homicides 17 and under were suicides.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994408</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 20:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994408</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The spread of concealed carry laws, as well as stand your ground expansions, is a major concern. The clowns who think concealed carry makes things safer are dangerous fools, and we know relaxing stand your ground laws simply gives license to kill without cause. It’s going to get much worse.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The spread of concealed carry laws, as well as stand your ground expansions, is a major concern. The clowns who think concealed carry makes things safer are dangerous fools, and we know relaxing stand your ground laws simply gives license to kill without cause. It’s going to get much worse.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994407</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 19:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994407</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Now that I&#039;ve read the whole thing, I think Judge Payne makes a well-reasoned argument for the right of 18-20-year-olds to purchase handguns &#8212; that despite the age of majority in the time of the Founders being 21, the fact that 18-year-olds could (indeed, were required to) serve in the militias and expected to provide their own firearms logically implies they had a right to purchase.

However, this view that standards extant when the Constitution was ratified take precedence over current norms opens a can of worms. Women were not allowed to serve in the militias at that time. Based on that precedent, should they now be prohibited from owning firearms?

I raise this point not to advocate preventing women from arming themselves (Stand down, Emily Miller!) but to suggest that historical precedent is an unsuitable guide.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that I&#8217;ve read the whole thing, I think Judge Payne makes a well-reasoned argument for the right of 18-20-year-olds to purchase handguns &mdash; that despite the age of majority in the time of the Founders being 21, the fact that 18-year-olds could (indeed, were required to) serve in the militias and expected to provide their own firearms logically implies they had a right to purchase.</p>
<p>However, this view that standards extant when the Constitution was ratified take precedence over current norms opens a can of worms. Women were not allowed to serve in the militias at that time. Based on that precedent, should they now be prohibited from owning firearms?</p>
<p>I raise this point not to advocate preventing women from arming themselves (Stand down, Emily Miller!) but to suggest that historical precedent is an unsuitable guide.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RickA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994399</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 13:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994399</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying guns:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.524643/gov.uscourts.vaed.524643.47.0_1.pdf

This district decision is correct and will no doubt be appealed to the Supreme Court - which will uphold it and overturn all laws preventing adults from buying guns - based solely on age.

From a constitutional perspective, this decision makes perfect sense - as the 2nd amendment has no age restriction and history shows that 18 year olds were qualified for the militia (and the draft).

So in a year or so, the law of the land will be that 18, 19 and 20 year olds will also be able to buy handguns, rifles and shotguns in every state - and conceal carry also.

Makes one wonder about alcohol age restrictions, smoking age restrictions and car rental age restrictions - doesn&#039;t it?  If you are mature enough to go to war, and buy a gun - why not drink, smoke and rent a car?  I always wondered about those laws.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying guns:</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.524643/gov.uscourts.vaed.524643.47.0_1.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.524643/gov.uscourts.vaed.524643.47.0_1.pdf</a></p>
<p>This district decision is correct and will no doubt be appealed to the Supreme Court &#8211; which will uphold it and overturn all laws preventing adults from buying guns &#8211; based solely on age.</p>
<p>From a constitutional perspective, this decision makes perfect sense &#8211; as the 2nd amendment has no age restriction and history shows that 18 year olds were qualified for the militia (and the draft).</p>
<p>So in a year or so, the law of the land will be that 18, 19 and 20 year olds will also be able to buy handguns, rifles and shotguns in every state &#8211; and conceal carry also.</p>
<p>Makes one wonder about alcohol age restrictions, smoking age restrictions and car rental age restrictions &#8211; doesn&#8217;t it?  If you are mature enough to go to war, and buy a gun &#8211; why not drink, smoke and rent a car?  I always wondered about those laws.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994386</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 01:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994386</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Blacks died by the gun at a higher rate per 100,000 in 2020, but the total number of whites killed by guns was far greater: 29,663 vs. 14,311.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blacks died by the gun at a higher rate per 100,000 in 2020, but the total number of whites killed by guns was far greater: 29,663 vs. 14,311.</p>
<p><a href="https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994383</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2023 00:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994383</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The most recent year for which statistics are known is 2021. Citing data from the CDC, Pew Research says this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most recent year for which statistics are known is 2021. Citing data from the CDC, Pew Research says this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Roger Lambert		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994352</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Lambert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2023 19:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://gregladen.com/blog/?p=35099#comment-994352</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994351&quot;&gt;Greg Laden&lt;/a&gt;.

Really?  

Children who die by gun suicide are only 40% of the kids who die by gun violence. 

The majority are killed by other kids and young men who by and large are killing each other over drugs and gang territory and because of a gun culture seen in disadvantaged communities. At least, the FBI has said as much. Although, thanks to Republicans, we can&#039;t know for sure, because we don&#039;t have the data we should have about gun violence in the US.

Are Republicans responsible for many parts of this? Of course.  But that is not the ONLY story going on, which is what I was trying to point out. And to dismiss this as “oh some black guys are also at fault” is below you. And is pretty damned unhelpful in an era where this problem is growing while at the same time (thanks to the Republicans on the Supreme Court) our options to improve the situation become fewer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2023/05/13/what-kills-our-children/#comment-994351">Greg Laden</a>.</p>
<p>Really?  </p>
<p>Children who die by gun suicide are only 40% of the kids who die by gun violence. </p>
<p>The majority are killed by other kids and young men who by and large are killing each other over drugs and gang territory and because of a gun culture seen in disadvantaged communities. At least, the FBI has said as much. Although, thanks to Republicans, we can&#8217;t know for sure, because we don&#8217;t have the data we should have about gun violence in the US.</p>
<p>Are Republicans responsible for many parts of this? Of course.  But that is not the ONLY story going on, which is what I was trying to point out. And to dismiss this as “oh some black guys are also at fault” is below you. And is pretty damned unhelpful in an era where this problem is growing while at the same time (thanks to the Republicans on the Supreme Court) our options to improve the situation become fewer.</p>
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