RickA is behind the times. Natural immunity seems to be fairly ineffective against omicron.

Indeed. Rolling through to mid 2022 we see this:

After all, these variations on Omicron are not more severe, but they do have the capacity to reinfect people, even those who have had a previous version of Omicron. This is further evidence that reaching “herd immunity” (where enough people are vaccinated or infected to stop further circulation) against Covid-19 is probably impossible.

Note that pie-in-the-sky nature of ‘herd immunity’.

But still I see that the measures used to avoid infection are not being taken by many despite:

Forgive me if you’d heard this one before, but masks and ventilation are still important measures we can take.

downsides of using masks acknowledged and note this:

Analysis from the Financial Times indicates that for most people in England, Covid-19 has become less lethal than seasonal flu because of the high levels of immunity after vaccination and the reduced severity of Omicron compared with Delta. In 2022, most people want to interact and live life as they see best (in a democracy where freedom is valued), given that disease severity has been blunted with vaccines.

Don’t be complacent, another Covid wave is coming. Here’s how we can manage it

Anti-vaxers take note, you are not exercising your freedom but being bolshie and selfish for it is ‘not all about you cupcake’.

https://www.twincities.com/2021/12/13/hospitals-take-out-full-page-ads-in-newspapers-asking-minnesotans-to-get-vaccinated-take-covid-precautions-seriously/?utm_email=A544C515D49994C214F74535F4&g2i_eui=nbnY6VkPtvRWYiYpKd6Sdul5oi1FyBuO&g2i_source=newsletter&lctg=A544C515D49994C214F74535F4&active=yesD&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.twincities.com%2f2021%2f12%2f13%2fhospitals-take-out-full-page-ads-in-newspapers-asking-minnesotans-to-get-vaccinated-take-covid-precautions-seriously%2f&utm_campaign=stpaul-morning-report&utm_content=manual

Vax and mask so we can get back to normal hospitalizations, please.

Regardless of that, what RickA implies is that becoming infected with covid is actually not a bad thing after all, if that confers immunity of some sort afterwards. Let’s take this further. Are you implying, RickA, that if natural infection is not so bad, then exercising your ‘individual rights’ and freely spreading the virus to others is also not so bad either? After all, since you constantly harp on about the supposed benefits of natural immunity, then in your bizarre world-view perhaps naturally infecting others is good as well? Do you think that infected people are doing them a favor?

Again, ‘natural immunity’ presupposes that one survives infection and does not suffer from long covid. Millions of people have paid the ultimate price of covid infection and never made it to the safe herd immunity zone. Even more have survived the virus only to suffer lengthy and debilitating symptoms for months afterwards. Thus, getting infected with covid carries enormous risks.

When you say I am making arguments aiding anti-vaxers, I assume you are referring to my opinion that natural immunity is better than vaccination immunity. Is that correct? That fact …

It is not a fact that natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity. You’ve been shown that it’s not true. Framing that bit of bullshit as your “opinion” is simply an attempt at dodging by you. Spreading a lie as your opinion still means you’re lying.

Lionel:

When you say I am making arguments aiding anti-vaxers, I assume you are referring to my opinion that natural immunity is better than vaccination immunity. Is that correct?

That fact is not an argument I am using to convince people not to get vaccinated, as my advice is to get vaccinated. In fact, I have pointed out that hybrid immunity (getting sick, recovering and then being vaccinated or visa versa) seems to be the best protection.

Here is another study which shows that natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211207/Comparison-of-waning-COVID-19-immunity-between-vaccinated-and-infected-individuals.aspx

Getting mad at a fact is not productive.

Oh, the slithy tove uses illogical rhetoric to miss the point.

If somebody else chooses not to get the vaccination I feel no regret or remorse for that decision – because it wasn’t mine to make in the first place.

The point here is that you are displaying no regret or remorse for making arguments that aid anti-vaxers rather than doing the right thing which is to condemn them for their lack of logical responsibility to others.

Once again you demonstrate that you belong to that cohort, ‘who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought’, Peter Medawar.

Medawar should count his lucky stars he did not live to see the advent of Fox News, and what passes for scientific “discussion” these days. All of this was brought to mind by the recent discussions here at S&R between Brian Angliss and Burt Rutan, and once again being forced to confront what Medawar describes as people’s “active willingness to be deceived.”

Surrounded by people “educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought”

Richard Dawkins, in his collection of commentated essays, ‘A Devil’s Chaplan’, describes the thinking that Medawar de-constructs in the Chapter ‘Postmodernism Disrobed’, which is well worth a read, the other chapters also.

Except that my advice is to get vaccinated, and I have stated that several times on this very blog. That has been my choice and it seems like the smart decision (to me) given my personal cost benefit analysis.

I think you are getting my position against mandates confused with my position on vaccination. I am against mandates – but for vaccination. I would just persuade and not force.

The main reason for rejecting vaccines has nothing to do with vaccine safety. It is based on political ideology.

No doubt about that: you only need to listen to rand paul or any of the other republican leaders ranting about the overstep of requiring vaccines while lying about effectiveness of the shots (as rickA repeatedly does: lack of honesty and intentional falsehoods aren’t limited to the upper echelons of the modern right) to see that. They are simply upset that there is a competent president doing his best to get a handle on the current situation, as opposed the criminal they support who actively worked against public safety when he was “in office”.

Like we’ve said before: the modern right and people who support them (like rickA) are the biggest ongoing threats to democracy currently in existence.

That is the problem. Republicans and libertarians do not give a damn about ‘individual responsibility’. Quite the opposite: they think only about themselves. The implications of their ‘freedom’ on other people means nothing to them. They are the kinds of people who demand the right to not be vaccinated, the right to become infected with covid, and the right to be able to go wherever they like while they are infected, regardless of the effects on other people in the community. Their mantra is, ‘If you don’t want to get infected, stay out of my way’. I have seen numerous people writing this. They demand unlimited freedom regardless of how that affects others. If they infect their neighbors or people in a store with covid, well, tough, those they infect should have stayed home. It was their fault for being in the store at the same time they were there sneezing and coughing and spreading covid.

The main reason for rejecting vaccines has nothing to do with vaccine safety. It is based on political ideology. Simpletons on the right somehow think they are sticking it to the libs by rejecting vaccines. This reveals how utterly stupid many of them are.

I think

Assertion unsupported by evidence.