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	Comments on: The Current Trump-Clinton Electoral Prediction	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Obstreperous Applesauce		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465464</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Obstreperous Applesauce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465464</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow,
First of all, if you&#039;re going to talk to me, then talk to me. I&#039;ve said nothing about Bush and the split vote--to anybody, ever. I have tried to convey to you that there is a time and a place for everything. Standing in the middle of a battlefield with arrows whizzing past your head and going on and on about something that happened yesterday is not productive.

Look I take your point about how some Democrats have talked to millennials (or presumed millennials). To those Dems I would say that you don&#039;t have to blindly take all of your cues from the top. Frankly some of what I heard was condescending at best and otherwise Bernie bashing by proxy. It was offensive even to me, and I&#039;m way, WAY past being a millennial.

But here&#039;s the thing; I gave you reasons why I would consider not voting or lodging a protest vote. All I&#039;m hearing from you so far are rationalizations. 

Get it together.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow,<br />
First of all, if you&#8217;re going to talk to me, then talk to me. I&#8217;ve said nothing about Bush and the split vote&#8211;to anybody, ever. I have tried to convey to you that there is a time and a place for everything. Standing in the middle of a battlefield with arrows whizzing past your head and going on and on about something that happened yesterday is not productive.</p>
<p>Look I take your point about how some Democrats have talked to millennials (or presumed millennials). To those Dems I would say that you don&#8217;t have to blindly take all of your cues from the top. Frankly some of what I heard was condescending at best and otherwise Bernie bashing by proxy. It was offensive even to me, and I&#8217;m way, WAY past being a millennial.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s the thing; I gave you reasons why I would consider not voting or lodging a protest vote. All I&#8217;m hearing from you so far are rationalizations. </p>
<p>Get it together.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465463</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465463</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Trump support comes from people whose nonparticipation has been ignored.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My GOD!  Who KNEW that if you avoid voting that you would be IGNORED by the process you&#039;re ignoring???

You have a curiously narrow view of voting that it is only valid if you have something to vote FOR.  Do you support blocking the votes of people who wish to vote AGAINST something?

As for all these critics you cite, I&#039;m looking around and not seeing or hearing what you apparently are seeing/hearing...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Trump support comes from people whose nonparticipation has been ignored.</p></blockquote>
<p>My GOD!  Who KNEW that if you avoid voting that you would be IGNORED by the process you&#8217;re ignoring???</p>
<p>You have a curiously narrow view of voting that it is only valid if you have something to vote FOR.  Do you support blocking the votes of people who wish to vote AGAINST something?</p>
<p>As for all these critics you cite, I&#8217;m looking around and not seeing or hearing what you apparently are seeing/hearing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465462</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465462</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Uh, if they wish to not vote, that&#039;s their voting preference too. And doing so does not give Trump the presidency. They may vote &quot;Third party&quot;, and you have complained about that too previously. Now, it may be that some of the arguments for leaving the voting preference of people alone have swayed you, but this has not been said, unless it&#039;s in a thread that disappeared off visibility without me seeing it.

Voting third party DOES have utility: that vote is flagged up as up for grabs if the &quot;main party candidate&quot; wishes it by determining what policy attracted that vote.

But sometimes there will be nobody for whom you have a single thing to vote for, and not voting is also an available response. To date the response has been to ignore the flagging votes, and guess what: Trump support comes from people whose nonparticipation has been ignored. And Bernie votes too. Hilary and the GOP candidates all had the chance of trying to get the nonvoting vote, but they couldn&#039;t be arsed.

Maybe that will change now that the ability of invigorating the nonvoting block to actually have a reason to think voting this time will be worth it has been shown to produce election-busting consequences.

And as I said long ago, critics of Hilary do so because they think it will do something, critics don&#039;t bother with Trump because they know it won&#039;t make a difference. Stop complaining that only Hilary is criticised, because it&#039;s actually evidence that shows she&#039;s more acceptable to them than Trump is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, if they wish to not vote, that&#8217;s their voting preference too. And doing so does not give Trump the presidency. They may vote &#8220;Third party&#8221;, and you have complained about that too previously. Now, it may be that some of the arguments for leaving the voting preference of people alone have swayed you, but this has not been said, unless it&#8217;s in a thread that disappeared off visibility without me seeing it.</p>
<p>Voting third party DOES have utility: that vote is flagged up as up for grabs if the &#8220;main party candidate&#8221; wishes it by determining what policy attracted that vote.</p>
<p>But sometimes there will be nobody for whom you have a single thing to vote for, and not voting is also an available response. To date the response has been to ignore the flagging votes, and guess what: Trump support comes from people whose nonparticipation has been ignored. And Bernie votes too. Hilary and the GOP candidates all had the chance of trying to get the nonvoting vote, but they couldn&#8217;t be arsed.</p>
<p>Maybe that will change now that the ability of invigorating the nonvoting block to actually have a reason to think voting this time will be worth it has been shown to produce election-busting consequences.</p>
<p>And as I said long ago, critics of Hilary do so because they think it will do something, critics don&#8217;t bother with Trump because they know it won&#8217;t make a difference. Stop complaining that only Hilary is criticised, because it&#8217;s actually evidence that shows she&#8217;s more acceptable to them than Trump is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465461</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465461</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I, for one, am quite happy to &quot;let them vote as they wish&quot;.

What we want is for them to VOTE, period.

The Right in America is an unpopular minority.   Just let them vote.  Perhaps we need a law or a carrot (tax break?) that compels everyone to vote every election.

Democracies don&#039;t work when the populace gens up excuses and avoids participating in the elections.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, for one, am quite happy to &#8220;let them vote as they wish&#8221;.</p>
<p>What we want is for them to VOTE, period.</p>
<p>The Right in America is an unpopular minority.   Just let them vote.  Perhaps we need a law or a carrot (tax break?) that compels everyone to vote every election.</p>
<p>Democracies don&#8217;t work when the populace gens up excuses and avoids participating in the elections.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465460</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 15:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465460</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Look, there will be some people who may vote for Hilary  as the best of a bad bunch, but if you keep bleating about how they MUST MUST MUST!!!! vote Hilary, you&#039;ll annoy them by dictating to them what they must do, and they&#039;ll say &quot;fudge you mother hubbard!&quot; and either not vote or, just to return the &quot;favour&quot; vote Trump and let you know and annoy the arse off you.

LET THEM VOTE as they wish.

Doesnt mean &quot;Don&#039;t make your case&quot;, just cut the &quot;But you MUST...&quot; or &quot;No, you CAN&#039;T...&quot;. You say what you will do, give your reasons and let your argument stand on its own without coercive language.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, there will be some people who may vote for Hilary  as the best of a bad bunch, but if you keep bleating about how they MUST MUST MUST!!!! vote Hilary, you&#8217;ll annoy them by dictating to them what they must do, and they&#8217;ll say &#8220;fudge you mother hubbard!&#8221; and either not vote or, just to return the &#8220;favour&#8221; vote Trump and let you know and annoy the arse off you.</p>
<p>LET THEM VOTE as they wish.</p>
<p>Doesnt mean &#8220;Don&#8217;t make your case&#8221;, just cut the &#8220;But you MUST&#8230;&#8221; or &#8220;No, you CAN&#8217;T&#8230;&#8221;. You say what you will do, give your reasons and let your argument stand on its own without coercive language.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465459</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 15:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465459</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Wow. Fighting yesterday’s battles is a waste of time. Keep moving on.&quot;

Those who wilfully ignore the past not merely consign themselves to repeating the mistakes of the past, they consign the very idea of mistakes to the graveyard, making the mistakes in the future WORSE.

Look if you want to consign the past to the past, then stop whining about how the split vote got shrub in power.

What&#039;s that? You can&#039;t? Because those are other people and they aren&#039;t under your control? Weeeel, maybe you need to give them your advice, hmm?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Wow. Fighting yesterday’s battles is a waste of time. Keep moving on.&#8221;</p>
<p>Those who wilfully ignore the past not merely consign themselves to repeating the mistakes of the past, they consign the very idea of mistakes to the graveyard, making the mistakes in the future WORSE.</p>
<p>Look if you want to consign the past to the past, then stop whining about how the split vote got shrub in power.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s that? You can&#8217;t? Because those are other people and they aren&#8217;t under your control? Weeeel, maybe you need to give them your advice, hmm?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465458</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2016 15:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465458</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s hope, though.

Face it, if &quot;You can&#039;t vote otherwise&quot; is the case, then why SHOULD Hilary change?

Hell, look at how when complaining about what you want to change Hilary on you&#039;re dogpiled to silence by people screaming &quot;BUT TRUUUUUUUMMMMMPPP!!!!!&quot;. Fer chrissakes, that&#039;s what happened with Obama and his &quot;All the change we think we can get some republicans to agree to&quot;.

The USA doesn&#039;t HAVE a left. All that the democrats need to do is flirt with the rightwing voters, because the entire left has nobody to vote for.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s hope, though.</p>
<p>Face it, if &#8220;You can&#8217;t vote otherwise&#8221; is the case, then why SHOULD Hilary change?</p>
<p>Hell, look at how when complaining about what you want to change Hilary on you&#8217;re dogpiled to silence by people screaming &#8220;BUT TRUUUUUUUMMMMMPPP!!!!!&#8221;. Fer chrissakes, that&#8217;s what happened with Obama and his &#8220;All the change we think we can get some republicans to agree to&#8221;.</p>
<p>The USA doesn&#8217;t HAVE a left. All that the democrats need to do is flirt with the rightwing voters, because the entire left has nobody to vote for.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Obstreperous Applesauce		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465457</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Obstreperous Applesauce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465457</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Think of it this way, it&#039;s about the issues not the candidate. You have a better chance of *positively* affecting the issues you care about with Clinton. So don&#039;t vote for her, vote for the issues you care about. 

Play the hand you&#039;re dealt, though suck it may. Pulling an Achilles and retiring to your tent is not a positive or constructive move. You are needed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think of it this way, it&#8217;s about the issues not the candidate. You have a better chance of *positively* affecting the issues you care about with Clinton. So don&#8217;t vote for her, vote for the issues you care about. </p>
<p>Play the hand you&#8217;re dealt, though suck it may. Pulling an Achilles and retiring to your tent is not a positive or constructive move. You are needed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465456</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2016 17:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465456</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So is Curious George.

Time to leave childish topics behind and move on to grown-up topics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is Curious George.</p>
<p>Time to leave childish topics behind and move on to grown-up topics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Obstreperous Applesauce		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/10/16/the-current-trump-clinton-electoral-prediction/#comment-465455</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Obstreperous Applesauce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2016 16:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=23104#comment-465455</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow. Fighting yesterday&#039;s battles is a waste of time. Keep moving on. 

Maybe you&#039;ll find some resonance with this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;With No Illusions, Says Climate Leader, Clinton Must Be Elected—Then Fiercely Confronted

The day after the election, the climate movement will &#039;need to press harder than ever for real progress on the biggest crisis the world has ever faced.&#039;
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/10/18/no-illusions-says-climate-leader-clinton-must-be-elected-then-fiercely-confronted&lt;/blockquote&gt;

P.S. Humans are not monkeys. They&#039;re great apes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Fighting yesterday&#8217;s battles is a waste of time. Keep moving on. </p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;ll find some resonance with this:</p>
<blockquote><p>With No Illusions, Says Climate Leader, Clinton Must Be Elected—Then Fiercely Confronted</p>
<p>The day after the election, the climate movement will &#8216;need to press harder than ever for real progress on the biggest crisis the world has ever faced.&#8217;<br />
<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/10/18/no-illusions-says-climate-leader-clinton-must-be-elected-then-fiercely-confronted" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/10/18/no-illusions-says-climate-leader-clinton-must-be-elected-then-fiercely-confronted</a></p></blockquote>
<p>P.S. Humans are not monkeys. They&#8217;re great apes.</p>
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