As to the cops being ‘Heroes”? Heroes don’t shoot until they have to, right? Heroes don’t kill innocents, yeah? Heroes don’t wear armor and claim to be in fear of their lives, do they? Heroes don’t claim special legal rights, in the stories I have been told. Heroes don’t withhold video evidence of their acts or wait for a few days before making official statements for the investigators. If you want to have multiple summer parades for these “Heroes”, shouldn’t they perform like heroes? RANTOFF

I agree and see your point.

I will say that being a cop is a very tough job and I can see why they are scared 1/2 the time.

But I do think that they need to hold off on pulling the trigger a bit longer in these ambiguous situations.

Remember the social worker laying on the ground with his hands up, who got shot in the leg. There was no excuse for that. Somebody just pulled the trigger by mistake or reflexively when startled. I am afraid more training on when not to shoot is in order for our nations police.

You and I both know that the riots and the unrest today has come about because there have been too many costumed officials who have made the excuse that cops gotta “make it home” every night. Therefore, officer safety has frequently trumped the concept of de-escalation and made concepts like “furtive movement” a household topic. We now live in an era of “Comply or Die”, and that is a lower standard for the officer, while expecting much of the citizenry.

This behavior pattern is anything but “heroic” and often cops are treated as “superheroes”/unquestionable instead of being held to a very high standard.

See Tamir Rice…see Crawford WalMart case…See Ray Tensing / DuBose…and that’s just in Ohio!

Good question.

I think the same standard as others.

The cop in Tulsa was charged with a crime.

I suspect if a regular citizen had made the same shot, they too would be charged with a crime – and that seems fair.

It is pretty clear that you are not allowed to shoot someone for not following instructions, unless there is a danger to someone.

Even if the window was open (in dispute) – reaching into a car is not enough (in my opinion) to put someone into reasonable fear of gross bodily harm (whether a cop or a regular citizen).

So the same criminal laws apply to the police as they do to the regular citizen.

An argument could be made that the standards should be a little higher for police and SWAT – but they should be at least the same level.

Yes – dean pointed out his high level of training at #18.

My main point on this thread, was that more and more people are obtaining permits to carry.

Given that, it would behoove those people to obtain additional training in firing in a crowd (in case that came up).

Some people on this thread have a different opinion than me on this issue – and that is their right.

I don’t expect everybody to agree with me.

But I do think it is possible for a regular civilian to learn more about how to use a firearm safely in a crowd (or a place with more people than a deer hunting situation).

I only had to fire 30 bullets to obtain my permit to carry – 15 at 10 meters and 15 at 15 meters. I was shooting at a target.

That is it.

Even a 2nd amendment guy like me, who believes in the right to keep and bear arms, would not feel comfortable just blasting away with a weapon with lots of people around.

However, if I happened to be standing around in a public space (like a street or parking lot) and saw a person knife 10 individuals, one after the other, with no end of victims in sight – I might feel obligated to try to stop that person from continuing to stab more individuals.

Maybe I would just run away – like others – but maybe I might pull out a gun and try to save other people from getting stabbed.

In that instance, it might be nice to have done more than fire 30 bullets at a firing range and have some advice on how to shoot so you don’t accidentally kill innocent bystanders.

Based on the tenor of this thread – I think many here would prefer that even if a person with a weapon and a permit to carry were right at the scene – and police were many minutes away – they would prefer that such an individual simply run away – so as not to use a weapon which they feel the person should not have in the first place.

I reserve the right to disagree.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/19/health/jason-falconer-minnesota-mall-stabbing-trnd/index.html

QUOTE
He owns a firing range and firearms training facility called Tactical Advantage. He’s considered an expert in firearms training and education and has helped teach classes on law enforcement skills at St. Cloud State University for nine years, his company website says.

Falconer was the former police chief of Albany, Minnesota. Now, he works as a part-time officer with the Avon Police Department. ENDQUOTE

So, he trains people who are cops and others who are not cops…but some believe that only those with the government paycheck are capable of proper firearm safety in public?

I’m going to have my monitor bronzed to commemorate it.

If the mall was a gun free zone, that would prevent regular civilians with a permit to carry from having a gun in the mall.

However, the Minnesota law doesn’t apply to police officers – just permit to carry folks.

So I think Greg is right.

Not sure of the details, but I think he was legal.