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	Comments on: Tell The AGU To Do The Right Thing About AGW #ExxonKnew	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464368</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2016 02:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464368</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll just leave this here...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/10/26/in-a-loss-for-exxonmobil-ny-supreme-court-orders-oil-giant-to-produce-climate-documents/?utm_term=.5c925b64e9e4]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just leave this here&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/10/26/in-a-loss-for-exxonmobil-ny-supreme-court-orders-oil-giant-to-produce-climate-documents/?utm_term=.5c925b64e9e4" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/10/26/in-a-loss-for-exxonmobil-ny-supreme-court-orders-oil-giant-to-produce-climate-documents/?utm_term=.5c925b64e9e4</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AGU Throws Science, Climate Under The Bus &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464367</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AGU Throws Science, Climate Under The Bus &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464367</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] We talked about this before, here. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] We talked about this before, here. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Walt Garage		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464366</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Walt Garage]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464366</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad the AGU has taken a stance on climate change.

About 5 years ago, I had several lengthy discussions on LinkedIn with geologists who were deniers.  Not sure what, if any, professional organizations they belonged to but it was somewhat frustrating to me dealing with alleged professionals who were so dismissive of other professionals who weren&#039;t geologists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad the AGU has taken a stance on climate change.</p>
<p>About 5 years ago, I had several lengthy discussions on LinkedIn with geologists who were deniers.  Not sure what, if any, professional organizations they belonged to but it was somewhat frustrating to me dealing with alleged professionals who were so dismissive of other professionals who weren&#8217;t geologists.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2016 17:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you read that &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; article carefully, you have to conclude that the case is still very much alive. (Well, &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; don&#039;t have to, but it&#039;s the reasonable assessment.)

For example, consider the paragraph you quoted, paragraph 6:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
For example, he said, the investigation is scrutinizing a 2014 report by Exxon Mobil stating that global efforts to address climate change would not mean that it had to leave enormous amounts of oil reserves in the ground as so-called “stranded assets.”
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Since the science says we must leave large amounts of oil in the ground if we are to have a chance of preserving something close to the climate in which our civilization developed, ExxonMobil&#039;s attempt to refute this &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; amount to defrauding its investors.

That&#039;s not to say a guilty verdict against ExxonMobil is a slam-dunk. But there is precedent for a judgment that forces it to change its planning, in the agreement signed by Peabody Coal.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read that <i>New York Times</i> article carefully, you have to conclude that the case is still very much alive. (Well, <i>you</i> don&#8217;t have to, but it&#8217;s the reasonable assessment.)</p>
<p>For example, consider the paragraph you quoted, paragraph 6:</p>
<blockquote><p>
For example, he said, the investigation is scrutinizing a 2014 report by Exxon Mobil stating that global efforts to address climate change would not mean that it had to leave enormous amounts of oil reserves in the ground as so-called “stranded assets.”
</p></blockquote>
<p>Since the science says we must leave large amounts of oil in the ground if we are to have a chance of preserving something close to the climate in which our civilization developed, ExxonMobil&#8217;s attempt to refute this <i>could</i> amount to defrauding its investors.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say a guilty verdict against ExxonMobil is a slam-dunk. But there is precedent for a judgment that forces it to change its planning, in the agreement signed by Peabody Coal.</p>
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		<title>
		By: See Noevo		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464364</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[See Noevo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464364</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If a bunch of lawyers get together, with much publicity, to bring a *murder* case,
but then later *change* the charges to *fraud*,
then you could say they dropped the case, the first case (i.e. for murder). 
At a minimum, you would say they’ve moved the goalposts.

Similarly, Schneiderman &#038; company seem to have moved *from* allegations of *past* positions regarding global warming (to the extent that they were demanding 40 years’ worth of company documentation) *to* allegations of *future* financial *fraud*.

“But in an extensive interview, Mr. Schneiderman said that his investigation was focused less on the distant past [Really? Why then were they demanding 40 years worth of Exxon documents?] than on relatively recent statements by Exxon Mobil related to climate change and what it means for the company’s future.

&quot;In other words, the question for Mr. Schneiderman is less what Exxon knew, and more what it predicts.
For example, he said, the investigation is scrutinizing a 2014 report by Exxon Mobil stating that global efforts to address climate change would not mean that it had to leave enormous amounts of oil reserves in the ground as so-called “stranded assets.””

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/science/exxon-mobil-fraud-inquiry-said-to-focus-more-on-future-than-past.html?_r=0]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a bunch of lawyers get together, with much publicity, to bring a *murder* case,<br />
but then later *change* the charges to *fraud*,<br />
then you could say they dropped the case, the first case (i.e. for murder).<br />
At a minimum, you would say they’ve moved the goalposts.</p>
<p>Similarly, Schneiderman &amp; company seem to have moved *from* allegations of *past* positions regarding global warming (to the extent that they were demanding 40 years’ worth of company documentation) *to* allegations of *future* financial *fraud*.</p>
<p>“But in an extensive interview, Mr. Schneiderman said that his investigation was focused less on the distant past [Really? Why then were they demanding 40 years worth of Exxon documents?] than on relatively recent statements by Exxon Mobil related to climate change and what it means for the company’s future.</p>
<p>&#8220;In other words, the question for Mr. Schneiderman is less what Exxon knew, and more what it predicts.<br />
For example, he said, the investigation is scrutinizing a 2014 report by Exxon Mobil stating that global efforts to address climate change would not mean that it had to leave enormous amounts of oil reserves in the ground as so-called “stranded assets.””</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/science/exxon-mobil-fraud-inquiry-said-to-focus-more-on-future-than-past.html?_r=0" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/science/exxon-mobil-fraud-inquiry-said-to-focus-more-on-future-than-past.html?_r=0</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Marco		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464363</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2016 13:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464363</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Julian, more relevant is that this WSJ piece not even supports SN&#039;s claim. 

Also funny: a week after that WSJ piece, Exxon was in court battling the subpoena from the Mass. AG. Now, why would they do that if the investigation has been suspended?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian, more relevant is that this WSJ piece not even supports SN&#8217;s claim. </p>
<p>Also funny: a week after that WSJ piece, Exxon was in court battling the subpoena from the Mass. AG. Now, why would they do that if the investigation has been suspended?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Julian Frost		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464362</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julian Frost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2016 08:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464362</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@See Noevo, The Wall Street Journal?! Seriously!?!?
Read &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2016/09/01/the-wall-street-journal-is-a-rag/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; before commenting again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@See Noevo, The Wall Street Journal?! Seriously!?!?<br />
Read <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2016/09/01/the-wall-street-journal-is-a-rag/" rel="nofollow">this</a> before commenting again.</p>
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		<title>
		By: See Noevo		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464361</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[See Noevo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2016 01:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464361</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-exxon-case-unraveled-1472598472]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-exxon-case-unraveled-1472598472" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-exxon-case-unraveled-1472598472</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2016 19:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sure you can provide a citation for the case against ExxonMobil being dropped. You might forward the same to Rep. Lamar Smith, who is set to hold a hearing on whether his subpoenas of the AGs are too constitutional after nine legal scholars said they&#039;re not, and to the Competitive Enterprise Institute which has sued the New York AG.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/12092016/exxonmobil-climate-change-research-denial-lamar-smith-subpoenas-house-science-committee-global-warming

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/31082016/conservative-think-tank-cei-sues-new-york-attorney-general-eric-schneiderman-exxon-climate]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you can provide a citation for the case against ExxonMobil being dropped. You might forward the same to Rep. Lamar Smith, who is set to hold a hearing on whether his subpoenas of the AGs are too constitutional after nine legal scholars said they&#8217;re not, and to the Competitive Enterprise Institute which has sued the New York AG.</p>
<p><a href="https://insideclimatenews.org/news/12092016/exxonmobil-climate-change-research-denial-lamar-smith-subpoenas-house-science-committee-global-warming" rel="nofollow ugc">https://insideclimatenews.org/news/12092016/exxonmobil-climate-change-research-denial-lamar-smith-subpoenas-house-science-committee-global-warming</a></p>
<p><a href="https://insideclimatenews.org/news/31082016/conservative-think-tank-cei-sues-new-york-attorney-general-eric-schneiderman-exxon-climate" rel="nofollow ugc">https://insideclimatenews.org/news/31082016/conservative-think-tank-cei-sues-new-york-attorney-general-eric-schneiderman-exxon-climate</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: See Noevo		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/tell-the-agu-to-do-the-right-thing-about-agw-exxonknew/#comment-464359</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[See Noevo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2016 19:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22906#comment-464359</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman and 16 other state Attorneys General brought a much publicized case against Exxon for its alleged climate change sins.
Why has the case been dropped?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman and 16 other state Attorneys General brought a much publicized case against Exxon for its alleged climate change sins.<br />
Why has the case been dropped?</p>
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