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	Comments on: Everybody Always Gets This Wrong, Even Smart People	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:21:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Susan Anderson		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464355</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2016 15:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464355</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My Capitalocene book is too annoying to seriously recommend, though there&#039;s some good stuff in it.  But it does cover in detail the plundering of empire, Spanish, Portuguese, British (and no doubt Dutch) associated with world travel, resulting in deforestation and piles of toxic rubble (and disease and slavery) everywhere they went. From this you might intuit my objection: it&#039;s all too extreme.

I mean: here we all are and what are we going to do about it?  Yes, we&#039;ve been bad, but not entirely so. And our existence is not a matter for debate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Capitalocene book is too annoying to seriously recommend, though there&#8217;s some good stuff in it.  But it does cover in detail the plundering of empire, Spanish, Portuguese, British (and no doubt Dutch) associated with world travel, resulting in deforestation and piles of toxic rubble (and disease and slavery) everywhere they went. From this you might intuit my objection: it&#8217;s all too extreme.</p>
<p>I mean: here we all are and what are we going to do about it?  Yes, we&#8217;ve been bad, but not entirely so. And our existence is not a matter for debate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BBD		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464354</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BBD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2016 07:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464354</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mark Draughn

&lt;blockquote&gt;So, for those of us who are curious about all things science, do you have any recommendations about how to start getting the prehistory picture right? Perhaps a good website to start at, or a textbook that isn’t deadly dry? A popular book, maybe?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I rather liked Steven MIthen&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674019997&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;After the Ice: A Global Human History, 20,000 - 5,000BC.&lt;/a&gt; It&#039;s been some years since I read it, but IIRC it was in reasonable accord with what Greg says above and in the OP. And it&#039;s readable, though a bit of a doorstop. But...

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mark, there has never been a great overview of prehistory for the general public that wasn’t problematic in some way or another.&lt;/blockquote&gt; [Greg]

... So I could well be unaware of all sorts of issues.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Draughn</p>
<blockquote><p>So, for those of us who are curious about all things science, do you have any recommendations about how to start getting the prehistory picture right? Perhaps a good website to start at, or a textbook that isn’t deadly dry? A popular book, maybe?</p></blockquote>
<p>I rather liked Steven MIthen&#8217;s <a href="http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674019997" rel="nofollow">After the Ice: A Global Human History, 20,000 &#8211; 5,000BC.</a> It&#8217;s been some years since I read it, but IIRC it was in reasonable accord with what Greg says above and in the OP. And it&#8217;s readable, though a bit of a doorstop. But&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Mark, there has never been a great overview of prehistory for the general public that wasn’t problematic in some way or another.</p></blockquote>
<p> [Greg]</p>
<p>&#8230; So I could well be unaware of all sorts of issues.</p>
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		<title>
		By: WesP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464353</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WesP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2016 04:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464353</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg

&#062;People will fight about the date for “proto-indo-european” languages or even is fuch a proto-thing existed or could be dates. The majority of historical linguists don’t accept this at all.

Can you clarify this point?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg</p>
<p>&gt;People will fight about the date for “proto-indo-european” languages or even is fuch a proto-thing existed or could be dates. The majority of historical linguists don’t accept this at all.</p>
<p>Can you clarify this point?</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevoR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464352</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevoR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2016 04:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464352</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Excellent analysis and corrections to a graphic graphic here. Thankyou Greg Laden, I&#039;ve learnt from this. 

FWIW. I&#039;m one of those who have enjoyed and shared this widely online originally - and thought at the time it was fascinating and completely factually accurate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis and corrections to a graphic graphic here. Thankyou Greg Laden, I&#8217;ve learnt from this. </p>
<p>FWIW. I&#8217;m one of those who have enjoyed and shared this widely online originally &#8211; and thought at the time it was fascinating and completely factually accurate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: CherryBombSim		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464351</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CherryBombSim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2016 23:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464351</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Can I whinge about the geology, too?

&quot;Ice sheets around Alaska shrink, exposing a land bridge between Asia and North America.&quot;

Beringia was never glaciated, people could just stroll across at the LGM.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I whinge about the geology, too?</p>
<p>&#8220;Ice sheets around Alaska shrink, exposing a land bridge between Asia and North America.&#8221;</p>
<p>Beringia was never glaciated, people could just stroll across at the LGM.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464350</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464350</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mark, there has never been a great overview of prehistory for the general public that wasn&#039;t problematic in some way or another.

Diamond&#039;s books that look at the distant past do a good job of getting mostly out of the mold, but they are heavily criticized for being off at least a little on every fact, off a lot by some. 

Modern day World Prehistory classes taught by good teachers are good.  The line I&#039;m giving you here in this post is the same that is currently normally given in modern day up to date classes. 

I use &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0500290636/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0500290636&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=grlasbl0a-20&amp;linkId=ad5d14aab8baa94c4a2569292d755830&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Human Past: World Prehistory and the Development of Human Societies (Third Edition)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;//ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=grlasbl0a-20&amp;l=am2&amp;o=1&amp;a=0500290636&quot; width=&quot;1&quot; height=&quot;1&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; style=&quot;border:none !important; margin:0px !important;&quot; /&gt; as a textbook in those cases.  I&#039;m not sure it is the best but I like it a lot.Each area is covered by a different set of experts, so they&#039;ll show some bias in how great their own area/time period is, but if you spread that across time and space the you are there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, there has never been a great overview of prehistory for the general public that wasn&#8217;t problematic in some way or another.</p>
<p>Diamond&#8217;s books that look at the distant past do a good job of getting mostly out of the mold, but they are heavily criticized for being off at least a little on every fact, off a lot by some. </p>
<p>Modern day World Prehistory classes taught by good teachers are good.  The line I&#8217;m giving you here in this post is the same that is currently normally given in modern day up to date classes. </p>
<p>I use <a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0500290636/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=0500290636&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;tag=grlasbl0a-20&#038;linkId=ad5d14aab8baa94c4a2569292d755830" rel="nofollow">The Human Past: World Prehistory and the Development of Human Societies (Third Edition)</a><img src="//ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=grlasbl0a-20&#038;l=am2&#038;o=1&#038;a=0500290636" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /> as a textbook in those cases.  I&#8217;m not sure it is the best but I like it a lot.Each area is covered by a different set of experts, so they&#8217;ll show some bias in how great their own area/time period is, but if you spread that across time and space the you are there.</p>
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		By: Two charts show carbon pollution will end era of stable climate. Only one is funny. &#124; Fedora Nate Studios		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464349</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Two charts show carbon pollution will end era of stable climate. Only one is funny. &#124; Fedora Nate Studios]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464349</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] ways of communicating the risks posed of rapid warming, which brings us back to the great (but not perfect) xkcd cartoon. Here it is in [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] ways of communicating the risks posed of rapid warming, which brings us back to the great (but not perfect) xkcd cartoon. Here it is in [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Draughn		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464348</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Draughn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464348</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, for those of us who are curious about all things science, do you have any recommendations about how to start getting the prehistory picture right? Perhaps a good website to start at, or a textbook that isn&#039;t deadly dry? A popular book, maybe?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, for those of us who are curious about all things science, do you have any recommendations about how to start getting the prehistory picture right? Perhaps a good website to start at, or a textbook that isn&#8217;t deadly dry? A popular book, maybe?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464347</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464347</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MikeL Exactly. I am an educator in the area of prehistory.  I came across this cartoon. I do a certain amount of my edumication duties on this blog.  And, so ... !!!

I agree that the narrative of time needs to e uncomplicated and strong, and contain things people relate to.  This can be done, easily, while a) getting the details right and b) not reifying the heternomrativewesternopatriarchy.  

I would object that these are not nitpics. This is important stuff. Among the suggested issues one could rank them on a nitpic to serious points off if it was on an exam scale, and the most nitpicky thing would be how many floods happened in the scablands and when they happened, which probably doesn&#039;t matter at all because the point is made, just a bit off.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeL Exactly. I am an educator in the area of prehistory.  I came across this cartoon. I do a certain amount of my edumication duties on this blog.  And, so &#8230; !!!</p>
<p>I agree that the narrative of time needs to e uncomplicated and strong, and contain things people relate to.  This can be done, easily, while a) getting the details right and b) not reifying the heternomrativewesternopatriarchy.  </p>
<p>I would object that these are not nitpics. This is important stuff. Among the suggested issues one could rank them on a nitpic to serious points off if it was on an exam scale, and the most nitpicky thing would be how many floods happened in the scablands and when they happened, which probably doesn&#8217;t matter at all because the point is made, just a bit off.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MikeL		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/09/13/everybody-always-gets-this-wrong-even-smart-people/#comment-464346</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2016 13:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22903#comment-464346</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hear what you&#039;re saying (I notice all the nitpicks now that you point them out), but it strikes me that the cartoon does actual prehistory educators a service by collecting all the misconceptions in one place, so a lecturer can spend a lesson discussing the western-centric reductive narrative presented in the comic.  

I could see Munroe doing a followup where he depicts the vagaries of the non-linear progression of prehistory (he&#039;s been more than willing to dive into such things previously), but for this I&#039;d argue that the point he makes about climate change neccessitated a strong, uncomplicated narrative of prehistory - and I&#039;m actually surprised he didn&#039;t simplify it down further.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear what you&#8217;re saying (I notice all the nitpicks now that you point them out), but it strikes me that the cartoon does actual prehistory educators a service by collecting all the misconceptions in one place, so a lecturer can spend a lesson discussing the western-centric reductive narrative presented in the comic.  </p>
<p>I could see Munroe doing a followup where he depicts the vagaries of the non-linear progression of prehistory (he&#8217;s been more than willing to dive into such things previously), but for this I&#8217;d argue that the point he makes about climate change neccessitated a strong, uncomplicated narrative of prehistory &#8211; and I&#8217;m actually surprised he didn&#8217;t simplify it down further.</p>
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