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	Comments on: New climate study is frenemy of climate science driven policy	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:09:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469102</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2016 20:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469102</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[RickA, not everyone spins falsehoods to intentionally mislead others so that they can feel less insecure about their own concerns.

Don&#039;t kid yourself.  You do this, so it&#039;s just natural for you.  Hence, you project this onto everyone else.  That is human nature.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RickA, not everyone spins falsehoods to intentionally mislead others so that they can feel less insecure about their own concerns.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t kid yourself.  You do this, so it&#8217;s just natural for you.  Hence, you project this onto everyone else.  That is human nature.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RickA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469101</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2016 19:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469101</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BBD #12:

Don&#039;t kid yourself.  Everybody spins.  That is human nature.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBD #12:</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t kid yourself.  Everybody spins.  That is human nature.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BBD		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469100</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BBD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469100</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ljungqvist and Zorita are contrarians. Hence the spin.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ljungqvist and Zorita are contrarians. Hence the spin.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469099</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2016 13:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469099</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469098&quot;&gt;Martin&lt;/a&gt;.

That is a good question, but it might be harder to answer than apparent.  Looking at long term trends, the records are not as good as one might like for the entire hemisphere.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469098">Martin</a>.</p>
<p>That is a good question, but it might be harder to answer than apparent.  Looking at long term trends, the records are not as good as one might like for the entire hemisphere.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Martin		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469098</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2016 09:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469098</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For the twentieth century there must be direct precipitation measurements available. How doe they compare??]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the twentieth century there must be direct precipitation measurements available. How doe they compare??</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469097</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2016 21:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469097</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;There is a new study out in Nature that is liable to be misinterpreted, or that may be flawed in a way that lends itself to misuse, in the context of climate science driven policy.&quot;

It&#039;s already happened, Greg.  Yahoo runs this headline:

Climate forecasts may be flawed, says study

&quot;Predictions of unprecedented rainfall extremes in the 20th century driven by global warming turned out wrong, a study said Wednesday, casting doubt on methods used to project future trends.&quot;

https://in.news.yahoo.com/climate-forecasts-may-flawed-says-170007812.html

Turned out to be wrong.  Wow.  Who writes this stuff?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is a new study out in Nature that is liable to be misinterpreted, or that may be flawed in a way that lends itself to misuse, in the context of climate science driven policy.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s already happened, Greg.  Yahoo runs this headline:</p>
<p>Climate forecasts may be flawed, says study</p>
<p>&#8220;Predictions of unprecedented rainfall extremes in the 20th century driven by global warming turned out wrong, a study said Wednesday, casting doubt on methods used to project future trends.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="https://in.news.yahoo.com/climate-forecasts-may-flawed-says-170007812.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://in.news.yahoo.com/climate-forecasts-may-flawed-says-170007812.html</a></p>
<p>Turned out to be wrong.  Wow.  Who writes this stuff?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ceist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469096</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ceist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469096</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Expert reactions:

Professor Steven Sherwood Director of the Climate Change Research Centre at The University of New South Wales:

“Previous studies, based on models, have shown that warming-induced trends in regional precipitation have not yet emerged from natural variability (“noise”). This seems inconsistent with the paper’s claim that the changes predicted by these same models are unrealistic, since it should not yet be possible to tell even according to the models themselves.”

Dr Markus Donat: 
“It seems to me that the researchers’ claim of discrepancies between climate models and proxies during the most recent century is based on an “apple-to-oranges-comparison”. They use proxies of water availability (that is affected by both precipitation and evaporation) but compare against modelled precipitation only.”

Dr James Renwick:
“I am not too surprised that there is disagreement for the 20th century as there is a strong component of random variability evident in the observational record. The picture of the “wet getting wetter and the dry getting drier” is one that is very likely to emerge over the course of this century but has not been evident, or expected, during the 20th century.”

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/wet-and-dry-models-on-climate-extremes-questioned]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expert reactions:</p>
<p>Professor Steven Sherwood Director of the Climate Change Research Centre at The University of New South Wales:</p>
<p>“Previous studies, based on models, have shown that warming-induced trends in regional precipitation have not yet emerged from natural variability (“noise”). This seems inconsistent with the paper’s claim that the changes predicted by these same models are unrealistic, since it should not yet be possible to tell even according to the models themselves.”</p>
<p>Dr Markus Donat:<br />
“It seems to me that the researchers’ claim of discrepancies between climate models and proxies during the most recent century is based on an “apple-to-oranges-comparison”. They use proxies of water availability (that is affected by both precipitation and evaporation) but compare against modelled precipitation only.”</p>
<p>Dr James Renwick:<br />
“I am not too surprised that there is disagreement for the 20th century as there is a strong component of random variability evident in the observational record. The picture of the “wet getting wetter and the dry getting drier” is one that is very likely to emerge over the course of this century but has not been evident, or expected, during the 20th century.”</p>
<p><a href="https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/wet-and-dry-models-on-climate-extremes-questioned" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/wet-and-dry-models-on-climate-extremes-questioned</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: zebra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zebra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[George #4,

The most obvious limiting factor would be soil saturation/runoff. 

How would you detect rainfall beyond that point through tree-rings?

But there are also going to be structural limiting factors, like available nutrients, operating in the longer term.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George #4,</p>
<p>The most obvious limiting factor would be soil saturation/runoff. </p>
<p>How would you detect rainfall beyond that point through tree-rings?</p>
<p>But there are also going to be structural limiting factors, like available nutrients, operating in the longer term.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469094</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469094</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Perhaps that is why he published on Facebook?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
More likely: this paper was just published? This comment was a first response to it. One cannot do the same thing on a publication&#039;s website. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;he discrepancy could arise, of course, from the opposite problem: that the paleoclimate proxy data are *underestimating* hydroclimatic extremes. In my view, that is a far more likely explanation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If that were all he said your comment about the alternate interpretation being just as likely would make  a little sense, but you leave out the reason for his comment: everything else after the word ``explanation&#039;&#039;. The comment is hardly an idle statement made in a vacuum.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Perhaps that is why he published on Facebook?</p></blockquote>
<p>More likely: this paper was just published? This comment was a first response to it. One cannot do the same thing on a publication&#8217;s website. </p>
<blockquote><p>he discrepancy could arise, of course, from the opposite problem: that the paleoclimate proxy data are *underestimating* hydroclimatic extremes. In my view, that is a far more likely explanation.</p></blockquote>
<p>If that were all he said your comment about the alternate interpretation being just as likely would make  a little sense, but you leave out the reason for his comment: everything else after the word &#8220;explanation&#8221;. The comment is hardly an idle statement made in a vacuum.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RickA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/04/06/new-climate-study-is-frenemy-of-climate-science-driven-policy/#comment-469093</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22346#comment-469093</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You ask &quot;How is saying “in my view” different from saying “this is just my personal opinion”?&quot;.

It is not.

That was my point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ask &#8220;How is saying “in my view” different from saying “this is just my personal opinion”?&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is not.</p>
<p>That was my point.</p>
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