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	Comments on: Keith Olbermann: Why Trump Wont Win	</title>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468970</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2016 14:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468970</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sure there are legal limits to a president&#039;s power, but there are also all sorts of ways, legal and illegal, for a president to get around them.  Consider, in our last major national crisis period, how FDR coerced the Supreme Court into accepting New Deal programs and regulations (down to restrictions on growing one&#039;s own food) and beguiled them into accepting the race-based caging of innocent civilians in concentration camps.  Or consider the way that the Cheney-Bush administration just declared that as a &quot;unitary executive&quot; they could ignore laws against torture.  If you acknowledge that Trump is either more vicious, or more soullessly willing to advance himself by catering to the most vicious among us, than Roosevelt or Bush, you have to fear what he might do in that office.

Nope, obviously this isn&#039;t &quot;the same crisis&quot; as faced by the Weimar Republic, which had already lost its empire and gotten its butt kicked by the last batch of foreigners it tried to oppress.  Those things are still in our future.  However, our working class no longer benefits from empire.  When Hitler took power, there had been over a decade of high unemployment and low wages.  That&#039;s the case for much of the U.S. today, in regions that increasingly look like &quot;less developed nations.&quot;  Just because you and I are doing okay doesn&#039;t mean that the country is.

Dean - Those who don&#039;t learn from history are condemned to repeat it.  One can be &quot;not a Nazi&quot; and yet be Nazi-like in one&#039;s desire to bring the government&#039;s jackboot down on some scapegoat group.  The purpose of remembering the Holocaust should be to enable future generations to recognize such poisonous ideologies at an early stage, so we can fight or undermine them before people are being hauled away in boxcars to slave labor camps.  Yes, sometimes people will claim parallels to early Nazism that don&#039;t exist, or are exaggerated through bias; but if nobody is allowed to comment on such parallels until the trains are actually rolling, it&#039;s too late.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure there are legal limits to a president&#8217;s power, but there are also all sorts of ways, legal and illegal, for a president to get around them.  Consider, in our last major national crisis period, how FDR coerced the Supreme Court into accepting New Deal programs and regulations (down to restrictions on growing one&#8217;s own food) and beguiled them into accepting the race-based caging of innocent civilians in concentration camps.  Or consider the way that the Cheney-Bush administration just declared that as a &#8220;unitary executive&#8221; they could ignore laws against torture.  If you acknowledge that Trump is either more vicious, or more soullessly willing to advance himself by catering to the most vicious among us, than Roosevelt or Bush, you have to fear what he might do in that office.</p>
<p>Nope, obviously this isn&#8217;t &#8220;the same crisis&#8221; as faced by the Weimar Republic, which had already lost its empire and gotten its butt kicked by the last batch of foreigners it tried to oppress.  Those things are still in our future.  However, our working class no longer benefits from empire.  When Hitler took power, there had been over a decade of high unemployment and low wages.  That&#8217;s the case for much of the U.S. today, in regions that increasingly look like &#8220;less developed nations.&#8221;  Just because you and I are doing okay doesn&#8217;t mean that the country is.</p>
<p>Dean &#8211; Those who don&#8217;t learn from history are condemned to repeat it.  One can be &#8220;not a Nazi&#8221; and yet be Nazi-like in one&#8217;s desire to bring the government&#8217;s jackboot down on some scapegoat group.  The purpose of remembering the Holocaust should be to enable future generations to recognize such poisonous ideologies at an early stage, so we can fight or undermine them before people are being hauled away in boxcars to slave labor camps.  Yes, sometimes people will claim parallels to early Nazism that don&#8217;t exist, or are exaggerated through bias; but if nobody is allowed to comment on such parallels until the trains are actually rolling, it&#8217;s too late.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468969</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2016 13:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468969</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But we don&#039;t do that in the US. Here, a win is a win, three wins by one vote is three times better than one win by a million votes along with two losses by one vote each.  We don&#039;t break our numbers down to more than two candidates, and when we do it is a total disaster.  Both the politics and math are too hard. Etc!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But we don&#8217;t do that in the US. Here, a win is a win, three wins by one vote is three times better than one win by a million votes along with two losses by one vote each.  We don&#8217;t break our numbers down to more than two candidates, and when we do it is a total disaster.  Both the politics and math are too hard. Etc!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrew Dodds		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468968</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Dodds]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468968</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A warning..

In the UK in 2005, the Labour party won the general election with an apparently comfortable majority.  However, some pointed out that winning 35% of the vote on a of a 65% turnout hardly constituted a popular mandate.  They were roundly ignored with all sorts of justifications, including from those who should have known better.

Now, of course, since 2015 we&#039;ve had a highly reactionary government installed in very similar circumstances. Perhaps 23% of the total voter population actually voted for them.

The message being that if a set of rules happens to give the result that you want this time, this does not make them good rules.  Deposing a candidate who was democratically elected on the grounds of his being a fruitcake sets a terrible, terrible precedent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A warning..</p>
<p>In the UK in 2005, the Labour party won the general election with an apparently comfortable majority.  However, some pointed out that winning 35% of the vote on a of a 65% turnout hardly constituted a popular mandate.  They were roundly ignored with all sorts of justifications, including from those who should have known better.</p>
<p>Now, of course, since 2015 we&#8217;ve had a highly reactionary government installed in very similar circumstances. Perhaps 23% of the total voter population actually voted for them.</p>
<p>The message being that if a set of rules happens to give the result that you want this time, this does not make them good rules.  Deposing a candidate who was democratically elected on the grounds of his being a fruitcake sets a terrible, terrible precedent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468967</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2016 01:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468967</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;As reprehensible as Trump is, suggesting that he’s an American Hitler is absolutely absurd.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agree. The only people we should identify with Nazis are other Nazis. 

With as many wild statements as he has made this campaign, and as different as many of them are from things he&#039;s said in years past, you have to wonder what, if anything, he really believes and what he knows he would try if elected? (I have no desire to find out the answer to the second part.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As reprehensible as Trump is, suggesting that he’s an American Hitler is absolutely absurd.</p></blockquote>
<p>Agree. The only people we should identify with Nazis are other Nazis. </p>
<p>With as many wild statements as he has made this campaign, and as different as many of them are from things he&#8217;s said in years past, you have to wonder what, if anything, he really believes and what he knows he would try if elected? (I have no desire to find out the answer to the second part.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468966</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2016 00:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468966</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Trump has no coherent ideology. &lt;/i&gt;

This is one of the reasons why the establishment doesn&#039;t like him, why they are afraid of him.  Not because he embraces a neo-Nazi ideology, but because he has no ideology.

Without an ideology, he has what to their minds are two fantastic and scary flaws:  They can&#039;t predict him, and they can&#039;t control him.

To the oligarchs, that&#039;s probably &lt;b&gt;worse&lt;/b&gt; than his being another modern-day Hitler.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Trump has no coherent ideology. </i></p>
<p>This is one of the reasons why the establishment doesn&#8217;t like him, why they are afraid of him.  Not because he embraces a neo-Nazi ideology, but because he has no ideology.</p>
<p>Without an ideology, he has what to their minds are two fantastic and scary flaws:  They can&#8217;t predict him, and they can&#8217;t control him.</p>
<p>To the oligarchs, that&#8217;s probably <b>worse</b> than his being another modern-day Hitler.</p>
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		<title>
		By: cosmicomics		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468965</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cosmicomics]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 23:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468965</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[#18
Trump has no coherent ideology. He has no program to replace American democracy as we know it with an authoritarian system. His backers have not been organized into a mass movement to enable this. His statements are so opportunistic and confused that you can find evidence of different tendencies within the same paragraph. I don&#039;t think you can find one statement that expresses &lt;i&gt;programmatic&lt;/i&gt; racism, or xenophobia, or misogyny. Don&#039;t confuse &lt;i&gt;The Art of the Deal&lt;/i&gt; with &lt;i&gt;Mein Kampf&lt;/i&gt;.

“Firstly, he tells his disaffected audiences, which include an unusual number of white supremacists, that he can make them better off by making those menacing or conniving nonwhites worse off.”
Please provide proof. I believe that Trump has argued that illegal immigration is also harmful to legal immigrants. 

“There are some war crimes our military would not commit? That will change when The Donald gives the order!”
You&#039;re misinformed. Trump has already backed down on this. There are limits to a president&#039;s power, so a President Trump would not be able to do whatever he wanted.

“ &#039;Strong&#039; leadership is not the means to achieving policy ends; leadership is the plan in itself.”
Leadership without policy is meaningless. He has some unachievable policy aims, like building a wall that Mexico will pay for. His “leadership” is based on Trump as dealmaker, and on the willingness of others to accept the deals Trump is proposing. 

“As for the situation of the U.S. now, we as a nation aren’t laboring under a Treaty of Versailles, but a large fraction of our working class might as well be.”
If this is meant to show that the U.S. today is undergoing the same crisis as the Weimar Republic and is subject to comparable strains, you haven&#039;t succeeded.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18<br />
Trump has no coherent ideology. He has no program to replace American democracy as we know it with an authoritarian system. His backers have not been organized into a mass movement to enable this. His statements are so opportunistic and confused that you can find evidence of different tendencies within the same paragraph. I don&#8217;t think you can find one statement that expresses <i>programmatic</i> racism, or xenophobia, or misogyny. Don&#8217;t confuse <i>The Art of the Deal</i> with <i>Mein Kampf</i>.</p>
<p>“Firstly, he tells his disaffected audiences, which include an unusual number of white supremacists, that he can make them better off by making those menacing or conniving nonwhites worse off.”<br />
Please provide proof. I believe that Trump has argued that illegal immigration is also harmful to legal immigrants. </p>
<p>“There are some war crimes our military would not commit? That will change when The Donald gives the order!”<br />
You&#8217;re misinformed. Trump has already backed down on this. There are limits to a president&#8217;s power, so a President Trump would not be able to do whatever he wanted.</p>
<p>“ &#8216;Strong&#8217; leadership is not the means to achieving policy ends; leadership is the plan in itself.”<br />
Leadership without policy is meaningless. He has some unachievable policy aims, like building a wall that Mexico will pay for. His “leadership” is based on Trump as dealmaker, and on the willingness of others to accept the deals Trump is proposing. </p>
<p>“As for the situation of the U.S. now, we as a nation aren’t laboring under a Treaty of Versailles, but a large fraction of our working class might as well be.”<br />
If this is meant to show that the U.S. today is undergoing the same crisis as the Weimar Republic and is subject to comparable strains, you haven&#8217;t succeeded.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468964</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468964</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry, it&#039;s not absurd.  What distinguishes Trump is not his virulent fearmongering against a minority religious group - which is typical of today&#039;s Republicans - but the combination of demagoguery and Fuhrerprinzip.  Firstly, he tells his disaffected audiences, which include an unusual number of white supremacists, that he can make them better off by making those menacing or conniving nonwhites worse off.  

Second, he does not explain how that will work, except through the fact that he will be in charge, and he is more capable than any other man of making Good Deals happen.  When it is pointed out that things he proposes are illegal, he is dismissive: he will just change that law.  Perhaps unilaterally, one gets the hint.  There are some war crimes our military would not commit?  That will change when The Donald gives the order!  &quot;Strong&quot; leadership is not the means to achieving policy ends; leadership is the plan in itself.  That is a component of fascism.

As for the situation of the U.S. now, we as a nation aren&#039;t laboring under a Treaty of Versailles, but a large fraction of our working class might as well be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, it&#8217;s not absurd.  What distinguishes Trump is not his virulent fearmongering against a minority religious group &#8211; which is typical of today&#8217;s Republicans &#8211; but the combination of demagoguery and Fuhrerprinzip.  Firstly, he tells his disaffected audiences, which include an unusual number of white supremacists, that he can make them better off by making those menacing or conniving nonwhites worse off.  </p>
<p>Second, he does not explain how that will work, except through the fact that he will be in charge, and he is more capable than any other man of making Good Deals happen.  When it is pointed out that things he proposes are illegal, he is dismissive: he will just change that law.  Perhaps unilaterally, one gets the hint.  There are some war crimes our military would not commit?  That will change when The Donald gives the order!  &#8220;Strong&#8221; leadership is not the means to achieving policy ends; leadership is the plan in itself.  That is a component of fascism.</p>
<p>As for the situation of the U.S. now, we as a nation aren&#8217;t laboring under a Treaty of Versailles, but a large fraction of our working class might as well be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: cosmicomics		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468963</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cosmicomics]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468963</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As reprehensible as Trump is, suggesting that he&#039;s an American Hitler is absolutely absurd.

Despite its problems, the U.S. of 2016 is not similar to the 1933 Weimar Republic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As reprehensible as Trump is, suggesting that he&#8217;s an American Hitler is absolutely absurd.</p>
<p>Despite its problems, the U.S. of 2016 is not similar to the 1933 Weimar Republic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: zebra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468962</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zebra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468962</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Winter #11,

Kasich. There is no downside for the establishment Republicans.

If the Dem nominee is Sanders, Kasich wins.
If it is Clinton, Kasich has a shot. Even if he loses, the down-ticket negative effects are minimized: &quot;See, we&#039;re the party of compassionate conservatism, not extremes.&quot;

Where exactly will the Trump supporters go? Most of them will probably find the prospect of having a woman president so disconcerting that they will forget all about the &quot;betrayal&quot; and vote anyway.

What matters to the Republicans is SCOTUS. This is their best shot to make it even more conservative or at least keep control of the Senate to continue obstruction.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Winter #11,</p>
<p>Kasich. There is no downside for the establishment Republicans.</p>
<p>If the Dem nominee is Sanders, Kasich wins.<br />
If it is Clinton, Kasich has a shot. Even if he loses, the down-ticket negative effects are minimized: &#8220;See, we&#8217;re the party of compassionate conservatism, not extremes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where exactly will the Trump supporters go? Most of them will probably find the prospect of having a woman president so disconcerting that they will forget all about the &#8220;betrayal&#8221; and vote anyway.</p>
<p>What matters to the Republicans is SCOTUS. This is their best shot to make it even more conservative or at least keep control of the Senate to continue obstruction.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/keith-olbermann-why-trump-wont-win/#comment-468961</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22316#comment-468961</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Who shall be our Louis and Marie?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who shall be our Louis and Marie?</p>
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