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	Comments on: Alaska, Washington, and Hawaii Democratic Caucuses: Results, Updated	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:55:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468942</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468942</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[All polls show Clinton winning NY, so I wouldn&#039;t get my hopes up there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All polls show Clinton winning NY, so I wouldn&#8217;t get my hopes up there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, in fact, Garreau considered Los Angeles the &quot;capital&quot; of the region.  I find Woodward&#039;s categories less appealing, partly because, with some regions bizarrely gerrymander-shaped or split into two far-distant chunks, they can&#039;t be more than abstractions used to interpret culture; it is impossible to imagine them serving as a basis for partition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, in fact, Garreau considered Los Angeles the &#8220;capital&#8221; of the region.  I find Woodward&#8217;s categories less appealing, partly because, with some regions bizarrely gerrymander-shaped or split into two far-distant chunks, they can&#8217;t be more than abstractions used to interpret culture; it is impossible to imagine them serving as a basis for partition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Donal		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jane, 
I&#039;ve also seen the US broken into Industrial, Plantation and Frontier economies - though there is certainly a lot of overlap, and one could argue that Frontier has become an Industrial/Frontier hybrid. 
I think NY is Sanders big nut to crack.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane,<br />
I&#8217;ve also seen the US broken into Industrial, Plantation and Frontier economies &#8211; though there is certainly a lot of overlap, and one could argue that Frontier has become an Industrial/Frontier hybrid.<br />
I think NY is Sanders big nut to crack.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RickR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468939</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468939</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jane:

If we go by the &#039;nations&#039; theory (either Garreau&#039;s 9 or Woodward&#039; 11) both agree that California has an overlap of three cultural regions: Ecotopia/Left Coast, Empty Quarter/Far West, and Mexamerica/El Norte. The Democrats in the first two seem to be fairly strongly pro-Sanders, while the third is pro-Clinton.

The eastern Empty Quarter/Far West portion is heavily republican, so despite the fact that the Democrats there are strongly pro-Sanders, that may not translate into a lot of Sander&#039;s votes, so Californina may come down to mainly the Ecotopia/Left Coast pro-Sanders voters and the Mexamerica/El Norte pro-Clnton voters. The Los Angeles area is, as I read the maps, in the Mexamerica/El Norte area, so by population this would give Clinton the edge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane:</p>
<p>If we go by the &#8216;nations&#8217; theory (either Garreau&#8217;s 9 or Woodward&#8217; 11) both agree that California has an overlap of three cultural regions: Ecotopia/Left Coast, Empty Quarter/Far West, and Mexamerica/El Norte. The Democrats in the first two seem to be fairly strongly pro-Sanders, while the third is pro-Clinton.</p>
<p>The eastern Empty Quarter/Far West portion is heavily republican, so despite the fact that the Democrats there are strongly pro-Sanders, that may not translate into a lot of Sander&#8217;s votes, so Californina may come down to mainly the Ecotopia/Left Coast pro-Sanders voters and the Mexamerica/El Norte pro-Clnton voters. The Los Angeles area is, as I read the maps, in the Mexamerica/El Norte area, so by population this would give Clinton the edge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468938</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468938</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[RickR - I&#039;ve been thinking about the relevance of Joel Garreau&#039;s Nine Nations of North America scenario to this election.  The book is now pretty dated and you could quibble with the boundaries drawn, but the basic idea that our supposedly monolithic imperial homeland is actually a mashup of several entities, with different economies and cultures, seems true to me.

We&#039;ve already established that Dixie, southern Florida, and what Garreau called &quot;Mexamerica&quot; heavily favor Clinton, while New England and &quot;Ecotopia&quot; (aka the Cascadian Republic) favor Sanders.  If we think of these as different &quot;nations&quot;, then as you say, it&#039;s not surprising that Greg&#039;s ethnic models need adjustment as the contests move across the map.  We wouldn&#039;t assume that white vs. black Englishmen or Frenchmen would vote the same way as Americans of the same races.

Most of the states still to vote are in Garreau&#039;s &quot;Foundry, Breadbasket, and Empty Quarter&quot; regions, the large majority of what coastal elites call Flyover.  These are industrial or rural regions with many blue-collar folks who have been crushed by globalization, so I might like to assume that they would vote heavily for Sanders.  However, the contests in these regions to date have included solid Clinton and Sanders wins as well as a couple of effective ties.  It remains to be seen which way, if at all, they will swing; at this point, an even split means a Clinton win.

Garreau&#039;s model also predicts that California will not be a blowout, as it is shared between three regions and has large population centers belonging to the &quot;Ecotopian&quot; and &quot;Mexamerican&quot; cultures, which may be expected to vote differently.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RickR &#8211; I&#8217;ve been thinking about the relevance of Joel Garreau&#8217;s Nine Nations of North America scenario to this election.  The book is now pretty dated and you could quibble with the boundaries drawn, but the basic idea that our supposedly monolithic imperial homeland is actually a mashup of several entities, with different economies and cultures, seems true to me.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve already established that Dixie, southern Florida, and what Garreau called &#8220;Mexamerica&#8221; heavily favor Clinton, while New England and &#8220;Ecotopia&#8221; (aka the Cascadian Republic) favor Sanders.  If we think of these as different &#8220;nations&#8221;, then as you say, it&#8217;s not surprising that Greg&#8217;s ethnic models need adjustment as the contests move across the map.  We wouldn&#8217;t assume that white vs. black Englishmen or Frenchmen would vote the same way as Americans of the same races.</p>
<p>Most of the states still to vote are in Garreau&#8217;s &#8220;Foundry, Breadbasket, and Empty Quarter&#8221; regions, the large majority of what coastal elites call Flyover.  These are industrial or rural regions with many blue-collar folks who have been crushed by globalization, so I might like to assume that they would vote heavily for Sanders.  However, the contests in these regions to date have included solid Clinton and Sanders wins as well as a couple of effective ties.  It remains to be seen which way, if at all, they will swing; at this point, an even split means a Clinton win.</p>
<p>Garreau&#8217;s model also predicts that California will not be a blowout, as it is shared between three regions and has large population centers belonging to the &#8220;Ecotopian&#8221; and &#8220;Mexamerican&#8221; cultures, which may be expected to vote differently.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468937</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468937</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Christopher, this is because of the way delegates are determined. The state has 101 delegates, which will ultimately be determined proportionately, so my number is close to correct or off by a few. But the process in some states is long and involved and the process doesn&#039;t necessarily happen right away.  Those other outlets are using incomplete information.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher, this is because of the way delegates are determined. The state has 101 delegates, which will ultimately be determined proportionately, so my number is close to correct or off by a few. But the process in some states is long and involved and the process doesn&#8217;t necessarily happen right away.  Those other outlets are using incomplete information.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RickR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468936</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2016 17:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468936</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As I have mentioned in a couple of previous comments, I have been tracking the democratic nomination race using a kind of &quot;pure&quot; ethnic model; I take normalized percentages of White, Black and Hispanic demographics for each state, fit the races so far to a linear model, and use it to see how well such a model can predict future races. Up through Ohio, it seemed to be doing reasonable well.

But as the races moved westward into the area of the country Colin Woodward &lt;a href=&quot;http://emerald.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;calls&lt;/a&gt;  &quot;the far west&quot;, the model has begun to fail. Adding the six states since Ohio (Arizona, Utah, Idaho), Washington, Alaska, and Hawaii) to the twenty-six previous races) increases the rms average error for the known states from about 7.3 percentage points to about 9.2 percentage points, with all six of the more recent states having errors greater than 10 percentage points.

This probably shouldn&#039;t be much a surprise, since this western part of the country is as culturally distinct from the rest of the country as is the South, although for some reason this fact is less commonly recognized.

There is basically no correlation between Clinton&#039;s share of the vote in the primaries and Obama&#039;s share of the vote in 2012 (the correlation is -0.17). I took the 2012 presidential results, and divided the states that have have democratic primaries so far and divided them up into four groups:
Obama won, Clinton won: 7 states (FL, IA, IL, MA, NV, OH, VA)
Obama won, Sanders won: 8 states (CO, HI, ME, MI, MN, NH, VT, WA)
Romney won, Clinton won: 11 states (AL, AR, AZ, GA, LA, MO, MS, NC, SC, TN, TX)
Romney won, Sanders won: 6 states (AK, ID, KS, NE, OK, UT)

With a couple of exceptions (such as AZ and CO) this sorts out most of the south into one group and the west into another group. It is the local culture, not ethnicity, that determines the tendencies of how people vote; ethnicity works to the degree that it correlates with culture. Once one moves out of the south, this correlation breaks down, so the model starts to fail.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I have mentioned in a couple of previous comments, I have been tracking the democratic nomination race using a kind of &#8220;pure&#8221; ethnic model; I take normalized percentages of White, Black and Hispanic demographics for each state, fit the races so far to a linear model, and use it to see how well such a model can predict future races. Up through Ohio, it seemed to be doing reasonable well.</p>
<p>But as the races moved westward into the area of the country Colin Woodward <a href="http://emerald.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html" rel="nofollow">calls</a>  &#8220;the far west&#8221;, the model has begun to fail. Adding the six states since Ohio (Arizona, Utah, Idaho), Washington, Alaska, and Hawaii) to the twenty-six previous races) increases the rms average error for the known states from about 7.3 percentage points to about 9.2 percentage points, with all six of the more recent states having errors greater than 10 percentage points.</p>
<p>This probably shouldn&#8217;t be much a surprise, since this western part of the country is as culturally distinct from the rest of the country as is the South, although for some reason this fact is less commonly recognized.</p>
<p>There is basically no correlation between Clinton&#8217;s share of the vote in the primaries and Obama&#8217;s share of the vote in 2012 (the correlation is -0.17). I took the 2012 presidential results, and divided the states that have have democratic primaries so far and divided them up into four groups:<br />
Obama won, Clinton won: 7 states (FL, IA, IL, MA, NV, OH, VA)<br />
Obama won, Sanders won: 8 states (CO, HI, ME, MI, MN, NH, VT, WA)<br />
Romney won, Clinton won: 11 states (AL, AR, AZ, GA, LA, MO, MS, NC, SC, TN, TX)<br />
Romney won, Sanders won: 6 states (AK, ID, KS, NE, OK, UT)</p>
<p>With a couple of exceptions (such as AZ and CO) this sorts out most of the south into one group and the west into another group. It is the local culture, not ethnicity, that determines the tendencies of how people vote; ethnicity works to the degree that it correlates with culture. Once one moves out of the south, this correlation breaks down, so the model starts to fail.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468935</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468935</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Maybe because it&#039;s Easter Sunday, the posted results for Washington differ greatly from yours. (Or I&#039;m not using the right sources.)

Both RealClearPolitics and the &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; put the delegate counts at Sanders 25, Clinton 9.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe because it&#8217;s Easter Sunday, the posted results for Washington differ greatly from yours. (Or I&#8217;m not using the right sources.)</p>
<p>Both RealClearPolitics and the <i>New York Times</i> put the delegate counts at Sanders 25, Clinton 9.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin O'Neill		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468934</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 14:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468934</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In New York your model may be confounded by the fact it&#039;s a Clinton home state; one she represented as US Senator.  That may give Bernie some psychological comfort, but won&#039;t help his delegate math.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In New York your model may be confounded by the fact it&#8217;s a Clinton home state; one she represented as US Senator.  That may give Bernie some psychological comfort, but won&#8217;t help his delegate math.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin O'Neill		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/26/alaska-washington-and-hawaii-democratic-caucuses/#comment-468933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 04:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22312#comment-468933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[With the final totals not yet in, the results should be close to this:

AK - Sanders 13, Clinton 3
WA - Sanders 73 Clinton 28
HI - Sanders 16 Clinton 9

Which gives Sanders one more delegate total (102) than your alternate model (101).  

It ain&#039;t over til it&#039;s over :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the final totals not yet in, the results should be close to this:</p>
<p>AK &#8211; Sanders 13, Clinton 3<br />
WA &#8211; Sanders 73 Clinton 28<br />
HI &#8211; Sanders 16 Clinton 9</p>
<p>Which gives Sanders one more delegate total (102) than your alternate model (101).  </p>
<p>It ain&#8217;t over til it&#8217;s over 🙂</p>
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