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	Comments on: Bernie Sanders&#8217; Strategy to Win the Nomination	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2016 22:57:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: idunno		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[idunno]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2016 22:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is the convention, I believe, for me to  say that I hate to say I told you so. This would be false. I love it.

I told you so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is the convention, I believe, for me to  say that I hate to say I told you so. This would be false. I love it.</p>
<p>I told you so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Donal		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2016 02:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I read the Millennials and Socialism article. &quot;Emily Ekins is a research fellow and director of polling at the Cato Institute.&quot; which is a libertarian think tank founded by one of the Kochs. Anyway the title is a bit of a straw man. Young Americans like the sort of socialism found in European democracies - not hardcore socialism where the workers own the means of production. Duh. The second claim - according to a Reason-Rupe poll - is that once they make more money, millennials don&#039;t want to pay higher taxes anymore. Reason is also libertarian, and I have no idea how they conducted the poll.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the Millennials and Socialism article. &#8220;Emily Ekins is a research fellow and director of polling at the Cato Institute.&#8221; which is a libertarian think tank founded by one of the Kochs. Anyway the title is a bit of a straw man. Young Americans like the sort of socialism found in European democracies &#8211; not hardcore socialism where the workers own the means of production. Duh. The second claim &#8211; according to a Reason-Rupe poll &#8211; is that once they make more money, millennials don&#8217;t want to pay higher taxes anymore. Reason is also libertarian, and I have no idea how they conducted the poll.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The WaPo story about &quot;millennials&quot; and &quot;socialism&quot; is paywalled to me (I already had my meager monthly quota of freebies).  Do you want to repeat the major conclusion?  Be advised I will take it with a grain of salt, since WaPo is about as unbiased a source as the NYT or Fixed News.  

I did recently see a poll that said most voters, all ages together, were not turned off by the word &quot;socialism.&quot;  If &quot;socialism&quot; means working on a kolkhoz, of course nobody wants it.  If it means a paycheck that keeps you under a roof, or the ability to go to a doctor when you&#039;re sick, that doesn&#039;t sound so bad.  Real socialism sucks.  Plutocrats have not done themselves or the English language any favor by defining any type of social safety net (except, nowadays, those for decrepit white folks) as &quot;socialism.&quot;  Working-class people are not terrified of safety nets.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The WaPo story about &#8220;millennials&#8221; and &#8220;socialism&#8221; is paywalled to me (I already had my meager monthly quota of freebies).  Do you want to repeat the major conclusion?  Be advised I will take it with a grain of salt, since WaPo is about as unbiased a source as the NYT or Fixed News.  </p>
<p>I did recently see a poll that said most voters, all ages together, were not turned off by the word &#8220;socialism.&#8221;  If &#8220;socialism&#8221; means working on a kolkhoz, of course nobody wants it.  If it means a paycheck that keeps you under a roof, or the ability to go to a doctor when you&#8217;re sick, that doesn&#8217;t sound so bad.  Real socialism sucks.  Plutocrats have not done themselves or the English language any favor by defining any type of social safety net (except, nowadays, those for decrepit white folks) as &#8220;socialism.&#8221;  Working-class people are not terrified of safety nets.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Heh!  Amusing, you are, but not very effective.  Logical types can go look up the poll.  It is a fact that several percent of the &quot;definite voters&quot; questioned would vote for Sanders over Kasich but Kasich over Clinton.  

Maybe that is because they are mental defectives, as you suggest, or maybe because it is because they view Clinton as too corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and secretive to be a good president.  Or maybe they are afraid that if she gets indicted in October, even her election would be followed immediately by an impeachment effort.

And I keep trying to explain that while Sanders (unlike Clinton) represents a left-wing liberal viewpoint, many of his voters do not.  They represent America&#039;s increasingly desperate and hopeless working class, a group in whom Clinton has not had much interest historically.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh!  Amusing, you are, but not very effective.  Logical types can go look up the poll.  It is a fact that several percent of the &#8220;definite voters&#8221; questioned would vote for Sanders over Kasich but Kasich over Clinton.  </p>
<p>Maybe that is because they are mental defectives, as you suggest, or maybe because it is because they view Clinton as too corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and secretive to be a good president.  Or maybe they are afraid that if she gets indicted in October, even her election would be followed immediately by an impeachment effort.</p>
<p>And I keep trying to explain that while Sanders (unlike Clinton) represents a left-wing liberal viewpoint, many of his voters do not.  They represent America&#8217;s increasingly desperate and hopeless working class, a group in whom Clinton has not had much interest historically.</p>
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		<title>
		By: zebra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zebra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 21:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468878</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Speaking of polling data, check out the Washington Post article

&quot;Milleniums like socialism-- until they get jobs.&quot;

Pretty much cover the bases.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of polling data, check out the Washington Post article</p>
<p>&#8220;Milleniums like socialism&#8211; until they get jobs.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pretty much cover the bases.</p>
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		<title>
		By: zebra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zebra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 20:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[jane #26,

I know it isn&#039;t going to have any effect on your understanding, but for those logical types among us, and to illustrate how pointless looking at these early polls is...

People who would vote for Sanders supposedly represent the very left, liberal viewpoint.

According to this poll, some of those people who would vote for Sanders against Kasich would completely turn around and vote for Kasich, who is extremely right-wing, against Clinton.

Either those people are lying, or are very stupid, or acting under the influence of some kind of mental/personality/cognitive disorder. 

In deciding who the best nominee would be, this kind of &quot;voter&quot; is just random noise-- there is no predictive value in this data.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jane #26,</p>
<p>I know it isn&#8217;t going to have any effect on your understanding, but for those logical types among us, and to illustrate how pointless looking at these early polls is&#8230;</p>
<p>People who would vote for Sanders supposedly represent the very left, liberal viewpoint.</p>
<p>According to this poll, some of those people who would vote for Sanders against Kasich would completely turn around and vote for Kasich, who is extremely right-wing, against Clinton.</p>
<p>Either those people are lying, or are very stupid, or acting under the influence of some kind of mental/personality/cognitive disorder. </p>
<p>In deciding who the best nominee would be, this kind of &#8220;voter&#8221; is just random noise&#8211; there is no predictive value in this data.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Someone on Slate linked to a new Bloomberg poll in which, given various election matchups, Kasich beat Clinton by four points but Sanders beat Kasich by four points.  Caveats: they asked these questions only of people who said they would definitely vote; a bunch still said they were undecided; and something like 44% vs 30% had voted for Obama vs. Romney in 2012, meaning that they weren&#039;t representative of the general public.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone on Slate linked to a new Bloomberg poll in which, given various election matchups, Kasich beat Clinton by four points but Sanders beat Kasich by four points.  Caveats: they asked these questions only of people who said they would definitely vote; a bunch still said they were undecided; and something like 44% vs 30% had voted for Obama vs. Romney in 2012, meaning that they weren&#8217;t representative of the general public.</p>
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		<title>
		By: zebra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zebra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am trying to decide if 75% of the people who make comments like tim&#039;s in newspapers and here are Republican troll sock-puppets.... or only 50%.

Now &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; would be an interesting research project.

But I have to give the R&#039;s credit-- it is probably a pretty cost-effective way to achieve voter suppression without all the bad publicity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am trying to decide if 75% of the people who make comments like tim&#8217;s in newspapers and here are Republican troll sock-puppets&#8230;. or only 50%.</p>
<p>Now <i>that</i> would be an interesting research project.</p>
<p>But I have to give the R&#8217;s credit&#8211; it is probably a pretty cost-effective way to achieve voter suppression without all the bad publicity.</p>
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		<title>
		By: tim@facttotruth		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tim@facttotruth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Have you by chance come to the realization that they aren&#039;t as much conspiracy theories but the actual true history of these United States for the first time in modern times being talked about by a leading Presidential candidate. Keep denying the lies that have been used to put shackles around the people of America. Its people ,who like you, are trying to get people to look away from the facts and to believe the half truths that they spread across the American airwaves who are controlled by a total of 6 media corporations owning 90% of all Print, Radio , and Television, that are destroying America. But keep blindly following the ones who would make you their Indentured Servant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you by chance come to the realization that they aren&#8217;t as much conspiracy theories but the actual true history of these United States for the first time in modern times being talked about by a leading Presidential candidate. Keep denying the lies that have been used to put shackles around the people of America. Its people ,who like you, are trying to get people to look away from the facts and to believe the half truths that they spread across the American airwaves who are controlled by a total of 6 media corporations owning 90% of all Print, Radio , and Television, that are destroying America. But keep blindly following the ones who would make you their Indentured Servant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/03/23/bernie-sanders-strategy-to-win-the-nomination/#comment-468873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22302#comment-468873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually, I see that a poll this week claims that Cruz would come closer than Trump would to beating Clinton.  (Sanders polls better than Clinton against both.)  However, I don&#039;t believe that would hold up after a few bipartisan debates in which Cruz&#039;s alarming religious beliefs and possible intention to shut the whole federal government down indefinitely were highlighted.  The GOP-only debates have soft-pedaled his extremism.  Sadly, Trump&#039;s version of populism will attract many more general-election voters.

Zebra - I said a while ago that Kasich was the GOP&#039;s best candidate left, which at the time you didn&#039;t like.  I agree that, since he&#039;s also establishment, Hillary could be the safer choice against him.  However, he&#039;s a very distant third and had almost no hope of being nominated even before Drumpf started saying his followers would riot if he wasn&#039;t nominated - then advising his followers to pack heat.  The GOP is in a very ugly and dangerous predicament now (and yes, they got themselves there, and it&#039;s tempting to wallow in Schadenfreude except for the fact that the rest of us may end up getting what they deserve).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I see that a poll this week claims that Cruz would come closer than Trump would to beating Clinton.  (Sanders polls better than Clinton against both.)  However, I don&#8217;t believe that would hold up after a few bipartisan debates in which Cruz&#8217;s alarming religious beliefs and possible intention to shut the whole federal government down indefinitely were highlighted.  The GOP-only debates have soft-pedaled his extremism.  Sadly, Trump&#8217;s version of populism will attract many more general-election voters.</p>
<p>Zebra &#8211; I said a while ago that Kasich was the GOP&#8217;s best candidate left, which at the time you didn&#8217;t like.  I agree that, since he&#8217;s also establishment, Hillary could be the safer choice against him.  However, he&#8217;s a very distant third and had almost no hope of being nominated even before Drumpf started saying his followers would riot if he wasn&#8217;t nominated &#8211; then advising his followers to pack heat.  The GOP is in a very ugly and dangerous predicament now (and yes, they got themselves there, and it&#8217;s tempting to wallow in Schadenfreude except for the fact that the rest of us may end up getting what they deserve).</p>
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