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	Comments on: Will Clinton or Sanders win the Democratic Nomination?	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/</link>
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		By: Who Will Win The Next Several Primaries: Clinton or Sanders? &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468041</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Who Will Win The Next Several Primaries: Clinton or Sanders? &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468041</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] recently developed a model of how the primary race will play out between Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Bernie [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] recently developed a model of how the primary race will play out between Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Bernie [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Comparing Sanders and Clinton: Primary and general election prospects &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Comparing Sanders and Clinton: Primary and general election prospects &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 17:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] I’ve written before about the Ethnic Effect, which is important this year for a number of reasons. I’m looking to both Nevada, with a lot of Hispanic voters in the Democratic party, and South Carolina, with a lot of African American voters in the Democratic party, to inform us, at least initially, as to how this is going to play out. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I’ve written before about the Ethnic Effect, which is important this year for a number of reasons. I’m looking to both Nevada, with a lot of Hispanic voters in the Democratic party, and South Carolina, with a lot of African American voters in the Democratic party, to inform us, at least initially, as to how this is going to play out. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468039</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 18:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468039</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jesse, thanks for the link.  Similar approach to the one I took. 

MN is not clear at all.  At the moment Clinton seems way ahead among Democrats, but there seems to be strong and growing support for Sanders.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse, thanks for the link.  Similar approach to the one I took. </p>
<p>MN is not clear at all.  At the moment Clinton seems way ahead among Democrats, but there seems to be strong and growing support for Sanders.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468038</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 18:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468038</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jane, this has never happened. The interested parties generally know little about how the system works. Uncommitted delegates are responsible for their vote.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, this has never happened. The interested parties generally know little about how the system works. Uncommitted delegates are responsible for their vote.</p>
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		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468037</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 18:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468037</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Endorsements by uncommitted and unelected delegates don&#039;t lead to &quot;conspiracist ideation&quot; (&quot;ideation&quot; seems to mean &quot;thought that the speaker dislikes&quot;) by interested parties.  They lead to interested parties&#039; observing the very real, very public possibility that the person who gets a solid majority of the votes in the primary election campaign will be declared the loser.  Clinton tried to win by that route in 2008 and it did not work for her, so probably it won&#039;t work now, but the route should not be available.  &quot;Minority wins&quot; is the Republican way of doing things.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Endorsements by uncommitted and unelected delegates don&#8217;t lead to &#8220;conspiracist ideation&#8221; (&#8220;ideation&#8221; seems to mean &#8220;thought that the speaker dislikes&#8221;) by interested parties.  They lead to interested parties&#8217; observing the very real, very public possibility that the person who gets a solid majority of the votes in the primary election campaign will be declared the loser.  Clinton tried to win by that route in 2008 and it did not work for her, so probably it won&#8217;t work now, but the route should not be available.  &#8220;Minority wins&#8221; is the Republican way of doing things.</p>
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		By: Jesse		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468036</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468036</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This might be of interest. 

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/

And I would suspect that Sanders will do well in MN as well as WI. Massachusetts, as I&#039;ve said before, is probably a good bet. But in the South he has to hope that he just loses by smaller -- much smaller- margins than predicted. And I suspect that PA is *not* going to be all that friendly to Sanders, nor states like New Jersey (which has a heavy influence of the &quot;machine&quot; and simply isn&#039;t good demographics for Sanders).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might be of interest. </p>
<p><a href="http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanderss-path-to-the-nomination/</a></p>
<p>And I would suspect that Sanders will do well in MN as well as WI. Massachusetts, as I&#8217;ve said before, is probably a good bet. But in the South he has to hope that he just loses by smaller &#8212; much smaller- margins than predicted. And I suspect that PA is *not* going to be all that friendly to Sanders, nor states like New Jersey (which has a heavy influence of the &#8220;machine&#8221; and simply isn&#8217;t good demographics for Sanders).</p>
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		By: Kevin O'Neill		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468035</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2016 16:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468035</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you &lt;a href=&quot;http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/dem/scdem.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;look at the tab&lt;/a&gt; from the latest South Carolina poll, Clinton has a 74% to 19% advantage among African-American likely voters.  Unless Sanders can reduce this advantage significantly in the coming weeks I&#039;d agree with Greg&#039;s first model and put the nomination out of his reach.

I think the attack on Sanders&#039; civil rights activism is designed to raise doubts about him particularly in the African-American community. Unfortunately this type of swiftboating isn&#039;t uncommon anymore in American politics.  

Alternet, for instance, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alternet.org/media/how-washington-post-writers-attack-bernies-civil-rights-record-completely-backfired&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;headlined their story&lt;/a&gt; on the piece &quot;
How a Washington Post Writer&#039;s Attack on Bernie Sanders&#039; Civil Rights Record Completely Backfired.&#039; That&#039;s not likely. I think most people are aware that the original story does damage and the subsequent &#039;walk-back,&#039; even eventual retraction, rarely undoes the original damage.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you <a href="http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/dem/scdem.html" rel="nofollow">look at the tab</a> from the latest South Carolina poll, Clinton has a 74% to 19% advantage among African-American likely voters.  Unless Sanders can reduce this advantage significantly in the coming weeks I&#8217;d agree with Greg&#8217;s first model and put the nomination out of his reach.</p>
<p>I think the attack on Sanders&#8217; civil rights activism is designed to raise doubts about him particularly in the African-American community. Unfortunately this type of swiftboating isn&#8217;t uncommon anymore in American politics.  </p>
<p>Alternet, for instance, <a href="http://www.alternet.org/media/how-washington-post-writers-attack-bernies-civil-rights-record-completely-backfired" rel="nofollow">headlined their story</a> on the piece &#8221;<br />
How a Washington Post Writer&#8217;s Attack on Bernie Sanders&#8217; Civil Rights Record Completely Backfired.&#8217; That&#8217;s not likely. I think most people are aware that the original story does damage and the subsequent &#8216;walk-back,&#8217; even eventual retraction, rarely undoes the original damage.</p>
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		By: zebra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468034</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zebra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2016 18:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468034</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Returning to the subject of my comment on the previous politics post, which is electability:

I can&#039;t remember where I read the article (NYT?) but it discussed the different psychology of Black voters in particular, and perhaps it applies to &quot;Hispanics&quot; as well. 

Having been disappointed and taken for granted and so on for...well, forever... they are disinclined to engage in wishful thinking; they do not have high expectations that a &quot;revolution&quot; is suddenly going to make their lives better. If anything, the election of President Obama served to bring out the very strong underlying racism in the US, not get us past it, reinforcing that skepticism.

So, I would say the proposed shift in minority response of the second model is a bit extreme. People without trust funds tend to be more conservative; the downside of a Republican victory matters a whole lot to the disadvantaged and potentially disenfranchised.

Also, I&#039;m not sure why there would be much (potential) local variation. If we saw your projected numbers in a few early states, I think it would be a safe bet that Sanders would eventually be the victor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Returning to the subject of my comment on the previous politics post, which is electability:</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t remember where I read the article (NYT?) but it discussed the different psychology of Black voters in particular, and perhaps it applies to &#8220;Hispanics&#8221; as well. </p>
<p>Having been disappointed and taken for granted and so on for&#8230;well, forever&#8230; they are disinclined to engage in wishful thinking; they do not have high expectations that a &#8220;revolution&#8221; is suddenly going to make their lives better. If anything, the election of President Obama served to bring out the very strong underlying racism in the US, not get us past it, reinforcing that skepticism.</p>
<p>So, I would say the proposed shift in minority response of the second model is a bit extreme. People without trust funds tend to be more conservative; the downside of a Republican victory matters a whole lot to the disadvantaged and potentially disenfranchised.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not sure why there would be much (potential) local variation. If we saw your projected numbers in a few early states, I think it would be a safe bet that Sanders would eventually be the victor.</p>
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		By: Kevin O'Neill		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468033</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2016 02:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468033</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Victor beat me to it on the Nevada poll and, yes, it is interesting.  Not sure that Nevada&#039;s results are really outside of expectations, but the poll does provide support for those that have speculated it could be ripe for a Sanders victory.  

Victor, you do have to understand that Bill Clinton is often referred to as America&#039;s *first* black president. That&#039;s an indication of how well-loved he was by the African-American community. And in most southern states the African-American vote is more than 50% of the Democratic Party vote - so success in that demographic group is crucial.

If we go back 8 years, we can find &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802364.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this in the Washington Post&lt;/a&gt;: 

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Obama has swamped Clinton among black voters in each of the 20 contests that had exit polls and large enough samples of African Americans to be meaningful. Just to put that kind of shutout in perspective, black voters represent the only demographic group that the New York senator has not carried at least once during the Democratic primary campaign. Obama now has such a lock on the loyalties of African Americans -- 84 percent of the black vote in Alabama, 87 percent in Georgia, 84 percent in Maryland, and on and on -- that the black vote is no longer contestable.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The problem for Clinton now is: Will they come back to her?  They jilted her once -- granted for an actual African-American candidate -- but jilted her nonetheless.  Add to that the fact younger voters don&#039;t remember her husband as President.  *BUT* if she can solidly lock up the African-American vote (Greg&#039;s 70-30 ratio) she should win the nomination.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victor beat me to it on the Nevada poll and, yes, it is interesting.  Not sure that Nevada&#8217;s results are really outside of expectations, but the poll does provide support for those that have speculated it could be ripe for a Sanders victory.  </p>
<p>Victor, you do have to understand that Bill Clinton is often referred to as America&#8217;s *first* black president. That&#8217;s an indication of how well-loved he was by the African-American community. And in most southern states the African-American vote is more than 50% of the Democratic Party vote &#8211; so success in that demographic group is crucial.</p>
<p>If we go back 8 years, we can find <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802364.html" rel="nofollow">this in the Washington Post</a>: </p>
<p><i>&#8220;Obama has swamped Clinton among black voters in each of the 20 contests that had exit polls and large enough samples of African Americans to be meaningful. Just to put that kind of shutout in perspective, black voters represent the only demographic group that the New York senator has not carried at least once during the Democratic primary campaign. Obama now has such a lock on the loyalties of African Americans &#8212; 84 percent of the black vote in Alabama, 87 percent in Georgia, 84 percent in Maryland, and on and on &#8212; that the black vote is no longer contestable.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The problem for Clinton now is: Will they come back to her?  They jilted her once &#8212; granted for an actual African-American candidate &#8212; but jilted her nonetheless.  Add to that the fact younger voters don&#8217;t remember her husband as President.  *BUT* if she can solidly lock up the African-American vote (Greg&#8217;s 70-30 ratio) she should win the nomination.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/02/12/will-clinton-or-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination/#comment-468032</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22139#comment-468032</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Victor, interesting poll.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victor, interesting poll.</p>
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