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	Comments on: The Clinton-Sanders Race in Historical Context UPDATED	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/</link>
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		By: March 15th Democratic Primary Results: What does it mean? &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467672</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[March 15th Democratic Primary Results: What does it mean? &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2016 03:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467672</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] of the primary season, for one or another thing to happen. You will recall that I repeatedly posted a graphic comparing the Clinton-Sanders popular standing in national polls with the same graph for O&#8230;. The idea was to show the flip between the heir apparent, Clinton, and the other guy. In the case [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of the primary season, for one or another thing to happen. You will recall that I repeatedly posted a graphic comparing the Clinton-Sanders popular standing in national polls with the same graph for O&#8230;. The idea was to show the flip between the heir apparent, Clinton, and the other guy. In the case [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Who Won The Democratic Debate of 17 January 2016? &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467671</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Who Won The Democratic Debate of 17 January 2016? &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467671</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] may well turn out that this debate is part of the transition I documented and described here, which is parallel to a transition that happened in the Clinton-Obama [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] may well turn out that this debate is part of the transition I documented and described here, which is parallel to a transition that happened in the Clinton-Obama [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467670</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2016 15:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467670</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467669&quot;&gt;Phil&lt;/a&gt;.

Phil: &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;I wonder about those predictions though. According to Bayes theorem, new information changes the next decision. Therefore if Sanders wins Iowa won’t that change Sanders chances in his favor?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

Yes, very much so, unfortunately. Humans change their opinions based on what other peoples&#039; public opinions are. Scary, eh?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467669">Phil</a>.</p>
<p>Phil: <b><i>I wonder about those predictions though. According to Bayes theorem, new information changes the next decision. Therefore if Sanders wins Iowa won’t that change Sanders chances in his favor?</i></b></p>
<p>Yes, very much so, unfortunately. Humans change their opinions based on what other peoples&#8217; public opinions are. Scary, eh?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Phil		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467669</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2016 08:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467669</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wonder about those predictions though. According to Bayes theorem, new information changes the next decision. Therefore if Sanders wins Iowa won&#039;t that change Sanders chances in his favor?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder about those predictions though. According to Bayes theorem, new information changes the next decision. Therefore if Sanders wins Iowa won&#8217;t that change Sanders chances in his favor?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467668</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2016 19:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467668</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cosmi, while you&#039;re at it, we really need to change our voting scheme.  It, too, is archaic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cosmi, while you&#8217;re at it, we really need to change our voting scheme.  It, too, is archaic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: cosmicomics		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467667</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cosmicomics]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467667</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[...between a Republican and a Democrat...

Not to mention your electoral college, which in three cases has elected the candidate with the fewest votes. Your electoral system was designed for conditions in the 1790s, not conditions today.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;between a Republican and a Democrat&#8230;</p>
<p>Not to mention your electoral college, which in three cases has elected the candidate with the fewest votes. Your electoral system was designed for conditions in the 1790s, not conditions today.</p>
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		<title>
		By: cosmicomics		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cosmicomics]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can understand why the choice between Republican and a Democrat is extraordinarily important, but it seems to me that the choice between Clinton and Sanders is essentially meaningless. The winner would be faced with an intractable, destructive Congress that would stand in the way of any change for the better. A Democratic victory would be limited to defending past accomplishments, no matter who wins. A Republican victory would decimate more than 80 years of progress.

And with or without gerrymandering, a winner take all system is undemocratic and does not reflect the will of the electorate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand why the choice between Republican and a Democrat is extraordinarily important, but it seems to me that the choice between Clinton and Sanders is essentially meaningless. The winner would be faced with an intractable, destructive Congress that would stand in the way of any change for the better. A Democratic victory would be limited to defending past accomplishments, no matter who wins. A Republican victory would decimate more than 80 years of progress.</p>
<p>And with or without gerrymandering, a winner take all system is undemocratic and does not reflect the will of the electorate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467665</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2016 16:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467665</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, what you&#039;re telling us is that in Michigan, there is a provision in its state Constitution that says that the state is not a democracy, that the will of the people is henceforth nullified, that its legislative representatives no longer have the power to represent an electorate who no longer have the power to vote for anything meaningful.  

I.e., the Winged Monkeys have achieved their nirvana: Complete takeover and irreversible control of the government to now do as they please, the public be damned.

Interesting question: If somehow a law got passed to burn Snyder at the stake, and it had a small apportionment attached to it (to buy the rope, stake, and faggots, I suppose), would Snyder&#039;s goose indeed be cooked?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what you&#8217;re telling us is that in Michigan, there is a provision in its state Constitution that says that the state is not a democracy, that the will of the people is henceforth nullified, that its legislative representatives no longer have the power to represent an electorate who no longer have the power to vote for anything meaningful.  </p>
<p>I.e., the Winged Monkeys have achieved their nirvana: Complete takeover and irreversible control of the government to now do as they please, the public be damned.</p>
<p>Interesting question: If somehow a law got passed to burn Snyder at the stake, and it had a small apportionment attached to it (to buy the rope, stake, and faggots, I suppose), would Snyder&#8217;s goose indeed be cooked?</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467664</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467664</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Okay: you win! Good bloody gods!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh it gets &quot;better&quot;. There is a provision in our state Constitution that says any law passed with an apportionment of money attached cannot be changed by voter referendum. 
The emergency manager law (designed to let the state impose a manager on a city the administration decides can&#039;t be trusted to govern itself)  Snyder has passed was, in its original form, voted out by the public in a referendum. It was passed again, with a small apportionment included. Can&#039;t be touched. It was the Flint city emergency manager that was in charge of the change to the water supply, against advice from experts. The two laws I mentioned earlier also have apportionments attached to them. Several others have been passed this same way: the right to work law (which Snyder originally said he would not sign but then did), a law that protects adoption agencies run by religious organizations so they can continue to get state money while refusing to serve people who don&#039;t meet their religious requirements, and more. 

Of course, none of the monies specified in these apportionments has ever been used, due to &quot;fiscal responsibility.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Okay: you win! Good bloody gods!</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh it gets &#8220;better&#8221;. There is a provision in our state Constitution that says any law passed with an apportionment of money attached cannot be changed by voter referendum.<br />
The emergency manager law (designed to let the state impose a manager on a city the administration decides can&#8217;t be trusted to govern itself)  Snyder has passed was, in its original form, voted out by the public in a referendum. It was passed again, with a small apportionment included. Can&#8217;t be touched. It was the Flint city emergency manager that was in charge of the change to the water supply, against advice from experts. The two laws I mentioned earlier also have apportionments attached to them. Several others have been passed this same way: the right to work law (which Snyder originally said he would not sign but then did), a law that protects adoption agencies run by religious organizations so they can continue to get state money while refusing to serve people who don&#8217;t meet their religious requirements, and more. </p>
<p>Of course, none of the monies specified in these apportionments has ever been used, due to &#8220;fiscal responsibility.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/14/the-clinton-sanders-race-in-historical-context/#comment-467663</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2016 23:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22032#comment-467663</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Governor Martinez ... also shut down the public-assisted mental health care services system in the state.&lt;i&gt;

As has been done in many states.  Next time you see a mentally ill person wandering the public streets, thank a conservative voter.  

Their elected winged monkeys turned them out on the streets and closed the mental health service centers and hospitals in order to avoid having to pay taxes to support them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Governor Martinez &#8230; also shut down the public-assisted mental health care services system in the state.</i><i></p>
<p>As has been done in many states.  Next time you see a mentally ill person wandering the public streets, thank a conservative voter.  </p>
<p>Their elected winged monkeys turned them out on the streets and closed the mental health service centers and hospitals in order to avoid having to pay taxes to support them.</i></p>
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