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	Comments on: About That Satellite Data	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Brian Dodge		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467575</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467575</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Tropospheric hotspot (which has been observed-http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/10/5/054007/meta) is probably not as pronounced as the ensemble of climate models project, 

which is also why it can&#039;t be observed except by newer careful analysis of existing radiosonde data; this study by  Sherwood et al confirms  &quot;... as shown in previous studies, tropospheric warming 

does not reach quite as high in the tropics and subtropics as predicted in typical models.&quot; Which is also why Dr. Christy&#039;s graph of satellite mid tropospheric temperature increase observations are 

smaller than predicted by models(independent confirmation). The energy(latent and sensible heat) transported by convection higher in the atmosphere will more easily radiate away to space because 

the absolute number of CO2 molecules intervening is reduced proportionally to the atmospheric pressure. Because H2O isn&#039;t well mixed,  water vapor GHG effect declines faster than proportional to 

pressure altitude. The largest uncertainties in climate models are in cloud effects; those uncertainties also affect the accuracy of latent heat transport, which is tied to the moist/effective lapse rate, 

the vertical distribution of water vapor GHG forcings, and scattering of IR within clouds(which increases apparent path length, and effectively increases the apparent ghg absorption). 

As Dessler &#038; Sherwood point out in &quot;A Matter of Humidity, 20 FEBRUARY 2009,  VOL 323, SCIENCE&quot; , http://geotest.tamu.edu/userfiles/216/dessler09.pdf
&quot;The spread among models in the water vapor feedback is, however, largely compensated by an opposite spread in the “lapse-rate feedback,” a negative feedback that occurs because a warmer atmosphere radiates more power to space, thereby reducing net surface warming.&quot; 

Or, from wikipedia (trust, sort of, but verify) -
&quot;The atmosphere&#039;s temperature decreases with height in the troposphere. Since emission of infrared radiation varies with temperature, longwave radiation escaping to space from the relatively cold 

upper atmosphere is less than that emitted toward the ground from the lower atmosphere. Thus, the strength of the greenhouse effect depends on the atmosphere&#039;s rate of temperature decrease 

with height. Both theory and climate models indicate that global warming will reduce the rate of temperature decrease with height, producing a negative lapse rate feedback that weakens the 

greenhouse effect. Measurements of the rate of temperature change with height are very sensitive to small errors in observations, making it difficult to establish whether the models agree with 

observations.&quot;

How &quot; largely compensated&quot; climate sensitivity is by lapse rate feedback, &quot;very sensitive to small errors in observations&quot;,  has been better constrained by satellite (thank you, Dr Christy et al) and radiosonde (thank you, Dr. Sherwood et al) data; the observed tropospheric temperatures are lower, the radiation to space from there is less, the negative feedback is less, therefore observed  climate sensitivity (same forcing + same positive feedback + less negative feedback) must be higher than models project. QED. It&#039;s right there in the Congressional Record - ask Dr Christy(thanks again!). 

Or did you expect &quot;I&#039;m a retired curmudgeon with enough time on my hands to read more peer reviewed literature and IPCC reports than most bloggers, therefore aware of what&#039;s blindingly obvious if you&#039;re paying attention. I&#039;m a college dropout - If I can see the sleight of hand between Dr Christy&#039;s &quot;here&#039;s a graph that shows the mid troposphere isn&#039;t warming as much as models predict&quot; and &quot;therefore global warming is a hoax promulgated by paedophile climate scientists to collect grant money and destroy &#039;Murrican sovereignty&quot;, then why can&#039;t  Cruz, Inhofe, Trump, the Koch bros, and Rex Tillerson see it? Are they THAT stupid?&quot;
I would note that the scientists that informed Exxon back in the eighties that global warming was scientiic fact are still being funded, and that the National Academy of Science is still 85% funded by the Federal Gummint - despite there being Republican majorities in the House (where funding bills originate) and the Senate(which must concur). If AGW s really a gravy train conspiracy, why haven&#039;t they put their money where their mouth is?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Tropospheric hotspot (which has been observed-http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/10/5/054007/meta) is probably not as pronounced as the ensemble of climate models project, </p>
<p>which is also why it can&#8217;t be observed except by newer careful analysis of existing radiosonde data; this study by  Sherwood et al confirms  &#8220;&#8230; as shown in previous studies, tropospheric warming </p>
<p>does not reach quite as high in the tropics and subtropics as predicted in typical models.&#8221; Which is also why Dr. Christy&#8217;s graph of satellite mid tropospheric temperature increase observations are </p>
<p>smaller than predicted by models(independent confirmation). The energy(latent and sensible heat) transported by convection higher in the atmosphere will more easily radiate away to space because </p>
<p>the absolute number of CO2 molecules intervening is reduced proportionally to the atmospheric pressure. Because H2O isn&#8217;t well mixed,  water vapor GHG effect declines faster than proportional to </p>
<p>pressure altitude. The largest uncertainties in climate models are in cloud effects; those uncertainties also affect the accuracy of latent heat transport, which is tied to the moist/effective lapse rate, </p>
<p>the vertical distribution of water vapor GHG forcings, and scattering of IR within clouds(which increases apparent path length, and effectively increases the apparent ghg absorption). </p>
<p>As Dessler &amp; Sherwood point out in &#8220;A Matter of Humidity, 20 FEBRUARY 2009,  VOL 323, SCIENCE&#8221; , <a href="http://geotest.tamu.edu/userfiles/216/dessler09.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://geotest.tamu.edu/userfiles/216/dessler09.pdf</a><br />
&#8220;The spread among models in the water vapor feedback is, however, largely compensated by an opposite spread in the “lapse-rate feedback,” a negative feedback that occurs because a warmer atmosphere radiates more power to space, thereby reducing net surface warming.&#8221; </p>
<p>Or, from wikipedia (trust, sort of, but verify) &#8211;<br />
&#8220;The atmosphere&#8217;s temperature decreases with height in the troposphere. Since emission of infrared radiation varies with temperature, longwave radiation escaping to space from the relatively cold </p>
<p>upper atmosphere is less than that emitted toward the ground from the lower atmosphere. Thus, the strength of the greenhouse effect depends on the atmosphere&#8217;s rate of temperature decrease </p>
<p>with height. Both theory and climate models indicate that global warming will reduce the rate of temperature decrease with height, producing a negative lapse rate feedback that weakens the </p>
<p>greenhouse effect. Measurements of the rate of temperature change with height are very sensitive to small errors in observations, making it difficult to establish whether the models agree with </p>
<p>observations.&#8221;</p>
<p>How &#8221; largely compensated&#8221; climate sensitivity is by lapse rate feedback, &#8220;very sensitive to small errors in observations&#8221;,  has been better constrained by satellite (thank you, Dr Christy et al) and radiosonde (thank you, Dr. Sherwood et al) data; the observed tropospheric temperatures are lower, the radiation to space from there is less, the negative feedback is less, therefore observed  climate sensitivity (same forcing + same positive feedback + less negative feedback) must be higher than models project. QED. It&#8217;s right there in the Congressional Record &#8211; ask Dr Christy(thanks again!). </p>
<p>Or did you expect &#8220;I&#8217;m a retired curmudgeon with enough time on my hands to read more peer reviewed literature and IPCC reports than most bloggers, therefore aware of what&#8217;s blindingly obvious if you&#8217;re paying attention. I&#8217;m a college dropout &#8211; If I can see the sleight of hand between Dr Christy&#8217;s &#8220;here&#8217;s a graph that shows the mid troposphere isn&#8217;t warming as much as models predict&#8221; and &#8220;therefore global warming is a hoax promulgated by paedophile climate scientists to collect grant money and destroy &#8216;Murrican sovereignty&#8221;, then why can&#8217;t  Cruz, Inhofe, Trump, the Koch bros, and Rex Tillerson see it? Are they THAT stupid?&#8221;<br />
I would note that the scientists that informed Exxon back in the eighties that global warming was scientiic fact are still being funded, and that the National Academy of Science is still 85% funded by the Federal Gummint &#8211; despite there being Republican majorities in the House (where funding bills originate) and the Senate(which must concur). If AGW s really a gravy train conspiracy, why haven&#8217;t they put their money where their mouth is?</p>
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		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467574</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2016 02:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467574</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;&quot;Ah, okay, I give up: you “know” that how, exactly?&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

Still waiting for an answer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>&#8220;Ah, okay, I give up: you “know” that how, exactly?&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Still waiting for an answer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris O'Neill		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467573</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2016 02:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467573</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467571&quot;&gt;Brian Dodge&lt;/a&gt;.

Dodgey: &quot;Since models overestimate the tropospheric “hotspot”, they must overestimate lapse rate feedback, which is negative, and would slow warming&quot;

Since models overestimate the magnitude of a negative feedback, correcting that overestimate would increase the climate sensitivity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467571">Brian Dodge</a>.</p>
<p>Dodgey: &#8220;Since models overestimate the tropospheric “hotspot”, they must overestimate lapse rate feedback, which is negative, and would slow warming&#8221;</p>
<p>Since models overestimate the magnitude of a negative feedback, correcting that overestimate would increase the climate sensitivity.</p>
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		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2016 20:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467571&quot;&gt;Brian Dodge&lt;/a&gt;.

Brian Dodge: &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;Dr. Christy’s Senate testimony included a graph which showed that climate models overestimate Global average mid-tropospheric temperature increases when compared to satellite observations – which proves that models underestimate climate sensitivity.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

Ah, okay, I give up: you &quot;know&quot; that how, exactly?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467571">Brian Dodge</a>.</p>
<p>Brian Dodge: <b><i>&#8220;Dr. Christy’s Senate testimony included a graph which showed that climate models overestimate Global average mid-tropospheric temperature increases when compared to satellite observations – which proves that models underestimate climate sensitivity.&#8221;</i></b></p>
<p>Ah, okay, I give up: you &#8220;know&#8221; that how, exactly?</p>
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		By: Brian Dodge		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467571</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467571</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr. Christy&#039;s Senate testimony included a graph which showed that climate models overestimate Global average mid-tropospheric temperature increases when compared to satellite observations - which proves that models underestimate climate sensitivity. 
(Since models overestimate the tropospheric &quot;hotspot&quot;, they must overestimate  lapse rate feedback, which is negative, and would slow warming)
Even Judith &quot;uncertainty monster&quot; Curry would have to thank Dr Christy for improving climate sensitivity estimates by narrowing the spread (from unreasonably low Lewisian estimates).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Christy&#8217;s Senate testimony included a graph which showed that climate models overestimate Global average mid-tropospheric temperature increases when compared to satellite observations &#8211; which proves that models underestimate climate sensitivity.<br />
(Since models overestimate the tropospheric &#8220;hotspot&#8221;, they must overestimate  lapse rate feedback, which is negative, and would slow warming)<br />
Even Judith &#8220;uncertainty monster&#8221; Curry would have to thank Dr Christy for improving climate sensitivity estimates by narrowing the spread (from unreasonably low Lewisian estimates).</p>
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		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467567&quot;&gt;Brainstorms&lt;/a&gt;.

Brainstorms: &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Desertphile, isn’t there a law against “dumping hazardous refuse in other countries”? Perhaps it’s because these things have ways of seeping across the borders later, causing additional harm to U.S. citizens.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

Canada signed on to NAFTA along with Mexico, which means USA laws about toxic waste do not apply in border towns: treaties trump national laws. We can dump Ted Cruz in Tijuana and it would be legal; it would be anti-neighborly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467567">Brainstorms</a>.</p>
<p>Brainstorms: <b><i>Desertphile, isn’t there a law against “dumping hazardous refuse in other countries”? Perhaps it’s because these things have ways of seeping across the borders later, causing additional harm to U.S. citizens.</i></b></p>
<p>Canada signed on to NAFTA along with Mexico, which means USA laws about toxic waste do not apply in border towns: treaties trump national laws. We can dump Ted Cruz in Tijuana and it would be legal; it would be anti-neighborly.</p>
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		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467569</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467569</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467568&quot;&gt;dean&lt;/a&gt;.

dean: &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;Well, since we now know that Cruz’s old man lied about his importance and how strongly he “fought” for Castro against Batista, then lied about when he came to the States (which Ted continued to do), Cruz’s lack of integrity seems to be a family tradition.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

It is spooky to see how very little it matters when politicians are constantly caught lying; there are literally no consequences---- they are still funded and supported by voters. PolitiFact and FactCheck both reported they were unable to find even one true statement by Trump in the most recent debate, and Trump still leads in most polls.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467568">dean</a>.</p>
<p>dean: <b><i>&#8220;Well, since we now know that Cruz’s old man lied about his importance and how strongly he “fought” for Castro against Batista, then lied about when he came to the States (which Ted continued to do), Cruz’s lack of integrity seems to be a family tradition.&#8221;</i></b></p>
<p>It is spooky to see how very little it matters when politicians are constantly caught lying; there are literally no consequences&#8212;- they are still funded and supported by voters. PolitiFact and FactCheck both reported they were unable to find even one true statement by Trump in the most recent debate, and Trump still leads in most polls.</p>
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		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467568</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 18:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467568</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, since we now know that Cruz&#039;s old man lied about his importance and how strongly he &quot;fought&quot; for Castro against Batista, then lied about when he came to the States (which Ted continued to do), Cruz&#039;s lack of integrity seems to be a family tradition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, since we now know that Cruz&#8217;s old man lied about his importance and how strongly he &#8220;fought&#8221; for Castro against Batista, then lied about when he came to the States (which Ted continued to do), Cruz&#8217;s lack of integrity seems to be a family tradition.</p>
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		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467567</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 17:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467567</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Desertphile, isn&#039;t there a law against &quot;dumping hazardous refuse in other countries&quot;?  Perhaps it&#039;s because these things have ways of seeping across the borders later, causing additional harm to U.S. citizens.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desertphile, isn&#8217;t there a law against &#8220;dumping hazardous refuse in other countries&#8221;?  Perhaps it&#8217;s because these things have ways of seeping across the borders later, causing additional harm to U.S. citizens.</p>
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		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467566</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2016 17:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=22006#comment-467566</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467565&quot;&gt;Brainstorms&lt;/a&gt;.

Brainstorms: &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Rather than be installed as president, Cruz should be committed to an institution and given Thorazine. For the rest of his life.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

Or just deport the bastard. I see in the news that it looks like Ted Cruz is not only a bastard---he is also a bastard. I wonder how the USA Constitution handles presidential candidates who had a non-USA mother who was not married to a USA citizen until after the candidate was born. Cruz lied about when he and his brother were born, and lied about when his parents were married--- that makes him the perfect Republican Party candidate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2016/01/08/about-that-satellite-data/#comment-467565">Brainstorms</a>.</p>
<p>Brainstorms: <b><i>Rather than be installed as president, Cruz should be committed to an institution and given Thorazine. For the rest of his life.</i></b></p>
<p>Or just deport the bastard. I see in the news that it looks like Ted Cruz is not only a bastard&#8212;he is also a bastard. I wonder how the USA Constitution handles presidential candidates who had a non-USA mother who was not married to a USA citizen until after the candidate was born. Cruz lied about when he and his brother were born, and lied about when his parents were married&#8212; that makes him the perfect Republican Party candidate.</p>
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