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	<title>
	Comments on: Which US Senators Voted Against Expanded Background Checks For Gun Purchase? UPDATED	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:41:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: dd6000		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474251</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dd6000]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2015 18:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474251</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with the general thrust of this piece, to call out all who voted against MT, a common sense change to our gun laws which will pose no serious obstacle to legal gun ownership when it passes.  

However, I disagree with the author&#039;s choice to characterize those who vote against MT as being &quot;by definition gun nuts&quot;.  This is likely true of a few, but extremely unlikely to be true of all.  I say this because opposition to any sort of gun regulation proposal, at least at the national level, is always conspicuously spearheaded by the industry lobby group the represents the interests of the manufacturers of the item in question.  And like all industry lobby groups, this one is simply doing what they were sent there to do:  whip support for any law that helps them push product, and whip opposition against any law which would hinder them to push product.  

So, while it may be satisfying to caste all lobby apologists as nutters, this ultimately hurts the cause, because as much as you&#039;d think otherwise, being labelled a gun nut is actually a politically preferable option to being labelled an industry pawn.  at least with the gun nut label, Congressional R&#039;s can count on the support of the nativist wing of their base.  And the gun lobby itself counts on this too.  So let&#039;s acknowledge this dynamic and not play into it.  Call it what it is: it&#039;s voting for the interests of an industrial lobby which produces a product whose use results in great physical harm to the American public.  A public who, by the way, agrees with the proposed new regulation by a margin of about 9 to 1.  Simply pointing out these facts deprives the industry&#039;s friends in Congress of the &quot;plausible deniability&quot; they need to continue supporting the lobby.  But calling them all gun nuts renews their lease on this excuse.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the general thrust of this piece, to call out all who voted against MT, a common sense change to our gun laws which will pose no serious obstacle to legal gun ownership when it passes.  </p>
<p>However, I disagree with the author&#8217;s choice to characterize those who vote against MT as being &#8220;by definition gun nuts&#8221;.  This is likely true of a few, but extremely unlikely to be true of all.  I say this because opposition to any sort of gun regulation proposal, at least at the national level, is always conspicuously spearheaded by the industry lobby group the represents the interests of the manufacturers of the item in question.  And like all industry lobby groups, this one is simply doing what they were sent there to do:  whip support for any law that helps them push product, and whip opposition against any law which would hinder them to push product.  </p>
<p>So, while it may be satisfying to caste all lobby apologists as nutters, this ultimately hurts the cause, because as much as you&#8217;d think otherwise, being labelled a gun nut is actually a politically preferable option to being labelled an industry pawn.  at least with the gun nut label, Congressional R&#8217;s can count on the support of the nativist wing of their base.  And the gun lobby itself counts on this too.  So let&#8217;s acknowledge this dynamic and not play into it.  Call it what it is: it&#8217;s voting for the interests of an industrial lobby which produces a product whose use results in great physical harm to the American public.  A public who, by the way, agrees with the proposed new regulation by a margin of about 9 to 1.  Simply pointing out these facts deprives the industry&#8217;s friends in Congress of the &#8220;plausible deniability&#8221; they need to continue supporting the lobby.  But calling them all gun nuts renews their lease on this excuse.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474250</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474250</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The boy has a fine future working for the NRA.&lt;/i&gt;

Shaping gun non-control policies, no doubt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The boy has a fine future working for the NRA.</i></p>
<p>Shaping gun non-control policies, no doubt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474249</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474249</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I see in the news this morning that a three-year-old shot both of his parents with a hand gun, in Albuquerque. The boy has a fine future working for the NRA.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see in the news this morning that a three-year-old shot both of his parents with a hand gun, in Albuquerque. The boy has a fine future working for the NRA.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474248</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 18:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474248</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DP, #111...I&#039;m saddened that you were injured by either negligent or criminal acts involving firearms. I can see where you&#039;re coming from and that you may not have had an opportunity to return fire (if malice was involved). You may, however, be painting with too broad a brush regarding people who wish to travel with long guns (or sidearms or both). 

I may be stupid, but I knew that you can&#039;t distinguish the law abiding from the criminal just on looks alone. I&#039;m sorry you had to learn this in such a traumatic way. &quot;You stupid shits are too fucking stupid to understand that a criminal with a gun looks exactly the same as a non-criminal with a gun; that forces us sane pro-life people to assume everyone with a gun is a threat and a danger and a criminal— we have no fucking choice in the matter.&quot;--I suppose that&#039;s how intelligent people write and reason, yes? Thanks for documenting those &quot;facts&quot;.

Yes, Bruce Willis, Mel Gibson, and many other action actors have carried my gun in action movies...and it does, indeed, warm my heart.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DP, #111&#8230;I&#8217;m saddened that you were injured by either negligent or criminal acts involving firearms. I can see where you&#8217;re coming from and that you may not have had an opportunity to return fire (if malice was involved). You may, however, be painting with too broad a brush regarding people who wish to travel with long guns (or sidearms or both). </p>
<p>I may be stupid, but I knew that you can&#8217;t distinguish the law abiding from the criminal just on looks alone. I&#8217;m sorry you had to learn this in such a traumatic way. &#8220;You stupid shits are too fucking stupid to understand that a criminal with a gun looks exactly the same as a non-criminal with a gun; that forces us sane pro-life people to assume everyone with a gun is a threat and a danger and a criminal— we have no fucking choice in the matter.&#8221;&#8211;I suppose that&#8217;s how intelligent people write and reason, yes? Thanks for documenting those &#8220;facts&#8221;.</p>
<p>Yes, Bruce Willis, Mel Gibson, and many other action actors have carried my gun in action movies&#8230;and it does, indeed, warm my heart.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474247</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474247</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474244&quot;&gt;ron&lt;/a&gt;.

ron: &lt;b&gt;&quot;The lives of children (and other innocent people) is THE REASON for armed self-defense (my “hobby”). They’re of primary importance to me.&lt;/b&gt;

Your behavior here shows the opposite.

&lt;b&gt;&quot;Why are they not to everyone?&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

Ask the NRA.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474244">ron</a>.</p>
<p>ron: <b>&#8220;The lives of children (and other innocent people) is THE REASON for armed self-defense (my “hobby”). They’re of primary importance to me.</b></p>
<p>Your behavior here shows the opposite.</p>
<p><b>&#8220;Why are they not to everyone?&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Ask the NRA.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474246</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474246</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474241&quot;&gt;Greg Laden&lt;/a&gt;.

Greg Laden: &lt;b&gt;&quot;Ron, why are children’s lives less important to you than your hobby?&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

Because freedom!

Or, in reality: because submissive, non-alpha male humans desire what they believe to be &quot;respect.&quot; See, for one example:

http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/20/2/82

Ron and his pals use firearms as mating ritual tools.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474241">Greg Laden</a>.</p>
<p>Greg Laden: <b>&#8220;Ron, why are children’s lives less important to you than your hobby?&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Because freedom!</p>
<p>Or, in reality: because submissive, non-alpha male humans desire what they believe to be &#8220;respect.&#8221; See, for one example:</p>
<p><a href="http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/20/2/82" rel="nofollow ugc">http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/20/2/82</a></p>
<p>Ron and his pals use firearms as mating ritual tools.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Desertphile		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474245</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Desertphile]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474245</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474240&quot;&gt;ron&lt;/a&gt;.

ron: &lt;b&gt;&quot;Riddle me this anti’s-- What is one to do when at the point of a criminal’s gun?&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

Er.... the first time or the second time? The first time, when I was shot in the back, I fell on my face in the hot Death Valley sand, stunned and unable to move my legs for about 30 hours. The second time, when the projectile passed so close to my right ear that the &quot;clap!&quot; of its passing damaged my ear drum, I flung down my backpack and ran, zig-zagging, into the Silurian Hills.

Why? Do you believe people have a choice in &quot;what they will do&quot; when a lunatic points a gun at them? You stupid shits, who have no fucking clue just how fucking dangerous guns are, live in a fantasy world where everyone with a gun is Bruce Willis.

Your &quot;question&quot; shows exactly how lazy your thinking is. The problem is FACING THE POINT OF A CRIMINAL&#039;S GUN, which in your tiny little brain you must dimly perceive is a problem, else you would not mention it. You stupid shits are too fucking stupid to understand that a criminal with a gun looks exactly the same as a non-criminal with a gun; that forces us sane pro-life people to assume everyone with a gun is a threat and a danger and a criminal--- we have no fucking choice in the matter.

I realize you are too dim of wit to understand any of these facts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474240">ron</a>.</p>
<p>ron: <b>&#8220;Riddle me this anti’s&#8211; What is one to do when at the point of a criminal’s gun?&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Er&#8230;. the first time or the second time? The first time, when I was shot in the back, I fell on my face in the hot Death Valley sand, stunned and unable to move my legs for about 30 hours. The second time, when the projectile passed so close to my right ear that the &#8220;clap!&#8221; of its passing damaged my ear drum, I flung down my backpack and ran, zig-zagging, into the Silurian Hills.</p>
<p>Why? Do you believe people have a choice in &#8220;what they will do&#8221; when a lunatic points a gun at them? You stupid shits, who have no fucking clue just how fucking dangerous guns are, live in a fantasy world where everyone with a gun is Bruce Willis.</p>
<p>Your &#8220;question&#8221; shows exactly how lazy your thinking is. The problem is FACING THE POINT OF A CRIMINAL&#8217;S GUN, which in your tiny little brain you must dimly perceive is a problem, else you would not mention it. You stupid shits are too fucking stupid to understand that a criminal with a gun looks exactly the same as a non-criminal with a gun; that forces us sane pro-life people to assume everyone with a gun is a threat and a danger and a criminal&#8212; we have no fucking choice in the matter.</p>
<p>I realize you are too dim of wit to understand any of these facts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474244</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 14:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474244</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[#107 &quot;Ron, why are children’s lives less important to you than your hobby?&quot;

The lives of children (and other innocent people) is THE REASON for armed self-defense (my &quot;hobby&quot;). They&#039;re of primary importance to me.

Why are they not to everyone?

(Thanks for asking...and I haven&#039;t figured out how to do the move in #85 to keep everyone safe)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#107 &#8220;Ron, why are children’s lives less important to you than your hobby?&#8221;</p>
<p>The lives of children (and other innocent people) is THE REASON for armed self-defense (my &#8220;hobby&#8221;). They&#8217;re of primary importance to me.</p>
<p>Why are they not to everyone?</p>
<p>(Thanks for asking&#8230;and I haven&#8217;t figured out how to do the move in #85 to keep everyone safe)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474243</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 14:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474243</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Facts never get in the way of the agendas of the pro-deathers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facts never get in the way of the agendas of the pro-deathers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/12/03/which-us-senators-voted-against-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-purchase/#comment-474242</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2015 14:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21923#comment-474242</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ron, it isn&#039;t just a &quot;consideration&quot; that people with guns stopping crime is a rarity, it&#039;s a fact - one of those things you don&#039;t like.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ron, it isn&#8217;t just a &#8220;consideration&#8221; that people with guns stopping crime is a rarity, it&#8217;s a fact &#8211; one of those things you don&#8217;t like.</p>
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