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	<title>
	Comments on: Arctic Sea Ice in 2015	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Brian Dodge		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[psd
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4nh/from:1980/mean:12/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:1980.6/offset:-9.85/mean:12/scale:0.4/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:2006/offset:-9.85/scale:0.4/trend/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/to:2006/offset:-9.86/scale:0.4/trend

the sea ice exent data are noisy.
the sea ice trend since 2006 is greater than the trend before 2006.
the sea ice trend for summer minimum, when the albedo feedback which increases global warming is greatest, is larger than the winter trend.
the sea ice trend is much larger than models predicted - http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b017d3da64b2b970c-pi 
If models are underestimating melt, why are denialists so confident that the uncertainty in model sensitivity means that the temperature increase will be smaller than projected?

Either Steve Goddard doesn&#039;t know the difference between signal and (cherrypicked) noise, or he&#039;s hoping you don&#039;t know the difference - but now you do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>psd<br />
<a href="http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4nh/from:1980/mean:12/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:1980.6/offset:-9.85/mean:12/scale:0.4/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:2006/offset:-9.85/scale:0.4/trend/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/to:2006/offset:-9.86/scale:0.4/trend" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4nh/from:1980/mean:12/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:1980.6/offset:-9.85/mean:12/scale:0.4/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/from:2006/offset:-9.85/scale:0.4/trend/plot/nsidc-seaice-n/to:2006/offset:-9.86/scale:0.4/trend</a></p>
<p>the sea ice exent data are noisy.<br />
the sea ice trend since 2006 is greater than the trend before 2006.<br />
the sea ice trend for summer minimum, when the albedo feedback which increases global warming is greatest, is larger than the winter trend.<br />
the sea ice trend is much larger than models predicted &#8211; <a href="http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b017d3da64b2b970c-pi" rel="nofollow ugc">http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b017d3da64b2b970c-pi</a><br />
If models are underestimating melt, why are denialists so confident that the uncertainty in model sensitivity means that the temperature increase will be smaller than projected?</p>
<p>Either Steve Goddard doesn&#8217;t know the difference between signal and (cherrypicked) noise, or he&#8217;s hoping you don&#8217;t know the difference &#8211; but now you do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Susan Anderson		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[psd, unfortunately, we are accustomed to the varying attacks from the spectrum you are trying to represent and sometimes it is hard to keep patience with this nonsense.  For example, the McKibben-Watts meeting turns out to have been polite only on the surface, since McKibben felt ambushed when he made the effort to show goodwill under false premises.

I treasure Goddard giving me my 15 minutes of fame for suggesting my old friend now deceased, Richard Feynman, would make very short work of the misrepresentations of his structures on truth and science appropriated by unskeptical climate &quot;skeptics&quot;.  Their assumption that I could not have known him (Cambridge, Thinking Machines, MIT,  about 1985, association through drawing group) allows them to mount a cackle of insults, which would be funny if you all didn&#039;t take it seriously.  They also think Galileo and Einstein would side with them.

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/feynman-channels-his-thoughts-on-global-warming-through-susan-anderson/

You can see why people lose patience with the ongoing reassertion of false information.  If you think these comments are rude, check the comments there.  The term CAGW, for example, comes entirely from the denialosphere, and &quot;settled science&quot; is pretty much from there as well.  So is the idea that global warming and climate change were separated for effect (well, there was an effort, but it came from Republican strategist Frank Luntz), but in fact warming has to do with increased heat trapping and results in disrupted circulation and more energy in the system, climate change.  We have to use words, which are imperfect.

In any case, starting the melt record at 2005 is mildly dishonest.  In the climate record, you want to go back as far as you can, not truncate for effect.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>psd, unfortunately, we are accustomed to the varying attacks from the spectrum you are trying to represent and sometimes it is hard to keep patience with this nonsense.  For example, the McKibben-Watts meeting turns out to have been polite only on the surface, since McKibben felt ambushed when he made the effort to show goodwill under false premises.</p>
<p>I treasure Goddard giving me my 15 minutes of fame for suggesting my old friend now deceased, Richard Feynman, would make very short work of the misrepresentations of his structures on truth and science appropriated by unskeptical climate &#8220;skeptics&#8221;.  Their assumption that I could not have known him (Cambridge, Thinking Machines, MIT,  about 1985, association through drawing group) allows them to mount a cackle of insults, which would be funny if you all didn&#8217;t take it seriously.  They also think Galileo and Einstein would side with them.</p>
<p><a href="https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/feynman-channels-his-thoughts-on-global-warming-through-susan-anderson/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/feynman-channels-his-thoughts-on-global-warming-through-susan-anderson/</a></p>
<p>You can see why people lose patience with the ongoing reassertion of false information.  If you think these comments are rude, check the comments there.  The term CAGW, for example, comes entirely from the denialosphere, and &#8220;settled science&#8221; is pretty much from there as well.  So is the idea that global warming and climate change were separated for effect (well, there was an effort, but it came from Republican strategist Frank Luntz), but in fact warming has to do with increased heat trapping and results in disrupted circulation and more energy in the system, climate change.  We have to use words, which are imperfect.</p>
<p>In any case, starting the melt record at 2005 is mildly dishonest.  In the climate record, you want to go back as far as you can, not truncate for effect.</p>
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		<title>
		By: corey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472920</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[corey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 13:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472920</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[(It&#039;s a confusing thread, what with Magma/Marco and SteveP/StevoR and a misinformer-cum-concern troll. I, for one, appreciate the clarification.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(It&#8217;s a confusing thread, what with Magma/Marco and SteveP/StevoR and a misinformer-cum-concern troll. I, for one, appreciate the clarification.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevoR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472919</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevoR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 06:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472919</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[D&#039;oh! My comment #9 here was in response to #7 magma of course. Not my thread here, sigh.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D&#8217;oh! My comment #9 here was in response to #7 magma of course. Not my thread here, sigh.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dhogaza		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dhogaza]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2015 03:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not to mention that Heller/Goddard insists that it snows solid CO2 in Antarctica.

PSD: if you want to learn climate science, study climate science.  There are online courses available for free from a couple of different universities.  Since you&#039;ve got a BS from UEA and &quot;aren&#039;t stupid&quot; I don&#039;t think you&#039;d have any problem taking the courses.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention that Heller/Goddard insists that it snows solid CO2 in Antarctica.</p>
<p>PSD: if you want to learn climate science, study climate science.  There are online courses available for free from a couple of different universities.  Since you&#8217;ve got a BS from UEA and &#8220;aren&#8217;t stupid&#8221; I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;d have any problem taking the courses.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Marco		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472917</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2015 16:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472917</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[psd, apart from the odd description of UEA as &quot;the leading promulgator of AGW&quot;, could you explain to us why you select the website of a known incompetent climate commenter (Goddard, real name Heller) for your news?

I mean, it isn&#039;t even true what he claims:
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php
Both 2013 and 2014 were higher.
Then again:
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php
Of course Goddard immediately jumped on this...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>psd, apart from the odd description of UEA as &#8220;the leading promulgator of AGW&#8221;, could you explain to us why you select the website of a known incompetent climate commenter (Goddard, real name Heller) for your news?</p>
<p>I mean, it isn&#8217;t even true what he claims:<br />
<a href="http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php" rel="nofollow ugc">http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php</a><br />
Both 2013 and 2014 were higher.<br />
Then again:<br />
<a href="http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php" rel="nofollow ugc">http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php</a><br />
Of course Goddard immediately jumped on this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: corey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472916</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[corey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472916</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I’m deeply interested and concerned. I really do want to find the truth.&quot;

I propose that you are grappling with acceptance of the consensus position because of your political ideology. Hint: Watts and Heller aren&#039;t going to help you come to terms with the overwhelming evidence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m deeply interested and concerned. I really do want to find the truth.&#8221;</p>
<p>I propose that you are grappling with acceptance of the consensus position because of your political ideology. Hint: Watts and Heller aren&#8217;t going to help you come to terms with the overwhelming evidence.</p>
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		<title>
		By: corey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472915</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[corey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472915</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[(Recall that the McKibben social took place shortly after Anthony tossed-off that accusatory email to Dr. Tom Peterson about Karl(2015), causing even Revkin to blush. There&#039;s bound to be a moral there.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Recall that the McKibben social took place shortly after Anthony tossed-off that accusatory email to Dr. Tom Peterson about Karl(2015), causing even Revkin to blush. There&#8217;s bound to be a moral there.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: psd		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472914</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[psd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2015 01:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472914</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472913&quot;&gt;StevoR&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks
If Anthony Watts and Bil McGibbon can have a congenial face-to-face conversation (as they recently did) then I guess anyone can .... all of us should be able to at least communicate decently online.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472913">StevoR</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks<br />
If Anthony Watts and Bil McGibbon can have a congenial face-to-face conversation (as they recently did) then I guess anyone can &#8230;. all of us should be able to at least communicate decently online.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevoR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/10/05/arctic-sea-ice-in-2015/#comment-472913</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevoR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2015 01:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21630#comment-472913</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[^ Okay. Fair enough.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^ Okay. Fair enough.</p>
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