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	Comments on: Catastrophic Sea Level Rise: More and sooner	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
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		<title>
		By: First Known Climate Change Extinction &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471030</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[First Known Climate Change Extinction &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471030</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] some version or another of this story will be happening for the next several centuries or so, as sea levels begin once again to rise rapidly, because we are polluting the [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] some version or another of this story will be happening for the next several centuries or so, as sea levels begin once again to rise rapidly, because we are polluting the [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Global Warming Over The Next Decade: Candidates take note. &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471029</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Global Warming Over The Next Decade: Candidates take note. &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2016 17:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471029</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] level rise has already had several negative effects, but it is also is a longer term issue, and is perhaps among the most serious consequences of human greenhouse gas pollution. At some [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] level rise has already had several negative effects, but it is also is a longer term issue, and is perhaps among the most serious consequences of human greenhouse gas pollution. At some [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave X		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471028</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave X]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2015 16:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471028</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It isn&#039;t that Hansen et al. are predicting exponential sea level rise at ~5 years/doubling out to 2100, it is that they are using an exponential melt model for the first 1m of sea level rise as an input for the model.  Figure 8 clips the melt volume to 1 (or 5) meters and uses that to get bounds on the fluxes over the next 40-100 years.  

Clipping the melt volume at 1 meter worth of SLR, and using exponential curves to back-load the melt on the end of the melting period seem like reasonably conservative flux models.

With the flux cutoff at 1m of SLR, Hansen&#039;s model is not melting more ice than can be melted in the next 100 years, but it is well within that Rahmstorff limit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t that Hansen et al. are predicting exponential sea level rise at ~5 years/doubling out to 2100, it is that they are using an exponential melt model for the first 1m of sea level rise as an input for the model.  Figure 8 clips the melt volume to 1 (or 5) meters and uses that to get bounds on the fluxes over the next 40-100 years.  </p>
<p>Clipping the melt volume at 1 meter worth of SLR, and using exponential curves to back-load the melt on the end of the melting period seem like reasonably conservative flux models.</p>
<p>With the flux cutoff at 1m of SLR, Hansen&#8217;s model is not melting more ice than can be melted in the next 100 years, but it is well within that Rahmstorff limit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bernard J.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bernard J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2015 03:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[...scientifically-unsupported and scientifically incorrect statements about science...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;scientifically-unsupported and scientifically incorrect statements about science&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bernard J.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471026</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bernard J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2015 03:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471026</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave Andrews, it’s been a few years since I’ve seen you around the traps spruiking scientifically-unsupported statements and scientifically incorrect about science.  As others have observed above, those few years haven’t seen you garner anything remotely resembling an understanding of science: you’ve simply accumulated more of your Dunningly-Krugered denialism.

You see, the world&#039;s best and brightest scientists disagree with you.  Contrary to you staement that &quot;the science is not settled&quot; the experts have no doubt that it is.  Take Nathan Bindoff for example, a well-known and highly competent lead author for many of the assessment reports.  He says at 1:05:00-1:05:30 &lt;a href=&quot;http://livestream.com/UniversityofTasmania/events/4121684/videos/90528875&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;…the science of climate change is unequivocal – the Earth &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; warming.  If you go and think back to the 1950s actually we can formally demonstrate that &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of the changes observed since the 1950s can be attributed to human activity - &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; of the changes, not some fraction… all of it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Who should I believe - a noted expert in the discipline, or an uncredentialled nobody on the internet who is partial to logical fallacy and ideological denialism?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Andrews, it’s been a few years since I’ve seen you around the traps spruiking scientifically-unsupported statements and scientifically incorrect about science.  As others have observed above, those few years haven’t seen you garner anything remotely resembling an understanding of science: you’ve simply accumulated more of your Dunningly-Krugered denialism.</p>
<p>You see, the world&#8217;s best and brightest scientists disagree with you.  Contrary to you staement that &#8220;the science is not settled&#8221; the experts have no doubt that it is.  Take Nathan Bindoff for example, a well-known and highly competent lead author for many of the assessment reports.  He says at 1:05:00-1:05:30 <a href="http://livestream.com/UniversityofTasmania/events/4121684/videos/90528875" rel="nofollow">here</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>…the science of climate change is unequivocal – the Earth <i>is</i> warming.  If you go and think back to the 1950s actually we can formally demonstrate that <i>all</i> of the changes observed since the 1950s can be attributed to human activity &#8211; <i><b>all</b></i> of the changes, not some fraction… all of it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Who should I believe &#8211; a noted expert in the discipline, or an uncredentialled nobody on the internet who is partial to logical fallacy and ideological denialism?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Everett		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471025</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Everett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2015 21:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471025</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Regarding consequences of stratification mentioned in #40 above, the comment by Timothy Chase on Tamino&#039;s blog post is relevant: https://tamino.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/hansen-et-al/#comment-89860]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding consequences of stratification mentioned in #40 above, the comment by Timothy Chase on Tamino&#8217;s blog post is relevant: <a href="https://tamino.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/hansen-et-al/#comment-89860" rel="nofollow ugc">https://tamino.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/hansen-et-al/#comment-89860</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Everett		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471024</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Everett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2015 21:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471024</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471023&quot;&gt;Greg Laden&lt;/a&gt;.

No. I have heard and read about the Bay of Fundy, of course. But on such a crucial question as whether the sea is rising (lowering) or the land is moving up and down, I was careful to restrict my testimony to a case with which I had extensive personal experience. No hearsay evidence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471023">Greg Laden</a>.</p>
<p>No. I have heard and read about the Bay of Fundy, of course. But on such a crucial question as whether the sea is rising (lowering) or the land is moving up and down, I was careful to restrict my testimony to a case with which I had extensive personal experience. No hearsay evidence.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471023</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2015 16:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471023</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Have you been to the Bay of Fundy?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you been to the Bay of Fundy?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill Everett		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471022</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Everett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2015 20:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471022</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471021&quot;&gt;Greg Laden&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;... their assumption that land could go up and down easily while the sea never moved. their assumption that land could go up and down easily while the sea never moved.&quot;

Greg, in my experience, this is not just an assumption, but literally true. I lived for many years where the land bounced up and as much as 30 feet with a period of about 12 hours. See http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaatidepredictions/NOAATidesFacade.jsp?Stationid=9455920 for a graph of currently land-bouncing there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471021">Greg Laden</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; their assumption that land could go up and down easily while the sea never moved. their assumption that land could go up and down easily while the sea never moved.&#8221;</p>
<p>Greg, in my experience, this is not just an assumption, but literally true. I lived for many years where the land bounced up and as much as 30 feet with a period of about 12 hours. See <a href="http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaatidepredictions/NOAATidesFacade.jsp?Stationid=9455920" rel="nofollow ugc">http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaatidepredictions/NOAATidesFacade.jsp?Stationid=9455920</a> for a graph of currently land-bouncing there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/27/catastrophic-sea-level-rise/#comment-471021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21354#comment-471021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Is anyone (other than you) suggesting that isostatic rebound during the Eemian contributed significantly to this? Because I can’t find any studies that support this view.
&quot;

When I learned about Eemian high strand lines it was commonly assumed that these were due to continental buoyancy (which is not exactly the same as isostatic rebound).  I don&#039;t know what the textbooks were saying but the people with whom I was working who were studying high strand lines in North and South Africa were thinking this.  

I suspect this was a widely held assumption that had to do with our general inability as humans to grasp vertical changes in land or sea other than simple mountain building, especially the sea. 

Maybe this goes back to when we first evolved as tiny microbes in the sea ( :) ), but historically people looking at major patterns in geology have gravitated towards the sea level simply never changing and all the other stuff that happens is the land going up and down. Darwin and his contemporaries (and Darwin was one of the first scientists to study this issue) made a lot of mistakes in figuring out the past because of their assumption that land could go up and down easily while the sea never moved.  

In Africa it made sense because Africa does seem to be a somewhat &quot;buoyant&quot; continent. All the edges are up.  This, though, probably has more to do with the position of Africa in one or more earlier super-continents (and subsequent rifting) than any actual innate buoyancy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is anyone (other than you) suggesting that isostatic rebound during the Eemian contributed significantly to this? Because I can’t find any studies that support this view.<br />
&#8221;</p>
<p>When I learned about Eemian high strand lines it was commonly assumed that these were due to continental buoyancy (which is not exactly the same as isostatic rebound).  I don&#8217;t know what the textbooks were saying but the people with whom I was working who were studying high strand lines in North and South Africa were thinking this.  </p>
<p>I suspect this was a widely held assumption that had to do with our general inability as humans to grasp vertical changes in land or sea other than simple mountain building, especially the sea. </p>
<p>Maybe this goes back to when we first evolved as tiny microbes in the sea ( 🙂 ), but historically people looking at major patterns in geology have gravitated towards the sea level simply never changing and all the other stuff that happens is the land going up and down. Darwin and his contemporaries (and Darwin was one of the first scientists to study this issue) made a lot of mistakes in figuring out the past because of their assumption that land could go up and down easily while the sea never moved.  </p>
<p>In Africa it made sense because Africa does seem to be a somewhat &#8220;buoyant&#8221; continent. All the edges are up.  This, though, probably has more to do with the position of Africa in one or more earlier super-continents (and subsequent rifting) than any actual innate buoyancy.</p>
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