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	Comments on: How Many People Were Slaves In The North vs. The South?	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Albert Bryan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470903</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Albert Bryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470903</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To further broaden the discussion one should include the facts of how the slaves got to the US in the first place and from what region were the Slaving ships owned.  In addition, what flag flew over those ships.  Hint:  They werent from the South and it wasnt a Confederate flag.  We know the ships and what families owned them.  Finally, what percentage of Confederates were fighting to keep slaves.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To further broaden the discussion one should include the facts of how the slaves got to the US in the first place and from what region were the Slaving ships owned.  In addition, what flag flew over those ships.  Hint:  They werent from the South and it wasnt a Confederate flag.  We know the ships and what families owned them.  Finally, what percentage of Confederates were fighting to keep slaves.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jessica		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470902</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jessica]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2015 00:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470902</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Who cares? People from other countries hate America, so who cares about a civil war happening where it shouldn&#039;t have happen in the first place. You know a place that European colonies slaughter millions to live on and OWNED land that shouldn&#039;t have been fought over, but instead shared.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who cares? People from other countries hate America, so who cares about a civil war happening where it shouldn&#8217;t have happen in the first place. You know a place that European colonies slaughter millions to live on and OWNED land that shouldn&#8217;t have been fought over, but instead shared.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470901</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470901</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How?  Because the Supreme Court of the United States affirmed that they had no such right.  (See https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/ for your edification.)

This makes flying or displaying the Confederate flag equal to flying or displaying the Nazi flag: Both are flags represent (human rights-violating) entities that took up arms against the United States in acts of war.  Shameful (regardless of how jazzed your are over the childish excitement of rebellious behavior).

That those who made up the Confederate States formed and pledged allegiance to &quot;a  government hostile to the United States, and in affiliation with a hostile confederation, waging war upon the United States,&quot; yet were still American citizens, makes them traitorous in having done so.

Q.E.D.  You may now take down and burn your Stars &#038; Bars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How?  Because the Supreme Court of the United States affirmed that they had no such right.  (See <a href="https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/</a> for your edification.)</p>
<p>This makes flying or displaying the Confederate flag equal to flying or displaying the Nazi flag: Both are flags represent (human rights-violating) entities that took up arms against the United States in acts of war.  Shameful (regardless of how jazzed your are over the childish excitement of rebellious behavior).</p>
<p>That those who made up the Confederate States formed and pledged allegiance to &#8220;a  government hostile to the United States, and in affiliation with a hostile confederation, waging war upon the United States,&#8221; yet were still American citizens, makes them traitorous in having done so.</p>
<p>Q.E.D.  You may now take down and burn your Stars &amp; Bars.</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1972patriot		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1972patriot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2015 20:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Brainstorm says, &quot;In 1861, they did at least realize that they would need to secede from the U.S. to remain consistent — an act of treason, making them traitors&quot;

Please explain how the South did not have the right at the time to secede, therefore, making the action treasonous.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brainstorm says, &#8220;In 1861, they did at least realize that they would need to secede from the U.S. to remain consistent — an act of treason, making them traitors&#8221;</p>
<p>Please explain how the South did not have the right at the time to secede, therefore, making the action treasonous.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Calli Arcale		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Calli Arcale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[zebra:
&quot;It is important to remember that the real issue for the South was devaluation of their capital, not the potential loss of productivity from the slaves. Not the case for indentured workers.&quot;

This is a very important observation, and it reminds me of the release not too long ago of some of Thomas Jefferson&#039;s private correspondance, in particular a letter he wrote to George Washington.  This letter so horrified Washington that he was inspired to free the handful of slaves he owned; basically, Jefferson had realized how profitable his slaves were, not merely in terms of their productivity but in &quot;their increase&quot; (his words).

The divide between North and South over slavery goes back much further than the Civil War, and indeed, the profit of selling the children of one&#039;s slaves was a very big deal in the south.

Of course, although Minnesota quite explicitly fought *against* the Confederacy, making it particularly odious and historically ignorant to fly that flag in a Minnesota parade, it cannot be said that our state had no part in the sad legacy of slavery.  Visit Fort Snelling, which presently is restored and maintained to its frontier condition, and today you can visit the tiny basement dwelling where Dred Scott lived for a little while.  Yes, *that* Dred Scott.  Slavery was illegal here even then, but nobody protested his owners importing him and his wife and renting them out for a profit, even though they were being held on government property.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zebra:<br />
&#8220;It is important to remember that the real issue for the South was devaluation of their capital, not the potential loss of productivity from the slaves. Not the case for indentured workers.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a very important observation, and it reminds me of the release not too long ago of some of Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s private correspondance, in particular a letter he wrote to George Washington.  This letter so horrified Washington that he was inspired to free the handful of slaves he owned; basically, Jefferson had realized how profitable his slaves were, not merely in terms of their productivity but in &#8220;their increase&#8221; (his words).</p>
<p>The divide between North and South over slavery goes back much further than the Civil War, and indeed, the profit of selling the children of one&#8217;s slaves was a very big deal in the south.</p>
<p>Of course, although Minnesota quite explicitly fought *against* the Confederacy, making it particularly odious and historically ignorant to fly that flag in a Minnesota parade, it cannot be said that our state had no part in the sad legacy of slavery.  Visit Fort Snelling, which presently is restored and maintained to its frontier condition, and today you can visit the tiny basement dwelling where Dred Scott lived for a little while.  Yes, *that* Dred Scott.  Slavery was illegal here even then, but nobody protested his owners importing him and his wife and renting them out for a profit, even though they were being held on government property.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Donal		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Director&#039;s comments seem to derive from Mann&#039;s book 1493, which drew from from Crosby&#039;s Economic Imperialism.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/books/review/1493-uncovering-the-new-world-columbus-created-by-charles-c-mann-book-review.html
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/nov/04/1493-americas-charles-mann-review]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Director&#8217;s comments seem to derive from Mann&#8217;s book 1493, which drew from from Crosby&#8217;s Economic Imperialism.<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/books/review/1493-uncovering-the-new-world-columbus-created-by-charles-c-mann-book-review.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/books/review/1493-uncovering-the-new-world-columbus-created-by-charles-c-mann-book-review.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/nov/04/1493-americas-charles-mann-review" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/nov/04/1493-americas-charles-mann-review</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2015 12:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s also amazing how racists believe any personal obeservation they make no matter how worthless, constitutes science.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s also amazing how racists believe any personal obeservation they make no matter how worthless, constitutes science.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Director		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470896</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Director]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2015 03:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve never owned slaves.  What self justification would I be engaging in? Where did point out any inferiority? My point was a scientific based observation that the Mason-Dixon Line follows the contour of the northern limit of Vivax Malaria. Above the line European strains of malaria were manifest, below that line Vivax, essentially an African malaria dominated. It killed whites em masse leaving blacks alive. Gradually that means black populations (well adapted to the disease) would thrive, even if oppressed by slavery the numbers jumped from 500,000 imported to around 4,000,000 by the 1860s.  That&#039;s a thriving population by any standard. 

Slavery is a feature of world history going back to the first farmers. It only ended because of automation and industrialization.  It&#039;s not a moral question in that broader cultural context. 

Do your commenters have any sense of economic history?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never owned slaves.  What self justification would I be engaging in? Where did point out any inferiority? My point was a scientific based observation that the Mason-Dixon Line follows the contour of the northern limit of Vivax Malaria. Above the line European strains of malaria were manifest, below that line Vivax, essentially an African malaria dominated. It killed whites em masse leaving blacks alive. Gradually that means black populations (well adapted to the disease) would thrive, even if oppressed by slavery the numbers jumped from 500,000 imported to around 4,000,000 by the 1860s.  That&#8217;s a thriving population by any standard. </p>
<p>Slavery is a feature of world history going back to the first farmers. It only ended because of automation and industrialization.  It&#8217;s not a moral question in that broader cultural context. </p>
<p>Do your commenters have any sense of economic history?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470895</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2015 17:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470895</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Someone from the Wichita area who uses the nym &quot;Director&quot;? That&#039;s suggestive &#8212; but not enough so that I&#039;m willing to complete the thought.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone from the Wichita area who uses the nym &#8220;Director&#8221;? That&#8217;s suggestive &mdash; but not enough so that I&#8217;m willing to complete the thought.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2015/07/05/how-many-people-were-slaves-in-the-north-vs-the-south/#comment-470894</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2015 02:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=21314#comment-470894</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Greg. I&#039;m not sure how you tolerate folks like them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Greg. I&#8217;m not sure how you tolerate folks like them.</p>
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