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	Comments on: Democratic Loss in the Senate Was Not Exceptional or Unexpected	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:46:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The still make the same error everyone else is doing:

&quot;But the shock was mainly caused because, purely and simply, the polls were wrong across the board. They overestimated Democratic turnout by almost twice as much as they underestimated it in 2012. (Midterm elections are notoriously hard to poll.) In fact the turnout this year—just 36.6 percent of eligible voters—was the lowest since 1942, when many Americans went off to war. David Wasserman of The Cook Political Report termed it an “epic turnout collapse.” The Democrats’ much-vaunted turnout operation worked extremely well in 2008 and 2012, when there was an appealing, to millions even exciting, candidate at the head of the ticket. An unpopular president cannot work the same magic.&quot;

Inappropriate comparison between presidential year and midterm, and getting Obama&#039;s popularity rating wrong.  His was average low for year six.

What is different this year is Congress&#039; rating, lower than any congress ever for the last few years.  Not sure if that accounts for the turnout, but it is real, as opposed to shit people make up to account for it.

This however is very true and I think the main problem:

&quot;Nor did the Democrats have a persuasive message to sell. They had no message at all. They feared any association with Obama, which included mentioning his achievements, and they worried that any boasting about the improvement in the economy since he took office would make them appear out of touch, since the recovery’s positive effects have done little to improve the situation of much of the middle class. The unwillingness to tout the benefits of the Affordable Care Act despite its clear success was a major missed opportunity: exit polls showed that people listed health care as the second reason they voted for a Democratic candidate.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The still make the same error everyone else is doing:</p>
<p>&#8220;But the shock was mainly caused because, purely and simply, the polls were wrong across the board. They overestimated Democratic turnout by almost twice as much as they underestimated it in 2012. (Midterm elections are notoriously hard to poll.) In fact the turnout this year—just 36.6 percent of eligible voters—was the lowest since 1942, when many Americans went off to war. David Wasserman of The Cook Political Report termed it an “epic turnout collapse.” The Democrats’ much-vaunted turnout operation worked extremely well in 2008 and 2012, when there was an appealing, to millions even exciting, candidate at the head of the ticket. An unpopular president cannot work the same magic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Inappropriate comparison between presidential year and midterm, and getting Obama&#8217;s popularity rating wrong.  His was average low for year six.</p>
<p>What is different this year is Congress&#8217; rating, lower than any congress ever for the last few years.  Not sure if that accounts for the turnout, but it is real, as opposed to shit people make up to account for it.</p>
<p>This however is very true and I think the main problem:</p>
<p>&#8220;Nor did the Democrats have a persuasive message to sell. They had no message at all. They feared any association with Obama, which included mentioning his achievements, and they worried that any boasting about the improvement in the economy since he took office would make them appear out of touch, since the recovery’s positive effects have done little to improve the situation of much of the middle class. The unwillingness to tout the benefits of the Affordable Care Act despite its clear success was a major missed opportunity: exit polls showed that people listed health care as the second reason they voted for a Democratic candidate.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: GregH		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484335</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GregH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484335</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s another perspective on this.  I was glad to read Greg L&#039;s reasoning about the statistical tendencies - that makes sense, and it&#039;s an important point to keep in mind.  As an outsider though, I see the outcome of this election as quite depressing.  And I&#039;m not alone:
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/nov/08/midterms-why-republicans-won/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another perspective on this.  I was glad to read Greg L&#8217;s reasoning about the statistical tendencies &#8211; that makes sense, and it&#8217;s an important point to keep in mind.  As an outsider though, I see the outcome of this election as quite depressing.  And I&#8217;m not alone:<br />
<a href="http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/nov/08/midterms-why-republicans-won/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/nov/08/midterms-why-republicans-won/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, and it was the lowest turnout since the invention of nuclear power and television.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and it was the lowest turnout since the invention of nuclear power and television.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Phil		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484333</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[First point, the spectacularly low turnout was a sign of Democratic apathy.
Second, the passage of many liberal bills shows the public holds liberal positions.
Third the defeat of Dems who ran away from the positions their party supports shows the obvious...
If you are a Dem who ran as a Republican you lose. Dems desert you and Republicans were never going to vote for you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First point, the spectacularly low turnout was a sign of Democratic apathy.<br />
Second, the passage of many liberal bills shows the public holds liberal positions.<br />
Third the defeat of Dems who ran away from the positions their party supports shows the obvious&#8230;<br />
If you are a Dem who ran as a Republican you lose. Dems desert you and Republicans were never going to vote for you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484332</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My understanding is that the amount spent was actually on the low side in a lot of races.

The point, though, is that a loss for both houses is totally predictable based on the available information. There is an important difference, though, between predictable and inevitable.

This is not a self fulfilling prophecy.  It is simply a statement about  how these things work, what the conditions are out of the starting gate.  This is the stream up which one must swim.

The reason for discussing this now is to counter the incorrect statements being made in the press that the losses were unprecedented and huge.  If they are pretty much as expected then they can be neither.

Also, it can&#039;t be a self fulfilling prophecy if it is being made after the fact!

&quot;... the stupefying timidity on the part of Dem candidates...&quot; That is exactly the problem.  And, some voter apathy issues.  And the funding problem. But yes, this is it.

Nothing I&#039;ve said in either post is unknown to Democratic strategists, by the way, so your point is very valid; they took an expected loss with a duck and cover rather than a fight.  And that is very annoying, unless there is an argument that I&#039;m missing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that the amount spent was actually on the low side in a lot of races.</p>
<p>The point, though, is that a loss for both houses is totally predictable based on the available information. There is an important difference, though, between predictable and inevitable.</p>
<p>This is not a self fulfilling prophecy.  It is simply a statement about  how these things work, what the conditions are out of the starting gate.  This is the stream up which one must swim.</p>
<p>The reason for discussing this now is to counter the incorrect statements being made in the press that the losses were unprecedented and huge.  If they are pretty much as expected then they can be neither.</p>
<p>Also, it can&#8217;t be a self fulfilling prophecy if it is being made after the fact!</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; the stupefying timidity on the part of Dem candidates&#8230;&#8221; That is exactly the problem.  And, some voter apathy issues.  And the funding problem. But yes, this is it.</p>
<p>Nothing I&#8217;ve said in either post is unknown to Democratic strategists, by the way, so your point is very valid; they took an expected loss with a duck and cover rather than a fight.  And that is very annoying, unless there is an argument that I&#8217;m missing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BobFromLI		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BobFromLI]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ripley, I do wonder about the funding thing. It appears from some news stories that the amount spent was unprecedented. I&#039;ve not seen breakdowns that are meaningful.

I disagree with the notion that the loss could have been predicted...unless one factors in the &quot;I give up&quot; status of nearly every Dem comment on the subject. They were bracing to lose this time and, for the House, last time out. I don&#039;t understand the value of publicizing a self-fulfilling negative prophesy. The masses tend to want to &quot;win with a winner&quot; and the best way to do that is to tell them in advance who that winner ought to be. Voila!

Add to that the stupefying timidity on the part of Dem candidates and you have what we&#039;ll have. Casey Stengel (or was it a Cubs fan) who said said it...&quot;Wait &#039;til next year!&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ripley, I do wonder about the funding thing. It appears from some news stories that the amount spent was unprecedented. I&#8217;ve not seen breakdowns that are meaningful.</p>
<p>I disagree with the notion that the loss could have been predicted&#8230;unless one factors in the &#8220;I give up&#8221; status of nearly every Dem comment on the subject. They were bracing to lose this time and, for the House, last time out. I don&#8217;t understand the value of publicizing a self-fulfilling negative prophesy. The masses tend to want to &#8220;win with a winner&#8221; and the best way to do that is to tell them in advance who that winner ought to be. Voila!</p>
<p>Add to that the stupefying timidity on the part of Dem candidates and you have what we&#8217;ll have. Casey Stengel (or was it a Cubs fan) who said said it&#8230;&#8221;Wait &#8217;til next year!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: GregH		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484330</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GregH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484330</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;This was not an historic loss.&lt;/i&gt;

Unless you&#039;re a large media organization trying to maximize the horserace aspect of elections.  And/Or someone with a hand in the $3.67B election spending pie.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This was not an historic loss.</i></p>
<p>Unless you&#8217;re a large media organization trying to maximize the horserace aspect of elections.  And/Or someone with a hand in the $3.67B election spending pie.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ripley		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484329</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ripley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484329</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Without all the graphic chart business, it was predicted almost a year ago.  No real funding went down to the regional races.  Go ask people around southern states about the normal candidate literature that they&#039;d get in any year (mid-term, presidential), and they&#039;d all say that 2014 was an odd year because you got marginal mailings.  Other than a Sheriff here, and a county commissioner there....Democratic funding just didn&#039;t ever come and result in information campaigns. Various failed campaign efforts have commented on this, and it&#039;s obvious that it was a known fact....and they simply didn&#039;t want to waste funding on failed elections.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without all the graphic chart business, it was predicted almost a year ago.  No real funding went down to the regional races.  Go ask people around southern states about the normal candidate literature that they&#8217;d get in any year (mid-term, presidential), and they&#8217;d all say that 2014 was an odd year because you got marginal mailings.  Other than a Sheriff here, and a county commissioner there&#8230;.Democratic funding just didn&#8217;t ever come and result in information campaigns. Various failed campaign efforts have commented on this, and it&#8217;s obvious that it was a known fact&#8230;.and they simply didn&#8217;t want to waste funding on failed elections.</p>
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		<title>
		By: President Obama Scores Victory in US House 2014 Election &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/11/09/democratic-loss-in-the-senate-was-not-exceptional-or-unexpected/#comment-484328</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[President Obama Scores Victory in US House 2014 Election &#8211; Greg Laden&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2014 03:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20608#comment-484328</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] What about the Senate? See this.  [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] What about the Senate? See this.  [&#8230;]</p>
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