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	<title>
	Comments on: Antarctic Sea Ice and Global Warming	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Tim		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We might be talking about a boiling hot magma spewing, newly awakend volcano here and not just a couple hundred milliwatts/m^2 of &#039;thin lithosphere&#039;  --These articles seem to hint at that:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Inevitable eruption will speed up ice loss on frozen continent, study says.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
As you have suggested, Greg Laden, further researching it would seem to be prudent..
&lt;blockquote&gt;Most of the seismometers used to discover the volcano have been removed and installed in other areas in Antarctica, so further study of its seismic activity is no longer possible.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/131118-antarctica-volcano-earthquakes-erupt-sea-level-rise-science/
&lt;blockquote&gt;“The volcano will create millions of gallons of water beneath the ice – many lakes full. This water will rush beneath the ice towards the sea and feed into the hydrological catchment of the MacAyeal Ice Stream,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/geophysics/science-active-volcano-west-antarctica-01555.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We might be talking about a boiling hot magma spewing, newly awakend volcano here and not just a couple hundred milliwatts/m^2 of &#8216;thin lithosphere&#8217;  &#8211;These articles seem to hint at that:</p>
<blockquote><p>Inevitable eruption will speed up ice loss on frozen continent, study says.</p></blockquote>
<p>As you have suggested, Greg Laden, further researching it would seem to be prudent..</p>
<blockquote><p>Most of the seismometers used to discover the volcano have been removed and installed in other areas in Antarctica, so further study of its seismic activity is no longer possible.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/131118-antarctica-volcano-earthquakes-erupt-sea-level-rise-science/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/131118-antarctica-volcano-earthquakes-erupt-sea-level-rise-science/</a></p>
<blockquote><p>“The volcano will create millions of gallons of water beneath the ice – many lakes full. This water will rush beneath the ice towards the sea and feed into the hydrological catchment of the MacAyeal Ice Stream,</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/geophysics/science-active-volcano-west-antarctica-01555.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/geophysics/science-active-volcano-west-antarctica-01555.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Brainstorms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainstorms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 19:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg: &quot;Sealion&quot;.

All along he&#039;s been very cleverly wasting your time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: &#8220;Sealion&#8221;.</p>
<p>All along he&#8217;s been very cleverly wasting your time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483820&quot;&gt;GY&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;And what we’d expect if geothermal activity under the ice were increasing.&quot;

But it isn&#039;t, and that link does not make that claim.  Please avoid mischaracterizing evidence on this blog in the future.  You&#039;ve been doing that a lot and I am becoming annoyed.

&quot;he surface area of sea ice recovered to some extent there was wailing and gnashing of teeth because that ice wasn’t thick multi year ice.&quot;  There was no recovery.  There is simply an expected amount of inter annual variability. This will be true of both sea ice extent and thickness.

&quot;I had suspected long ago that geothermal activity, along with increased solar activity played a part in warming of ocean waters and melting of ice.&quot;

There has been a decrease in solar activity, so, no.

This Gish Gallop of yours is getting Tiresome, GY.  No more.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483820">GY</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;And what we’d expect if geothermal activity under the ice were increasing.&#8221;</p>
<p>But it isn&#8217;t, and that link does not make that claim.  Please avoid mischaracterizing evidence on this blog in the future.  You&#8217;ve been doing that a lot and I am becoming annoyed.</p>
<p>&#8220;he surface area of sea ice recovered to some extent there was wailing and gnashing of teeth because that ice wasn’t thick multi year ice.&#8221;  There was no recovery.  There is simply an expected amount of inter annual variability. This will be true of both sea ice extent and thickness.</p>
<p>&#8220;I had suspected long ago that geothermal activity, along with increased solar activity played a part in warming of ocean waters and melting of ice.&#8221;</p>
<p>There has been a decrease in solar activity, so, no.</p>
<p>This Gish Gallop of yours is getting Tiresome, GY.  No more.</p>
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		<title>
		By: GY		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Greenland glaciers and Antarctic glaciers are melting at an increased rate. All of this is what we expect with global warming.&quot;
And what we&#039;d expect if geothermal activity under the ice were increasing.

http://www.iceagenow.com/Geothermal_heat_may_be_melting_Greenland_glaciers.htm

&quot;The Greenland ice sheet is melting from below, caused by a high heat flow from the mantle into the lithosphere. This influence is very variable spatially and has its origin in an exceptionally thin lithosphere. Consequently, there is an increased heat flow from the mantle and a complex interplay between this geothermal heating and the Greenland ice sheet. The international research initiative IceGeoHeat led by the GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences establishes in the current online issue of Nature Geoscience (Vol 6, August 11, 2013) that this effect cannot be neglected when modeling the ice sheet as part of a climate study.

 Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-08-earth-mantle-contributes-greenland-ice.html#jCp&quot;

As for the thicker arctic sea ice, not so long ago when the surface area of sea ice recovered to some extent there was wailing and gnashing of teeth because that ice wasn&#039;t thick multi year ice.
Now the ice is thicker multi year ice and in greater volume than in the previous five years so its somehow no longer important.

I had suspected long ago that geothermal activity, along with increased solar activity played a part in warming of ocean waters and melting of ice. Now it looks like I had good reason to believe that.

The breech in the Magnetosphere may also play a part. Not sure exactly how, but that&#039;s a mighty powerful force to simply ignore.

As for all this being unstoppable well that&#039;s been mother natures way of doing things all along. No one can stop a glacier from doing anything. All we can do is observe.

I suppose we could encourage a nuclear exchange between Russia and Red China, that would put a end to rice paddy methane production in China and much of Asia, destroy all heavy industry in eastern Europe, and give us a few years of nuclear winter to off set the present warming trend.
The soft glow from the glassed over craters where major cities once stood might reflect off the clouds of ash and reduce the need for streetlights in the remaining cities.
Drifting ash clouds would end commercial aviation, so that would greatly reduce use of petroleum based jet fuels.
Population would drop dramatically, and fewer viable pregnancies along with mostly sterile offspring would keep population down for centuries.
Hey, win-win all around.
Save the planet-kill the people. Just like the 50-60&#039;s sci fi movies where nukes could solve every problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Greenland glaciers and Antarctic glaciers are melting at an increased rate. All of this is what we expect with global warming.&#8221;<br />
And what we&#8217;d expect if geothermal activity under the ice were increasing.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.iceagenow.com/Geothermal_heat_may_be_melting_Greenland_glaciers.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.iceagenow.com/Geothermal_heat_may_be_melting_Greenland_glaciers.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The Greenland ice sheet is melting from below, caused by a high heat flow from the mantle into the lithosphere. This influence is very variable spatially and has its origin in an exceptionally thin lithosphere. Consequently, there is an increased heat flow from the mantle and a complex interplay between this geothermal heating and the Greenland ice sheet. The international research initiative IceGeoHeat led by the GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences establishes in the current online issue of Nature Geoscience (Vol 6, August 11, 2013) that this effect cannot be neglected when modeling the ice sheet as part of a climate study.</p>
<p> Read more at: <a href="http://phys.org/news/2013-08-earth-mantle-contributes-greenland-ice.html#jCp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://phys.org/news/2013-08-earth-mantle-contributes-greenland-ice.html#jCp</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>As for the thicker arctic sea ice, not so long ago when the surface area of sea ice recovered to some extent there was wailing and gnashing of teeth because that ice wasn&#8217;t thick multi year ice.<br />
Now the ice is thicker multi year ice and in greater volume than in the previous five years so its somehow no longer important.</p>
<p>I had suspected long ago that geothermal activity, along with increased solar activity played a part in warming of ocean waters and melting of ice. Now it looks like I had good reason to believe that.</p>
<p>The breech in the Magnetosphere may also play a part. Not sure exactly how, but that&#8217;s a mighty powerful force to simply ignore.</p>
<p>As for all this being unstoppable well that&#8217;s been mother natures way of doing things all along. No one can stop a glacier from doing anything. All we can do is observe.</p>
<p>I suppose we could encourage a nuclear exchange between Russia and Red China, that would put a end to rice paddy methane production in China and much of Asia, destroy all heavy industry in eastern Europe, and give us a few years of nuclear winter to off set the present warming trend.<br />
The soft glow from the glassed over craters where major cities once stood might reflect off the clouds of ash and reduce the need for streetlights in the remaining cities.<br />
Drifting ash clouds would end commercial aviation, so that would greatly reduce use of petroleum based jet fuels.<br />
Population would drop dramatically, and fewer viable pregnancies along with mostly sterile offspring would keep population down for centuries.<br />
Hey, win-win all around.<br />
Save the planet-kill the people. Just like the 50-60&#8217;s sci fi movies where nukes could solve every problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483819</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483819</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483818&quot;&gt;Tim&lt;/a&gt;.

Tim, yes, there are volcanoes on pretty much every continent!!!  There are hot spots and volcanoes under the Antarctic Ice.  The same source you site also notes &quot;West Antarctica is also hemorrhaging ice due to climate change, and recent studies have suggested there is no way to reverse the retreat of West Antarctic glaciers.&quot;

It is hard to say how important the volcanoes are.  My understanding is that more research is needed. But the rate of melting of these glaciers is linked primarily to human induced global warming.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483818">Tim</a>.</p>
<p>Tim, yes, there are volcanoes on pretty much every continent!!!  There are hot spots and volcanoes under the Antarctic Ice.  The same source you site also notes &#8220;West Antarctica is also hemorrhaging ice due to climate change, and recent studies have suggested there is no way to reverse the retreat of West Antarctic glaciers.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is hard to say how important the volcanoes are.  My understanding is that more research is needed. But the rate of melting of these glaciers is linked primarily to human induced global warming.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tim		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483818</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483818</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t suppose active volcanoes under the ice lubricating the glaciers and sliding the shelf faster out to sea would have much to do with anything?
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;It&#039;s not just the fact that there is melting water, and that water is coming out,&quot; Schroeder told Live Science. &quot;It&#039;s how that affects the flow and stability of the ice.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
http://www.livescience.com/46194-volcanoes-melt-antarctic-glaciers.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t suppose active volcanoes under the ice lubricating the glaciers and sliding the shelf faster out to sea would have much to do with anything?</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;It&#8217;s not just the fact that there is melting water, and that water is coming out,&#8221; Schroeder told Live Science. &#8220;It&#8217;s how that affects the flow and stability of the ice.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.livescience.com/46194-volcanoes-melt-antarctic-glaciers.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.livescience.com/46194-volcanoes-melt-antarctic-glaciers.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483817</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483817</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483814&quot;&gt;GY&lt;/a&gt;.

Again, both of these are expected. We expect something like Arctic ice volume or surface area to vary from year to year, up and down, with a general downward trend until that shift to a &quot;new normal&quot; is complete.  We expect Antarctic ice to be more common if there is a change in the availability of fresh water to enhance freezing, which there is. Meanwhile, Greenland glaciers and Antarctic glaciers are melting at an increased rate.  All of this is what we expect with global warming.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483814">GY</a>.</p>
<p>Again, both of these are expected. We expect something like Arctic ice volume or surface area to vary from year to year, up and down, with a general downward trend until that shift to a &#8220;new normal&#8221; is complete.  We expect Antarctic ice to be more common if there is a change in the availability of fresh water to enhance freezing, which there is. Meanwhile, Greenland glaciers and Antarctic glaciers are melting at an increased rate.  All of this is what we expect with global warming.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483816</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483816</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483815&quot;&gt;GY&lt;/a&gt;.

GY: Why would the ice shrink every year because of global warming? That is not at all what is expected.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483815">GY</a>.</p>
<p>GY: Why would the ice shrink every year because of global warming? That is not at all what is expected.</p>
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		<title>
		By: GY		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483815</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483815</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Antarctic sea ice also much thicker than expected.
http://www.livescience.com/48880-antarctica-sea-ice-thickness-mapped.html

&quot;According to climate models, the region&#039;s sea ice should be shrinking each year because of global warming. Instead, satellite observations show the ice is expanding, and the continent&#039;s sea ice has set new records for the past three winters. At the same time, Antarctica&#039;s ice sheet (the glacial ice on land) is melting and retreating.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antarctic sea ice also much thicker than expected.<br />
<a href="http://www.livescience.com/48880-antarctica-sea-ice-thickness-mapped.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.livescience.com/48880-antarctica-sea-ice-thickness-mapped.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;According to climate models, the region&#8217;s sea ice should be shrinking each year because of global warming. Instead, satellite observations show the ice is expanding, and the continent&#8217;s sea ice has set new records for the past three winters. At the same time, Antarctica&#8217;s ice sheet (the glacial ice on land) is melting and retreating.&#8221;</p>
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		By: GY		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/10/09/antarctic-sea-ice-and-global-warming/#comment-483814</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20481#comment-483814</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Arctic ice volume increase?
More multiyear ice.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.alaskapublic.org/2013/12/27/arctic-sea-ice-volume-up-50-percent/&#038;sa=U&#038;ei=t5fPVLfeLMWpNpLvgegE&#038;ved=0CBIQFjAG&#038;client=internal-uds-cse&#038;usg=AFQjCNGwPfLB0qpMVdv1wnwiBwZMbtSwgQ

&quot;Arctic sea ice volumes in the autumn of 2014 are above the average set over the last five years and sharply up on the lows seen in 2011 and 2012, according to the latest satellite data. &quot;
http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/arctic-sea-ice-more-resilient-than-thought.html

&quot;This is the second year in a row where a relatively cool Arctic summer has led to less sea ice melting than has been typical during the summers of recent years and this has resulted in thicker and older ice surviving into the autumn and winter during both 2013 and 2014. &quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arctic ice volume increase?<br />
More multiyear ice.<br />
<a href="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.alaskapublic.org/2013/12/27/arctic-sea-ice-volume-up-50-percent/&#038;sa=U&#038;ei=t5fPVLfeLMWpNpLvgegE&#038;ved=0CBIQFjAG&#038;client=internal-uds-cse&#038;usg=AFQjCNGwPfLB0qpMVdv1wnwiBwZMbtSwgQ" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.alaskapublic.org/2013/12/27/arctic-sea-ice-volume-up-50-percent/&#038;sa=U&#038;ei=t5fPVLfeLMWpNpLvgegE&#038;ved=0CBIQFjAG&#038;client=internal-uds-cse&#038;usg=AFQjCNGwPfLB0qpMVdv1wnwiBwZMbtSwgQ</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Arctic sea ice volumes in the autumn of 2014 are above the average set over the last five years and sharply up on the lows seen in 2011 and 2012, according to the latest satellite data. &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/arctic-sea-ice-more-resilient-than-thought.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/arctic-sea-ice-more-resilient-than-thought.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;This is the second year in a row where a relatively cool Arctic summer has led to less sea ice melting than has been typical during the summers of recent years and this has resulted in thicker and older ice surviving into the autumn and winter during both 2013 and 2014. &#8220;</p>
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