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	Comments on: Anthony Watts Starts Up Cloud Based Anti-Science Organization	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482207</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2016 01:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482207</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482206&quot;&gt;Wharfplank&lt;/a&gt;.

socio-economic site? is that a new dogwhistle?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482206">Wharfplank</a>.</p>
<p>socio-economic site? is that a new dogwhistle?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wharfplank		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482206</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wharfplank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2016 20:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482206</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My, this socio-economic site is clearly mis-labeled...probably read by the same folks who think &quot;An Inconvenient Truth&quot; belongs in the science section of a public library. Authored by the man who thinks the center of planet Earth is millions of degrees. Sheesh.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My, this socio-economic site is clearly mis-labeled&#8230;probably read by the same folks who think &#8220;An Inconvenient Truth&#8221; belongs in the science section of a public library. Authored by the man who thinks the center of planet Earth is millions of degrees. Sheesh.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Science&#039;s best friends - Ocasapiens - Blog - Repubblica.it		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482205</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Science&#039;s best friends - Ocasapiens - Blog - Repubblica.it]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482205</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Watts e altri crackpots cari agli alt.uff. Guidi e Giuliacci si sono finalmente fatti una &#034;charity&#034;/rivista &#034;scientifica&#034; e l&#039;hanno chiamata OAS, stessa sigla di una rivista [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Watts e altri crackpots cari agli alt.uff. Guidi e Giuliacci si sono finalmente fatti una &quot;charity&quot;/rivista &quot;scientifica&quot; e l&#039;hanno chiamata OAS, stessa sigla di una rivista [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: johnrussell40		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482204</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnrussell40]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 17:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482204</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Mollie #42

My heart sank as I saw your references to known &#039;sky-dragon slayers&#039;. The people you choose to follow are conspiracy theorists. See http://www.desmogblog.com/john-o-sullivan and http://www.desmogblog.com/climate-science-by-letter-in-not-science

Not only that, but the grandiose-sounding &#039;Principia Scientific International&#039; is a front run by John O&#039;Sullivan to publish hard core climate denial; so hardcore that even most fake sceptics think it&#039;s run by nutters. Even Lord Monckton described O&#039;Sullivan as “confused and scientifically illiterate”. For once I find myself agreeing with him. Don&#039;t you? http://www.desmogblog.com/principia-scientific-international

Last, I&#039;m guessing you publish links to NASA to somehow legitimise your comment. Here&#039;s what NASA really says about CO2: http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mollie #42</p>
<p>My heart sank as I saw your references to known &#8216;sky-dragon slayers&#8217;. The people you choose to follow are conspiracy theorists. See <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/john-o-sullivan" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.desmogblog.com/john-o-sullivan</a> and <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/climate-science-by-letter-in-not-science" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.desmogblog.com/climate-science-by-letter-in-not-science</a></p>
<p>Not only that, but the grandiose-sounding &#8216;Principia Scientific International&#8217; is a front run by John O&#8217;Sullivan to publish hard core climate denial; so hardcore that even most fake sceptics think it&#8217;s run by nutters. Even Lord Monckton described O&#8217;Sullivan as “confused and scientifically illiterate”. For once I find myself agreeing with him. Don&#8217;t you? <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/principia-scientific-international" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.desmogblog.com/principia-scientific-international</a></p>
<p>Last, I&#8217;m guessing you publish links to NASA to somehow legitimise your comment. Here&#8217;s what NASA really says about CO2: <a href="http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Mollie Norris		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482203</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mollie Norris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482203</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[johnrussell40: The consensus is .5% of scientists, 65 scientists. There definitely is a consensus of ignorance about Cook&#039;s survey among AGW-alarmists. The first thing he did was throw out the 2/3 of abstracts he found in his search using &#039;global warming&#039; and &#039;climate change&#039; because they din&#039;t mention AGW. Then he threw out the 17% of that 2/3 who mentioned AGW but didn&#039;t support it. Then he threw out the abstracts that authors said were misclassified. Read it.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article
You wanna buy a bridge?
NASA showed that CO2 reflects radiation and cools the earth almost 2 years ago. The 31,400 scientists who signed the Oregon petition project petition are smart enough to know a scam when they see one.

NASA Study Proves Carbon Dioxide Cools
 H. Schreuder  &#038; J. O&#039;Sullivan Atmosphere Principia Scientific International ^  March 26, 2013
NASA&#039;s Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun.CO2 and NO are natural thermostats,&quot; says James Russell from Hampton University, who was one of the lead investigators for the groundbreaking SABER study. &quot;When the upper atmosphere (or &#039;thermosphere&#039;) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>johnrussell40: The consensus is .5% of scientists, 65 scientists. There definitely is a consensus of ignorance about Cook&#8217;s survey among AGW-alarmists. The first thing he did was throw out the 2/3 of abstracts he found in his search using &#8216;global warming&#8217; and &#8216;climate change&#8217; because they din&#8217;t mention AGW. Then he threw out the 17% of that 2/3 who mentioned AGW but didn&#8217;t support it. Then he threw out the abstracts that authors said were misclassified. Read it.<br />
<a href="http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article" rel="nofollow ugc">http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article</a><br />
You wanna buy a bridge?<br />
NASA showed that CO2 reflects radiation and cools the earth almost 2 years ago. The 31,400 scientists who signed the Oregon petition project petition are smart enough to know a scam when they see one.</p>
<p>NASA Study Proves Carbon Dioxide Cools<br />
 H. Schreuder  &amp; J. O&#8217;Sullivan Atmosphere Principia Scientific International ^  March 26, 2013<br />
NASA&#8217;s Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun.CO2 and NO are natural thermostats,&#8221; says James Russell from Hampton University, who was one of the lead investigators for the groundbreaking SABER study. &#8220;When the upper atmosphere (or &#8216;thermosphere&#8217;) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.<br />
<a href="http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/</a>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Craig Thomas		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482202</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2014 02:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482202</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John left out an important subgroup:

 - among those people who accept money from a lobbygroup whose purpose it is to oppose the dissemination of knowledge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John left out an important subgroup:</p>
<p> &#8211; among those people who accept money from a lobbygroup whose purpose it is to oppose the dissemination of knowledge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Mashey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482201</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2014 05:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482201</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let us compare consensus in two different areas:
1) the climate one
2) the medical one that nicotine is addictive and smoking causes diseases

Which of these is a stronger consensus
-among researchers who actually do the work?
-among the general public?
-among legislators?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us compare consensus in two different areas:<br />
1) the climate one<br />
2) the medical one that nicotine is addictive and smoking causes diseases</p>
<p>Which of these is a stronger consensus<br />
-among researchers who actually do the work?<br />
-among the general public?<br />
-among legislators?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482200</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482200</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[100% means certainly, 0% means certainly not, and the in-between numbers are in-between.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100% means certainly, 0% means certainly not, and the in-between numbers are in-between.</p>
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		<title>
		By: st		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482199</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[st]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482199</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482198&quot;&gt;cosmicomics&lt;/a&gt;.

Please define &quot;level of confidence&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482198">cosmicomics</a>.</p>
<p>Please define &#8220;level of confidence&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: cosmicomics		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/09/17/the-open-atmospheric-society/#comment-482198</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cosmicomics]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=20353#comment-482198</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The following comment was written by Andrew Lohmann and appeared in Climate Science Watch. I&#039;m quoting it in its entirety, because it&#039;s one of the most eloquent and intelligent statements on scientific consensus I&#039;ve seen.

“Andrew Lohmann says:
January 27, 2013 at 6:16 pm
I&#039;d like to step back just a second and address the nature of science in general.
When we are capable of conducting experiments, then we don&#039;t really have to be concerned (as much) about &quot;scientific consensus.&quot; We have experimental data to support our conclusions.
However, there are vast swaths of scientific investigation that do not lend themselves to experimental testing. We cannot experiment on volcanic activity or climate change. Another example is our capacity to experiment on human behavior, which is quite restricted (and thankfully so).
To search for truth under these circumstances, we rely on inferential statistics. We collect data and then infer the likelihood of whether anything we find was &quot;real&quot; or an artifact of chance. The point here is that no single study, no single aspect of research is by itself completely reliable. There is a margin or potential error. The real strength of the findings comes about through replication of the research using new data, and replication of the findings using different observational approaches.
Here&#039;s the key: Any individual program of research will have weaknesses. But, when taken collectively -- the aggregate research, by multiple scientists looking at the same question from multiple angles -- those weaknesses are diminished, since other individual research projects won&#039;t have replicated those weaknesses.
So, ultimately, to say we should ignore &quot;consensus&quot; is to say we should ignore the science. When a whole lot of research, all using different methods, point in the same direction (the results converge to the same conclusion), the proper response is to ask &quot;what is the likelihood of all these results not being real, given the weight of the evidence.&quot;
That said, there will never be a 100% level of confidence. What I would love is for skeptics to tell us what level of confidence they require before they accept the consensus. How I would love for just one reporter to ask Mr. Inhofe (or any other denialist) &quot;Please, what level of evidence would you accept as substantial enough that human caused climate change is real?&quot; Without this last question answered, then there is no role for science on the denialist side.”
http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2013/01/25/in-wall-street-journal-op-ed-bjorn-lomborg-urges-delay-with-misleading-stats/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following comment was written by Andrew Lohmann and appeared in Climate Science Watch. I&#8217;m quoting it in its entirety, because it&#8217;s one of the most eloquent and intelligent statements on scientific consensus I&#8217;ve seen.</p>
<p>“Andrew Lohmann says:<br />
January 27, 2013 at 6:16 pm<br />
I&#8217;d like to step back just a second and address the nature of science in general.<br />
When we are capable of conducting experiments, then we don&#8217;t really have to be concerned (as much) about &#8220;scientific consensus.&#8221; We have experimental data to support our conclusions.<br />
However, there are vast swaths of scientific investigation that do not lend themselves to experimental testing. We cannot experiment on volcanic activity or climate change. Another example is our capacity to experiment on human behavior, which is quite restricted (and thankfully so).<br />
To search for truth under these circumstances, we rely on inferential statistics. We collect data and then infer the likelihood of whether anything we find was &#8220;real&#8221; or an artifact of chance. The point here is that no single study, no single aspect of research is by itself completely reliable. There is a margin or potential error. The real strength of the findings comes about through replication of the research using new data, and replication of the findings using different observational approaches.<br />
Here&#8217;s the key: Any individual program of research will have weaknesses. But, when taken collectively &#8212; the aggregate research, by multiple scientists looking at the same question from multiple angles &#8212; those weaknesses are diminished, since other individual research projects won&#8217;t have replicated those weaknesses.<br />
So, ultimately, to say we should ignore &#8220;consensus&#8221; is to say we should ignore the science. When a whole lot of research, all using different methods, point in the same direction (the results converge to the same conclusion), the proper response is to ask &#8220;what is the likelihood of all these results not being real, given the weight of the evidence.&#8221;<br />
That said, there will never be a 100% level of confidence. What I would love is for skeptics to tell us what level of confidence they require before they accept the consensus. How I would love for just one reporter to ask Mr. Inhofe (or any other denialist) &#8220;Please, what level of evidence would you accept as substantial enough that human caused climate change is real?&#8221; Without this last question answered, then there is no role for science on the denialist side.”<br />
<a href="http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2013/01/25/in-wall-street-journal-op-ed-bjorn-lomborg-urges-delay-with-misleading-stats/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2013/01/25/in-wall-street-journal-op-ed-bjorn-lomborg-urges-delay-with-misleading-stats/</a></p>
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