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	Comments on: European Big Brain Project Draws Ire From European Brain Science Community	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 14:29:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481033</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 14:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481033</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Neural_Net_CPU]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Neural_Net_CPU" rel="nofollow ugc">http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Neural_Net_CPU</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481032</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 14:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481032</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So where &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; the picture you used come from? It &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; be Beverly Crusher examining the Prytt &quot;psi-wave&quot; device removed from her and Picard, but I failed to find it under that search either.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So where <b><i>did</i></b> the picture you used come from? It <i>could</i> be Beverly Crusher examining the Prytt &#8220;psi-wave&#8221; device removed from her and Picard, but I failed to find it under that search either.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dunc		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481031</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dunc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 09:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481031</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;On the other hand I suppose you could replicate a brain neuron for neuron, connection by connection but can we do that for non trivial examples and what would doing so teach us?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not entirely sure we can really even replicate a neuron. And even if we can, we don&#039;t have anything like the technology needed to map a brain at that level of detail. It would be like trying to build a replica of a city down to the contents of every room in every building, but with only fuzzy satellite imagery to go on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>On the other hand I suppose you could replicate a brain neuron for neuron, connection by connection but can we do that for non trivial examples and what would doing so teach us?</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure we can really even replicate a neuron. And even if we can, we don&#8217;t have anything like the technology needed to map a brain at that level of detail. It would be like trying to build a replica of a city down to the contents of every room in every building, but with only fuzzy satellite imagery to go on.</p>
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		<title>
		By: G		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481030</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 05:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481030</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Never mind a whole brain, we don&#039;t even know how individual neurons work yet, and there is good reason to believe they may be orders of magnitude more complex than we have assumed.

Stubborn attempts to build super-AIs despite serious issues ranging from basic science to social ethics and civic impacts, very often point in the direction of The Singularity as a motivating factor.  This is the belief that when a super-AI is achieved, it will solve all of humanity&#039;s problems and also make it possible for individuals to &quot;upload&quot; their minds to the machine and thereby achieve immortality.

I suspect there&#039;s an element of that in the mix here.

Strictly speaking, it&#039;s a new religion, complete with a deity (the super-AI) and a hereafter (immortality via reincarnation into silicon).  When put forward as &quot;science&quot; it&#039;s straight-up pseudoscience, like faith healing wrapped up in technology to make it look scientific.  See also the hiring of Ray Kurzweil by Google, with a blank check to develop a God-machine.

A quick Ixquick search of &quot;Markram + Singularity&quot; turns up items on Singularityhub.com and Singularityweblog.com, I won&#039;t bother pasting in the URLs here because they&#039;ll just cause this comment to get stuck in a queue.

How it is that Markram manages to get into a position of directing a gazillion-dollar project, particularly after the Recursive Fury fiasco and other instances of less-than-stellar judgement, is beyond me.

Or perhaps the desire for silicon immortality is more pervasive than any of us realized.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind a whole brain, we don&#8217;t even know how individual neurons work yet, and there is good reason to believe they may be orders of magnitude more complex than we have assumed.</p>
<p>Stubborn attempts to build super-AIs despite serious issues ranging from basic science to social ethics and civic impacts, very often point in the direction of The Singularity as a motivating factor.  This is the belief that when a super-AI is achieved, it will solve all of humanity&#8217;s problems and also make it possible for individuals to &#8220;upload&#8221; their minds to the machine and thereby achieve immortality.</p>
<p>I suspect there&#8217;s an element of that in the mix here.</p>
<p>Strictly speaking, it&#8217;s a new religion, complete with a deity (the super-AI) and a hereafter (immortality via reincarnation into silicon).  When put forward as &#8220;science&#8221; it&#8217;s straight-up pseudoscience, like faith healing wrapped up in technology to make it look scientific.  See also the hiring of Ray Kurzweil by Google, with a blank check to develop a God-machine.</p>
<p>A quick Ixquick search of &#8220;Markram + Singularity&#8221; turns up items on Singularityhub.com and Singularityweblog.com, I won&#8217;t bother pasting in the URLs here because they&#8217;ll just cause this comment to get stuck in a queue.</p>
<p>How it is that Markram manages to get into a position of directing a gazillion-dollar project, particularly after the Recursive Fury fiasco and other instances of less-than-stellar judgement, is beyond me.</p>
<p>Or perhaps the desire for silicon immortality is more pervasive than any of us realized.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481029</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 01:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481029</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ROFLMAO]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ROFLMAO</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sou		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481028</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sou]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481028</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What happens when young Henry succeeds and the brain doesn&#039;t want to be prodded and poked and zapped with electrons for all the world to see? Does he have all the ethics approvals and informed consent from this brain-to-be?

(I hope he doesn&#039;t try to publish at Frontiers without it. The Editor in Chief would have a fit.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens when young Henry succeeds and the brain doesn&#8217;t want to be prodded and poked and zapped with electrons for all the world to see? Does he have all the ethics approvals and informed consent from this brain-to-be?</p>
<p>(I hope he doesn&#8217;t try to publish at Frontiers without it. The Editor in Chief would have a fit.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Christopher, yes, that would have been good! I avoid using comics where I don&#039;t have permission, tho.

The image is from here: http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Neural_Net_CPU]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher, yes, that would have been good! I avoid using comics where I don&#8217;t have permission, tho.</p>
<p>The image is from here: <a href="http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Neural_Net_CPU" rel="nofollow ugc">http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Neural_Net_CPU</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481026</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481026</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK, I&#039;m curious: What does this image have to do with the Human Brain Project? After Googling, I failed to find it or anything remotely like it.

You might have picked, for example, the image found here:

http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/10/07/human-brain-project-kicks/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;m curious: What does this image have to do with the Human Brain Project? After Googling, I failed to find it or anything remotely like it.</p>
<p>You might have picked, for example, the image found here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/10/07/human-brain-project-kicks/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/10/07/human-brain-project-kicks/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: David Whitlock		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481025</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Whitlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481025</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The neuroscientists are correct.  It is way premature to try and engineer an emulation of the human brain.  All it would do is waste a lot of money, waste a lot of senior researcher&#039;s talent, and funnel money into big hardware.

In some ways it is like other Big Science projects and big social projects.

The human genome project; where are the cures for all those diseases we were promised?

The war on drugs; why are illegal drugs still a problem?

The war on cancer; why isn&#039;t cancer &quot;cured&quot; yet?

This isn&#039;t being suggested because the majority of neuroscientists think it is the correct next step in neuroscience research.  (sort of the way that the LHC was the correct next step that the physics community decided on).  It is being suggested because those suggesting it see ways to leverage a big project like this into more $$$ and kudos for themselves, whether the project succeeds or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The neuroscientists are correct.  It is way premature to try and engineer an emulation of the human brain.  All it would do is waste a lot of money, waste a lot of senior researcher&#8217;s talent, and funnel money into big hardware.</p>
<p>In some ways it is like other Big Science projects and big social projects.</p>
<p>The human genome project; where are the cures for all those diseases we were promised?</p>
<p>The war on drugs; why are illegal drugs still a problem?</p>
<p>The war on cancer; why isn&#8217;t cancer &#8220;cured&#8221; yet?</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t being suggested because the majority of neuroscientists think it is the correct next step in neuroscience research.  (sort of the way that the LHC was the correct next step that the physics community decided on).  It is being suggested because those suggesting it see ways to leverage a big project like this into more $$$ and kudos for themselves, whether the project succeeds or not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/07/14/european-big-brain-project-draws-ire-from-european-brain-science-community/#comment-481024</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19951#comment-481024</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Richard Nixon, the EuroBrain Computer, a Catholic priest and a hippie were riding in a small airplane when the landing gear fell off...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Nixon, the EuroBrain Computer, a Catholic priest and a hippie were riding in a small airplane when the landing gear fell off&#8230;</p>
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