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	Comments on: Fisking Henry Markram&#039;s Comment About &#034;Recursive Fury&#034; and the Frontiers Retraction	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:32:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479761</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479761</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[f: Ha.  Eric is not even a little bit of a Moron.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>f: Ha.  Eric is not even a little bit of a Moron.</p>
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		<title>
		By: f		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479760</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[f]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 13:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479760</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot; It’s rare to find anything close to this degree of unanimity on a cutting-edge topic.&quot;

It&#039;s all in your mind.
Moron.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; It’s rare to find anything close to this degree of unanimity on a cutting-edge topic.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all in your mind.<br />
Moron.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479759</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2014 17:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479759</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479758&quot;&gt;corrector&lt;/a&gt;.

NO, actually.  Depending on which year you pick to start a period, you get various different results.  Climate science denialists such as your self pick a year that make it work for them, but that is not how science works.

Also, &quot;corrector,&quot; we know that way over 90% of the total added heat goes into the ocean, that heat is not counted in the &quot;surface temperature,&quot; and it has been increasing in recent years.

So no, not right. Wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479758">corrector</a>.</p>
<p>NO, actually.  Depending on which year you pick to start a period, you get various different results.  Climate science denialists such as your self pick a year that make it work for them, but that is not how science works.</p>
<p>Also, &#8220;corrector,&#8221; we know that way over 90% of the total added heat goes into the ocean, that heat is not counted in the &#8220;surface temperature,&#8221; and it has been increasing in recent years.</p>
<p>So no, not right. Wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: corrector		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479758</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[corrector]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2014 17:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479758</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Temp paused for how many years?

17, right?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Temp paused for how many years?</p>
<p>17, right?</p>
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		<title>
		By: G		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, you&#039;re right of course, and I&#039;m with you on that.

I missed the implications of Markram&#039;s comments &quot;Why debate X?  Why not debate Y and do Z instead?  Why not do something else?&quot;, those implications being &quot;you should not conduct research X, you should conduct research Y and Z.&quot;

Though, his tone in his blog entry comes off as anxious; one can almost hear him asking &quot;why oh why did this happen to me?&quot;  I&#039;m inclined to think there&#039;s something else going on that he isn&#039;t talking about, and the likely candidate is some type of credible threat: of violence, of lawsuits, of funding cuts, or possibly a threat to &quot;dox&quot; him (release his &quot;documents&quot; i.e. private information:  &quot;see, now you agree with us, don&#039;t you?&quot;).  Or I&#039;m misreading him (again) and his tone is more accurately characterized as defiant?

In any case, we&#039;re at war for the future of humanity, so what we need in this battle is a conclusive victory such as the reinstatement of the paper along with an apology, plus or minus Markram finding other employment.

In the end, the denialists themselves are merely pawns and shills, whose purpose is to distract our attention and waste our time.  The real target, the root cause and core of the entire issue, is the financial value of undeveloped fossil fuel assets worldwide.  The necessary goal is to develop, apply, and succeed at a well-founded and realistic strategy to keep those assets in the ground, permanently or until there is truly viable carbon-capture technology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, you&#8217;re right of course, and I&#8217;m with you on that.</p>
<p>I missed the implications of Markram&#8217;s comments &#8220;Why debate X?  Why not debate Y and do Z instead?  Why not do something else?&#8221;, those implications being &#8220;you should not conduct research X, you should conduct research Y and Z.&#8221;</p>
<p>Though, his tone in his blog entry comes off as anxious; one can almost hear him asking &#8220;why oh why did this happen to me?&#8221;  I&#8217;m inclined to think there&#8217;s something else going on that he isn&#8217;t talking about, and the likely candidate is some type of credible threat: of violence, of lawsuits, of funding cuts, or possibly a threat to &#8220;dox&#8221; him (release his &#8220;documents&#8221; i.e. private information:  &#8220;see, now you agree with us, don&#8217;t you?&#8221;).  Or I&#8217;m misreading him (again) and his tone is more accurately characterized as defiant?</p>
<p>In any case, we&#8217;re at war for the future of humanity, so what we need in this battle is a conclusive victory such as the reinstatement of the paper along with an apology, plus or minus Markram finding other employment.</p>
<p>In the end, the denialists themselves are merely pawns and shills, whose purpose is to distract our attention and waste our time.  The real target, the root cause and core of the entire issue, is the financial value of undeveloped fossil fuel assets worldwide.  The necessary goal is to develop, apply, and succeed at a well-founded and realistic strategy to keep those assets in the ground, permanently or until there is truly viable carbon-capture technology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2014 02:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, but also, in academia you simply do not tell people what to do their research on.  Not ever.  Ethics always apply, of course, but that is not an issue here.  It is outrageous that he presumes to judge the validity of a fellow academic&#039;s research program.  That is a mixture of hubris and ignorance that makes him a very very bad candidate for the job of &quot;editor in chief&quot; for any journal of any kind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but also, in academia you simply do not tell people what to do their research on.  Not ever.  Ethics always apply, of course, but that is not an issue here.  It is outrageous that he presumes to judge the validity of a fellow academic&#8217;s research program.  That is a mixture of hubris and ignorance that makes him a very very bad candidate for the job of &#8220;editor in chief&#8221; for any journal of any kind.</p>
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		<title>
		By: G		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479755</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2014 01:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479755</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[1)  Item to add to Fisking:  make him spell out his standards.

What, exactly, are the standards that Markram would uphold and live up to, for publishing social sciences research based on internet content?

Describing one&#039;s methodology enables readers to replicate it for themselves, e.g. &quot;we searched the terms &#039;blah&#039; plus &#039;blah&#039; for the year 2012...&quot; enables anyone to find the original material and thus the online identities who posted it.  Quoting or even closely paraphrasing the subject material enables laypeople to search the quotes and find the original identities.

Minus being able to describe methodology and cite data, you don&#039;t have a publishable paper.  Catch-22.

So, Mr. Markram, how do you propose to deal with that?   Be specific, and we expect you to live up to your own standards by accepting papers that meat them.

2)  Time for a &quot;JCB campaign&quot;?

Markram appears to be digging himself into a hole, deeper and deeper with every word he writes.  One can respond to such cases by emailing the person a picture of a JCB (hydraulic excavator) with a message to the effect of, &quot;You appear to be digging yourself into a hole that will eventually reach China.  Have a nice JCB, it&#039;ll make the work go faster.&quot;   When lots of people do this, it&#039;s a &quot;JCB campaign.&quot;

3)  The &quot;If not now, when?&quot; factor.

A 50% disparity in public opinion over a scientific finding with something like 97% consensus in the field, is automatically a significant &quot;anomaly,&quot; not quite at the level of spacecraft landing in Central Park, but darn close.  That makes it a viable subject, a downright urgent subject, for social sciences research.

To put it slightly differently, if a disparity of that magnitude _isn&#039;t_ deserving of ferocious research attention, what the hell is?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1)  Item to add to Fisking:  make him spell out his standards.</p>
<p>What, exactly, are the standards that Markram would uphold and live up to, for publishing social sciences research based on internet content?</p>
<p>Describing one&#8217;s methodology enables readers to replicate it for themselves, e.g. &#8220;we searched the terms &#8216;blah&#8217; plus &#8216;blah&#8217; for the year 2012&#8230;&#8221; enables anyone to find the original material and thus the online identities who posted it.  Quoting or even closely paraphrasing the subject material enables laypeople to search the quotes and find the original identities.</p>
<p>Minus being able to describe methodology and cite data, you don&#8217;t have a publishable paper.  Catch-22.</p>
<p>So, Mr. Markram, how do you propose to deal with that?   Be specific, and we expect you to live up to your own standards by accepting papers that meat them.</p>
<p>2)  Time for a &#8220;JCB campaign&#8221;?</p>
<p>Markram appears to be digging himself into a hole, deeper and deeper with every word he writes.  One can respond to such cases by emailing the person a picture of a JCB (hydraulic excavator) with a message to the effect of, &#8220;You appear to be digging yourself into a hole that will eventually reach China.  Have a nice JCB, it&#8217;ll make the work go faster.&#8221;   When lots of people do this, it&#8217;s a &#8220;JCB campaign.&#8221;</p>
<p>3)  The &#8220;If not now, when?&#8221; factor.</p>
<p>A 50% disparity in public opinion over a scientific finding with something like 97% consensus in the field, is automatically a significant &#8220;anomaly,&#8221; not quite at the level of spacecraft landing in Central Park, but darn close.  That makes it a viable subject, a downright urgent subject, for social sciences research.</p>
<p>To put it slightly differently, if a disparity of that magnitude _isn&#8217;t_ deserving of ferocious research attention, what the hell is?</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Mashey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479754</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 21:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479754</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Argh, sorry for broken html
That was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/xp.html#3772&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comment at STW&lt;/a&gt; and a quote from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100507/full/news.2010.229.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Publisher seeks patent.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argh, sorry for broken html<br />
That was <a href="http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/xp.html#3772" rel="nofollow">comment at STW</a> and a quote from <a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100507/full/news.2010.229.html" rel="nofollow">Publisher seeks patent.</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: John Mashey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479753</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479753</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/xp.html#3772&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cvomments&#060;/a..
Henry Markram  and his wife Kamilia (the CEO) founded Frontiers, of which &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100507/full/news.2010.229.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NPG bought a controlling interest in 2013.&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;Like the Public Library of Science (PLoS) and other open-access publishers, Frontiers charges authors a fee – in this case €2,000 (US$2,500) – to publish. But 40-55% of this fee is subsidized by the Frontiers Research Foundation, a not-for-profit Swiss charity of which Markram is president, meaning that authors pay at most €1,200.
The company has already published some 2,000 papers, which, multiplying by author fees, suggests that it has brought in some €2 million or more. To become financially sustainable, says Markram, the company will need to find additional sources of income, such as advertising.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See <a href="http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/xp.html#3772" rel="nofollow">cvomments&lt;/a..<br />
Henry Markram  and his wife Kamilia (the CEO) founded Frontiers, of which </a><a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100507/full/news.2010.229.html" rel="nofollow">NPG bought a controlling interest in 2013.</a><br />
&#8220;Like the Public Library of Science (PLoS) and other open-access publishers, Frontiers charges authors a fee – in this case €2,000 (US$2,500) – to publish. But 40-55% of this fee is subsidized by the Frontiers Research Foundation, a not-for-profit Swiss charity of which Markram is president, meaning that authors pay at most €1,200.<br />
The company has already published some 2,000 papers, which, multiplying by author fees, suggests that it has brought in some €2 million or more. To become financially sustainable, says Markram, the company will need to find additional sources of income, such as advertising.&#8221;</p>
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		By: Andati in loop, cont. &#8211; Ocasapiens - Blog - Repubblica.it		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/04/15/fisking-henry-markrams-comment-about-recursive-fury-and-the-frontiers-retraction/#comment-479752</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andati in loop, cont. &#8211; Ocasapiens - Blog - Repubblica.it]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 17:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19347#comment-479752</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Greg Laden ne fa polpette&#8230; Come nota lo spiritoso lagomorfo, forse perché Markram vive a Losanna, sembra non avere la minima idea del &#8220;linciaggio pubblico&#8221; inflitto ai ricercatori dalla testimonianza di Jim Hansen al Congresso nel 1988 in poi, proprio perché  si &#8221;concentrano sul cambiamento climatico&#8221; e &#8220;sviluppano scenari potenziali&#8221; ecc. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Greg Laden ne fa polpette&#8230; Come nota lo spiritoso lagomorfo, forse perché Markram vive a Losanna, sembra non avere la minima idea del &#8220;linciaggio pubblico&#8221; inflitto ai ricercatori dalla testimonianza di Jim Hansen al Congresso nel 1988 in poi, proprio perché  si &#8221;concentrano sul cambiamento climatico&#8221; e &#8220;sviluppano scenari potenziali&#8221; ecc. [&#8230;]</p>
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