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	Comments on: I want my flying electric car! Forget the jet pack.	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Gingerbaker		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gingerbaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2014 15:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I want more than an electric car.

I want an electric road. Inductive charging on the fly can work says Stanford experts. Say good bye to multiple millions of large, heavy, expensive short-lived batteries and replace them with an electric road.

I want a new 100% renewable energy Federal Electric Utility. I want us all to share in the up-front infrastructure costs and all share in getting all our energy needs satisfied by virtually free electricity. Too expensive you say?  It would cost no more than about 5-7 years worth of what we squander paying fossil fuel companies.

  And that is based on 2011 figures ($1.2 Trillion a year).  A Federal Electric Utility should save Americans about $3000 for every person in their household.  Every year.  In your pocket.  Think voters might go for that?  Oh, yeah - that would pretty much end CO2 emissions as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want more than an electric car.</p>
<p>I want an electric road. Inductive charging on the fly can work says Stanford experts. Say good bye to multiple millions of large, heavy, expensive short-lived batteries and replace them with an electric road.</p>
<p>I want a new 100% renewable energy Federal Electric Utility. I want us all to share in the up-front infrastructure costs and all share in getting all our energy needs satisfied by virtually free electricity. Too expensive you say?  It would cost no more than about 5-7 years worth of what we squander paying fossil fuel companies.</p>
<p>  And that is based on 2011 figures ($1.2 Trillion a year).  A Federal Electric Utility should save Americans about $3000 for every person in their household.  Every year.  In your pocket.  Think voters might go for that?  Oh, yeah &#8211; that would pretty much end CO2 emissions as well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Links 3/26/14 &#124; Mike the Mad Biologist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479386</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Links 3/26/14 &#124; Mike the Mad Biologist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2014 20:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479386</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] a deep-sea fish able to &#8216;stand&#8217; A Reptile Dysfunction: Unlikely Sources of Salmonella I want my flying electric car! Forget the jet pack. When agreement isn’t [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a deep-sea fish able to &#8216;stand&#8217; A Reptile Dysfunction: Unlikely Sources of Salmonella I want my flying electric car! Forget the jet pack. When agreement isn’t [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Davebspot		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479385</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Davebspot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 21:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479385</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are a lot of Prius&#039; s (prii?) here in alaska including my &#039;06 that have no winter mechanical issues. Good snow tires drop a couple mpg and operating in the cold requires the engine to run more to provide cabin heat etc....another couple mpg. Block heaters should be used on cars parked outside in the cold to reduce startup emmisions (until the cat converter has warmed). With tge right oil the engine has to get really really cold before startup lubrication is much of an issue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of Prius&#8217; s (prii?) here in alaska including my &#8217;06 that have no winter mechanical issues. Good snow tires drop a couple mpg and operating in the cold requires the engine to run more to provide cabin heat etc&#8230;.another couple mpg. Block heaters should be used on cars parked outside in the cold to reduce startup emmisions (until the cat converter has warmed). With tge right oil the engine has to get really really cold before startup lubrication is much of an issue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479384</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479384</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The days of the engine block heater in Minnesota are long gone.  The only people I know who use them drive diesel trucks. I think there are several reasons. The most important two reasons are 1) it is not as cold (global warming) and 2) cars are designed to start in the cold better.  But even over this winter, when it was VERY cold, most cars usually mostly started.  Well, OK, I had to replace my battery, but it was old anyway.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The days of the engine block heater in Minnesota are long gone.  The only people I know who use them drive diesel trucks. I think there are several reasons. The most important two reasons are 1) it is not as cold (global warming) and 2) cars are designed to start in the cold better.  But even over this winter, when it was VERY cold, most cars usually mostly started.  Well, OK, I had to replace my battery, but it was old anyway.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric Lund		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479383</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Lund]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479383</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Having said that we were not able to buy a plugin because they don’t bother to sell Prius plugin (which is a new model) in the north because they (Toyota) does not like the cold.&lt;/i&gt;

Wait, what? I would expect places with very cold climates (like northern Minnesota or interior Alaska) to be favorable for introducing electric cars, because they already have a big piece of the infrastructure in place. That&#039;s because, if you drive an internal combustion vehicle up there, you need to plug in an electric engine block heater so that the engine will be warm enough to start. When I was in Fairbanks, it was standard practice in winter to plug in your (IC) car, and radio announcers would remind listeners that plugging in was recommended whenever temperatures were below +20 F (for comparison, average January temperatures in Fairbanks are about -10 F, but anything within the -50 to +30 range is not unusual). So switching to electric in those places is easy: you plug your electric car into the socket you would have used for the engine block heater on your IC car.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Having said that we were not able to buy a plugin because they don’t bother to sell Prius plugin (which is a new model) in the north because they (Toyota) does not like the cold.</i></p>
<p>Wait, what? I would expect places with very cold climates (like northern Minnesota or interior Alaska) to be favorable for introducing electric cars, because they already have a big piece of the infrastructure in place. That&#8217;s because, if you drive an internal combustion vehicle up there, you need to plug in an electric engine block heater so that the engine will be warm enough to start. When I was in Fairbanks, it was standard practice in winter to plug in your (IC) car, and radio announcers would remind listeners that plugging in was recommended whenever temperatures were below +20 F (for comparison, average January temperatures in Fairbanks are about -10 F, but anything within the -50 to +30 range is not unusual). So switching to electric in those places is easy: you plug your electric car into the socket you would have used for the engine block heater on your IC car.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479382</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479382</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479381&quot;&gt;BeardedBeard&lt;/a&gt;.

Good question.  First, I can tell you that we bought our new Prius just as the Polar Vortex was setting in. Now, having compared mileage between daily highs well below zero for weeks vs normal chilly cold (hardly ever above freezing but generally above zero) I can say that there was about a 2 mpg gallon loss during the really cold days, which may be from a lot of factors (ALL cars, no matter what the fuel, seem to lose a couple MPG when it is super cold, so we should avoid making electric DBIH by ignoring that) .

Having said that we were not able to buy a plugin because they don&#039;t bother to sell Prius plugin (which is a new model) in the north because they (Toyota) does not like the cold.

The thing is, these are all engineering problems that have been solved. If the batteries like to be warm, heat them up, using a bit of energy to bring efficiency to nomral. For the Prius, exess engine heat is stored in a thermos bottle deep inside the car, and that stays hot for days.  That is used to warm the parts that need to be warm very efficiently.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479381">BeardedBeard</a>.</p>
<p>Good question.  First, I can tell you that we bought our new Prius just as the Polar Vortex was setting in. Now, having compared mileage between daily highs well below zero for weeks vs normal chilly cold (hardly ever above freezing but generally above zero) I can say that there was about a 2 mpg gallon loss during the really cold days, which may be from a lot of factors (ALL cars, no matter what the fuel, seem to lose a couple MPG when it is super cold, so we should avoid making electric DBIH by ignoring that) .</p>
<p>Having said that we were not able to buy a plugin because they don&#8217;t bother to sell Prius plugin (which is a new model) in the north because they (Toyota) does not like the cold.</p>
<p>The thing is, these are all engineering problems that have been solved. If the batteries like to be warm, heat them up, using a bit of energy to bring efficiency to nomral. For the Prius, exess engine heat is stored in a thermos bottle deep inside the car, and that stays hot for days.  That is used to warm the parts that need to be warm very efficiently.</p>
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		<title>
		By: BeardedBeard		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479381</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BeardedBeard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479381</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this thread slipped into an episode of cartalk.

People with EV in Minnesota or other cool places. How well does the car work on those really mind numbingly cold days in the winter? I hope to have a garage to park in overnight soon but have to park outside during the day for work. If I go the EV/plug-in Hybrid route will the darn thing get me home at night?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this thread slipped into an episode of cartalk.</p>
<p>People with EV in Minnesota or other cool places. How well does the car work on those really mind numbingly cold days in the winter? I hope to have a garage to park in overnight soon but have to park outside during the day for work. If I go the EV/plug-in Hybrid route will the darn thing get me home at night?</p>
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		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479380</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479380</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The big advantage hydrocarbon based fuels have over batteries is energy density, both in terms of kwhr per mass and per volume.

IC engines are pretty efficient, and they don&#039;t lose that much efficiency as they are moved down in size.  The reason for this is because they are heat engines, and the combustion occurs very rapidly so it reaches a high temperature and the work is extracted at that high temperature, so there is good Carnot efficiency.

Also, IC technology is pretty mature, the cost of an engine is mostly the cost of the raw materials.

Battery technology has no where close to the same level of maturity.  There are many more degrees of freedom in choice of chemistry for batteries than there are for choice of materials for IC engines.

IC engines never had to contend with whole mature business sectors trying to crush them the way fossil fuel producers are trying to crush renewable energy.  Also, the electric utilities are trying to crush local electricity supply by charging outrageous hook-up fees.

Electric utilities are regulated monopolies.  The regulators need to simply tell the utilities to accept it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big advantage hydrocarbon based fuels have over batteries is energy density, both in terms of kwhr per mass and per volume.</p>
<p>IC engines are pretty efficient, and they don&#8217;t lose that much efficiency as they are moved down in size.  The reason for this is because they are heat engines, and the combustion occurs very rapidly so it reaches a high temperature and the work is extracted at that high temperature, so there is good Carnot efficiency.</p>
<p>Also, IC technology is pretty mature, the cost of an engine is mostly the cost of the raw materials.</p>
<p>Battery technology has no where close to the same level of maturity.  There are many more degrees of freedom in choice of chemistry for batteries than there are for choice of materials for IC engines.</p>
<p>IC engines never had to contend with whole mature business sectors trying to crush them the way fossil fuel producers are trying to crush renewable energy.  Also, the electric utilities are trying to crush local electricity supply by charging outrageous hook-up fees.</p>
<p>Electric utilities are regulated monopolies.  The regulators need to simply tell the utilities to accept it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479379</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 03:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479379</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, over time, as those old cars continue to pile up out in the yard, we can start using them for something other than chicken coops!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, over time, as those old cars continue to pile up out in the yard, we can start using them for something other than chicken coops!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Shawn Otto		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/24/i-want-my-flying-electric-car-forget-the-jet-pack/#comment-479378</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shawn Otto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2014 03:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19175#comment-479378</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In my experience owning a Tesla, the savings are not 95% but are still substantial. I used to spend $450 per month on gas to drive a Lexus hybrid that got 25 mpg avg. I now spend $40 to do an equivalent amount of driving. Over 10 years I&#039;ll save $50k. I charge at night off peak at 5.5 cents/khw or the $40 would be higher. The performance of electric is also a major, major jump over gas, with 100% torque available at zero rpms, so the Model S is one of the fastest street-legal cars on the road, doing zero-60 in 4.2 secs. And it can take off like a fighter jet from any speed, ramming you into you seat with its g-force. On the energy source question: we have a wind generator for part of our power, and we buy wind electric for the balance. But even if we did not the advantage is huge just because electric is so very much more efficient and more powerful that you save even on coal-fired electricity. The decoupling of cars from one particular energy source gets us off foreign oil, improves national security and the environment, fights climate change, and yes when enough batteries are deployed they can act as power-storage for variable power generation like wind. There is also a growing market for home energy storage using battery packs from crashed EVs, which are big enough to power a house for many days. Finally, decoupling transportation from oil/gas allows us to have a separate conversation about how to generate and distribute power, and that puts us back in the driver&#039;s seat - so to speak.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience owning a Tesla, the savings are not 95% but are still substantial. I used to spend $450 per month on gas to drive a Lexus hybrid that got 25 mpg avg. I now spend $40 to do an equivalent amount of driving. Over 10 years I&#8217;ll save $50k. I charge at night off peak at 5.5 cents/khw or the $40 would be higher. The performance of electric is also a major, major jump over gas, with 100% torque available at zero rpms, so the Model S is one of the fastest street-legal cars on the road, doing zero-60 in 4.2 secs. And it can take off like a fighter jet from any speed, ramming you into you seat with its g-force. On the energy source question: we have a wind generator for part of our power, and we buy wind electric for the balance. But even if we did not the advantage is huge just because electric is so very much more efficient and more powerful that you save even on coal-fired electricity. The decoupling of cars from one particular energy source gets us off foreign oil, improves national security and the environment, fights climate change, and yes when enough batteries are deployed they can act as power-storage for variable power generation like wind. There is also a growing market for home energy storage using battery packs from crashed EVs, which are big enough to power a house for many days. Finally, decoupling transportation from oil/gas allows us to have a separate conversation about how to generate and distribute power, and that puts us back in the driver&#8217;s seat &#8211; so to speak.</p>
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