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	Comments on: A New Fake Report On Climate Change.	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478996</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478996</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478995&quot;&gt;John&lt;/a&gt;.

Good question.  I&#039;m not going to assume you are not one of those pesky science deniers pretending to ask an innocent looking question until proven otherwise, but I&#039;ll address this.

It is true that if a forcing other than CO2 raises or lowers temperatures, CO2 amounts follow, because of the way the Carbon cycle works.  That is a separate effect than adding CO2 to the atmosphere, which then raises the heat.  So you are talking about both different systems and different scales of change.

You can read about it here: http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478995">John</a>.</p>
<p>Good question.  I&#8217;m not going to assume you are not one of those pesky science deniers pretending to ask an innocent looking question until proven otherwise, but I&#8217;ll address this.</p>
<p>It is true that if a forcing other than CO2 raises or lowers temperatures, CO2 amounts follow, because of the way the Carbon cycle works.  That is a separate effect than adding CO2 to the atmosphere, which then raises the heat.  So you are talking about both different systems and different scales of change.</p>
<p>You can read about it here: <a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: John		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478995</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478995</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How is CO2 the cause of temp changes when historically CO2 levels has have always lagged behind the temp changes?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is CO2 the cause of temp changes when historically CO2 levels has have always lagged behind the temp changes?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478994</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478994</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478993&quot;&gt;Sam Smith&lt;/a&gt;.

Dear &quot;Sam Smith&quot; from Texas.

There is plenty of dissent and alternative theorizing in real science.  But then there is also the fake science, the non-science that does have a political or economic (or just plain kooky) agenda.  The latter is what denialists do.

I know you think that one or a few people who get it totally wrong and are largely ignorant of the science must be brilliant and insightful like Galileo, but that is not actually how it works. That is not how Galileo did it, and it is not how you get to do it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478993">Sam Smith</a>.</p>
<p>Dear &#8220;Sam Smith&#8221; from Texas.</p>
<p>There is plenty of dissent and alternative theorizing in real science.  But then there is also the fake science, the non-science that does have a political or economic (or just plain kooky) agenda.  The latter is what denialists do.</p>
<p>I know you think that one or a few people who get it totally wrong and are largely ignorant of the science must be brilliant and insightful like Galileo, but that is not actually how it works. That is not how Galileo did it, and it is not how you get to do it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sam Smith		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478993</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478993</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ask yourself, why would any real scientist not welcome a new or dissenting theory?  Real scientists want to find the truth and are eager to test each hypothesis if there&#039;s any chance it might be proven.  We haven&#039;t seen this kind of puritanical fervor promoting &quot;climate change&quot; since the Catholic church suppressed Galileo and Copernicus.  When you see terms like &quot;denialist&quot; or kook, or &quot;funded by the right,&quot; ask yourself where this is coming from.  Is it science? Or is it a political agenda?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask yourself, why would any real scientist not welcome a new or dissenting theory?  Real scientists want to find the truth and are eager to test each hypothesis if there&#8217;s any chance it might be proven.  We haven&#8217;t seen this kind of puritanical fervor promoting &#8220;climate change&#8221; since the Catholic church suppressed Galileo and Copernicus.  When you see terms like &#8220;denialist&#8221; or kook, or &#8220;funded by the right,&#8221; ask yourself where this is coming from.  Is it science? Or is it a political agenda?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478992</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2014 20:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478992</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They also used a classic set of denialist tactics, focusing on the hiatus as the source of understanding of climate, and cherry picking results, focusing on less reliable ones and ignoring more reliable ones.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They also used a classic set of denialist tactics, focusing on the hiatus as the source of understanding of climate, and cherry picking results, focusing on less reliable ones and ignoring more reliable ones.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Juice		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478991</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2014 19:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478991</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rabbit,

They&#039;re not science deniers, but they are advocating for a lower climate sensitivity. The climate sensitivity scales to the amount of fear that any right-thinking citizen should feel, kind of like the terror alert color code. Saying that it&#039;s low means that they are saying that right-thinkers should not be so worried. This is why they deny reality. We should all be very afraid and only a denier would deny that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbit,</p>
<p>They&#8217;re not science deniers, but they are advocating for a lower climate sensitivity. The climate sensitivity scales to the amount of fear that any right-thinking citizen should feel, kind of like the terror alert color code. Saying that it&#8217;s low means that they are saying that right-thinkers should not be so worried. This is why they deny reality. We should all be very afraid and only a denier would deny that.</p>
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		By: Mais uma tentativa de negar a importância do carbono no aquecimento global &#124; Universidade, Ciência e Ambiente		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478990</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mais uma tentativa de negar a importância do carbono no aquecimento global &#124; Universidade, Ciência e Ambiente]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2014 12:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478990</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] já havia posto os pingos nos is, desqualificando o relatório de Lewis e Crock com o post &#8220;Um novo relatório falso sobre mudança do clima&#8220;. Laden mostrou que os dois autores estavam, na verdade, limitado sua tese a dados que o [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] já havia posto os pingos nos is, desqualificando o relatório de Lewis e Crock com o post &#8220;Um novo relatório falso sobre mudança do clima&#8220;. Laden mostrou que os dois autores estavam, na verdade, limitado sua tese a dados que o [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: rabbit		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478989</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rabbit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478989</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lewis and Crok are clearly not &quot;deniers&quot; in that they don&#039;t deny AGW, but claim the climate is less sensitive to CO2 forcing than many believe.

You want to critique their article then great, but you sap your own credibility with the name calling.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lewis and Crok are clearly not &#8220;deniers&#8221; in that they don&#8217;t deny AGW, but claim the climate is less sensitive to CO2 forcing than many believe.</p>
<p>You want to critique their article then great, but you sap your own credibility with the name calling.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lewis and Crok - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478988</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lewis and Crok - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2014 15:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478988</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Greg Laden explains why it&#039;s such a shoddy piece of work. Lewis and Crok cherrypicked their little hearts out, a tried and true denialist tactic. By simply pretending all the higher estimates didn&#039;t exist, they could then claim their lower estimate had to be correct. They&#039;re saying the IPCC is wrong because the IPCC looked at all the data instead of cherrypicking like they did. That will be why nobody of note pays the paper any attention, and that will then feed the denialist paranoia about how there&#039;s a conspiracy against them.   A New Fake Report On Climate Change. ? Greg Laden&#039;s Blog [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Greg Laden explains why it&#039;s such a shoddy piece of work. Lewis and Crok cherrypicked their little hearts out, a tried and true denialist tactic. By simply pretending all the higher estimates didn&#039;t exist, they could then claim their lower estimate had to be correct. They&#039;re saying the IPCC is wrong because the IPCC looked at all the data instead of cherrypicking like they did. That will be why nobody of note pays the paper any attention, and that will then feed the denialist paranoia about how there&#039;s a conspiracy against them.   A New Fake Report On Climate Change. ? Greg Laden&#039;s Blog [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/04/a-new-fake-report-on-climate-change/#comment-478987</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2014 16:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19053#comment-478987</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave Werth: &lt;i&gt;I suppose you could call that report “The Lewis and Crok Exposition”.&lt;/i&gt;

Or you could just call it a crock. Which is unkind, but accurate as far as I can tell.

There are two aspects to this paper, it seems to me. The first is the question of scientific validity. With respect to that, it would be good if it had been published in a peer-reviewed journal. There it would be subject to rigorous assessment by mainstream scientists. Contrary to belief in certain quarters, scientists respect valid data. If Lewis and Crok had come up with some, they would get credit (although perhaps not immediately.)

The second aspect is the question of ideological bias. This is something which the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Global Warming Policy Foundation&lt;/A&gt;, publisher of this paper, has consistently demonstrated. It opposes proposed actions to mitigate the effects of climate change, and seeks to forestall them by any means, including obfuscation of climate science.

All that said, nothing precludes a paper published by the GWPF exposing some new evidence that actually does show climate sensitivity is less than previously supposed. And as I said, if Lewis and Crok have done that, they will be recognized.

But I don&#039;t think they have. I come to that conclusion merely by reading the subtitle of their paper: &quot;How the IPCC hid the good news on global warming.&quot; No scientists with the real, revolutionary data in hand would need to suggest a conspiracy to hide that data; they would simply present it and let things get sorted out. (After which, I frequently point out, they would be sorta rich and famous.)

That subtitle is, in short, a very good indication that their paper is blowing smoke. Perusing its 44 pages and explaining its faults is valuable, and I thank Greg for doing so. But part of the denialist strategy is to waste opponents&#039; time, and any rule of thumb that cuts that short is IMO a good thing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Werth: <i>I suppose you could call that report “The Lewis and Crok Exposition”.</i></p>
<p>Or you could just call it a crock. Which is unkind, but accurate as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>There are two aspects to this paper, it seems to me. The first is the question of scientific validity. With respect to that, it would be good if it had been published in a peer-reviewed journal. There it would be subject to rigorous assessment by mainstream scientists. Contrary to belief in certain quarters, scientists respect valid data. If Lewis and Crok had come up with some, they would get credit (although perhaps not immediately.)</p>
<p>The second aspect is the question of ideological bias. This is something which the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation" rel="nofollow">Global Warming Policy Foundation</a>, publisher of this paper, has consistently demonstrated. It opposes proposed actions to mitigate the effects of climate change, and seeks to forestall them by any means, including obfuscation of climate science.</p>
<p>All that said, nothing precludes a paper published by the GWPF exposing some new evidence that actually does show climate sensitivity is less than previously supposed. And as I said, if Lewis and Crok have done that, they will be recognized.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think they have. I come to that conclusion merely by reading the subtitle of their paper: &#8220;How the IPCC hid the good news on global warming.&#8221; No scientists with the real, revolutionary data in hand would need to suggest a conspiracy to hide that data; they would simply present it and let things get sorted out. (After which, I frequently point out, they would be sorta rich and famous.)</p>
<p>That subtitle is, in short, a very good indication that their paper is blowing smoke. Perusing its 44 pages and explaining its faults is valuable, and I thank Greg for doing so. But part of the denialist strategy is to waste opponents&#8217; time, and any rule of thumb that cuts that short is IMO a good thing.</p>
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