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	Comments on: A Letter From John Holdren Regarding Roger Pielke Jr&#039;s Statements	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/</link>
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		<title>
		By: The Science Police &#124; Issues in Science and Technology		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Science Police &#124; Issues in Science and Technology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] heels of Pielke’s clash with John Holdren, then President Obama’s science advisor. Holdren had testified to Congress that on the issue of climate change and severe weather, Pielke’s interpretation of the data was [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] heels of Pielke’s clash with John Holdren, then President Obama’s science advisor. Holdren had testified to Congress that on the issue of climate change and severe weather, Pielke’s interpretation of the data was [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Holdren: Drought and Global Climate Change: An Analysis of Statements by Roger Pielke Jr &#124; Climate Science Watch		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Holdren: Drought and Global Climate Change: An Analysis of Statements by Roger Pielke Jr &#124; Climate Science Watch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2014 01:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] to Greg Laden for help with text [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to Greg Laden for help with text [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Another Week of Anthropocene Antics, March 2, 2014 [A Few Things Ill Considered] &#124; Gaia Gazette		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478929</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another Week of Anthropocene Antics, March 2, 2014 [A Few Things Ill Considered] &#124; Gaia Gazette]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2014 21:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478929</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] 2014/03/01: GLaden: A Letter From John Holdren Regarding Roger Pielke Jr&#8217;s Statements [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 2014/03/01: GLaden: A Letter From John Holdren Regarding Roger Pielke Jr&#8217;s Statements [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478928</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478928</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would like to second Eli Rabbett&#039;s comment.  If the point of Senate testimony is to best inform the Senate, it seems Mr. Pielke failed in this regard based on Sen. Session&#039;s remarks.  I would think Mr. Pielke would clarify for Sen Session so that the Senator could be as well informed as possible.  If not, why?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to second Eli Rabbett&#8217;s comment.  If the point of Senate testimony is to best inform the Senate, it seems Mr. Pielke failed in this regard based on Sen. Session&#8217;s remarks.  I would think Mr. Pielke would clarify for Sen Session so that the Senator could be as well informed as possible.  If not, why?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Another Week of Anthropocene Antics, March 2, 2014 &#8211; A Few Things Ill Considered		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478927</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another Week of Anthropocene Antics, March 2, 2014 &#8211; A Few Things Ill Considered]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478927</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] 2014/03/01: GLaden: A Letter From John Holdren Regarding Roger Pielke Jr&#8217;s Statements [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 2014/03/01: GLaden: A Letter From John Holdren Regarding Roger Pielke Jr&#8217;s Statements [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: La verità, nient&#8217;altro che, ma non tutta &#8211; Ocasapiens - Blog - Repubblica.it		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478926</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[La verità, nient&#8217;altro che, ma non tutta &#8211; Ocasapiens - Blog - Repubblica.it]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2014 18:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478926</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] che Holdren ha preso una cantonata e che in realtà dicono entrambi le stesse cose, ma vari benintenzionati gli rinfrescano la [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] che Holdren ha preso una cantonata e che in realtà dicono entrambi le stesse cose, ma vari benintenzionati gli rinfrescano la [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mauri S Pelto		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mauri S Pelto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2014 13:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jay, a good example of the examination of the role of climate change in exteme events is from BAMS (http://www.ametsoc.org/2012extremeeventsclimate.pdf)
This report makes it clear why this is difficult, and part of it is the building of the longer term record of extremes to which you refer.

It is important to recognize that  Extreme weather events are not a bad place to look for climate signals, as Roger Piekle has suggested.  Instead extreme events are an important but not easy place to detect climate signals.  So it makes complete scientific sense to look for the impact of climate change on extreme events, since they are a key cause of economic damage.  Further it is not realistic for our changing climate to not impact most extreme events, even if that impact is small and hard to discern.  It is crucial to examine the impact and this is the scientific process that now is ongoing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, a good example of the examination of the role of climate change in exteme events is from BAMS (<a href="http://www.ametsoc.org/2012extremeeventsclimate.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.ametsoc.org/2012extremeeventsclimate.pdf</a>)<br />
This report makes it clear why this is difficult, and part of it is the building of the longer term record of extremes to which you refer.</p>
<p>It is important to recognize that  Extreme weather events are not a bad place to look for climate signals, as Roger Piekle has suggested.  Instead extreme events are an important but not easy place to detect climate signals.  So it makes complete scientific sense to look for the impact of climate change on extreme events, since they are a key cause of economic damage.  Further it is not realistic for our changing climate to not impact most extreme events, even if that impact is small and hard to discern.  It is crucial to examine the impact and this is the scientific process that now is ongoing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478924</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2014 10:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478924</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr Pielke,

&quot;Complaining about what goes into a footnote vs. main text is hardly the stuff of in-or-out of scientific mainstream&quot;

Given that the context of the discussion was the drought in California, leaving out the second part of the quote, which actually referred to the South West, (and contradicted your argument by the way), was pretty devious.  Maybe not in-or-out of the scientific mainstream, but was it ethical?  This is the sort of thing that Insurance companies do all the time, burying important caveats in the fine print.

Could it be that you did this because if you had included the entire quote in context, you couldn&#039;t have realistically made your point in the first place?

Misleading is too kind a word for this sort of behaviour, dishonest is more apt.  This is a type of argument, commonly employed by the contrarian or &quot;skeptic&quot; side, and is what has convinced me that they do not really have anything to contribute at all.  If you have to rely upon quote mining, selective quotes out of context and cherry picking (which pretty much all they have as far as I can see), then maybe you don&#039;t have an argument at all.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Pielke,</p>
<p>&#8220;Complaining about what goes into a footnote vs. main text is hardly the stuff of in-or-out of scientific mainstream&#8221;</p>
<p>Given that the context of the discussion was the drought in California, leaving out the second part of the quote, which actually referred to the South West, (and contradicted your argument by the way), was pretty devious.  Maybe not in-or-out of the scientific mainstream, but was it ethical?  This is the sort of thing that Insurance companies do all the time, burying important caveats in the fine print.</p>
<p>Could it be that you did this because if you had included the entire quote in context, you couldn&#8217;t have realistically made your point in the first place?</p>
<p>Misleading is too kind a word for this sort of behaviour, dishonest is more apt.  This is a type of argument, commonly employed by the contrarian or &#8220;skeptic&#8221; side, and is what has convinced me that they do not really have anything to contribute at all.  If you have to rely upon quote mining, selective quotes out of context and cherry picking (which pretty much all they have as far as I can see), then maybe you don&#8217;t have an argument at all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Leif Knutsen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478923</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Knutsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2014 05:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478923</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Carnage. No other word comes to mind. Those that deny the climatic disruption realities that confront the people, Nation, Species and Planetary Life Support Systems suborn nothing less than &quot;mass suicide&quot; IMO. Climatic Disruption goes hand in hand with the corporate/fossil baron ability to profit from the pollution of the commons. &quot;We the People&quot; are forced to subsidize this atrocity. You or I cannot stop it, but you and I can. Many hands make light work,

Norman Solomon. &quot;Peace becomes perpetual when used as a rational for survival.&quot; Yours truly. Socially enabled capitalism is a failed paradigm. War is a prime example. Stop profits from the exploitation and pollution of the commons. Give PEACE a chance. Give Green a chance. Hell, give HUMANITY A CHANCE!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carnage. No other word comes to mind. Those that deny the climatic disruption realities that confront the people, Nation, Species and Planetary Life Support Systems suborn nothing less than &#8220;mass suicide&#8221; IMO. Climatic Disruption goes hand in hand with the corporate/fossil baron ability to profit from the pollution of the commons. &#8220;We the People&#8221; are forced to subsidize this atrocity. You or I cannot stop it, but you and I can. Many hands make light work,</p>
<p>Norman Solomon. &#8220;Peace becomes perpetual when used as a rational for survival.&#8221; Yours truly. Socially enabled capitalism is a failed paradigm. War is a prime example. Stop profits from the exploitation and pollution of the commons. Give PEACE a chance. Give Green a chance. Hell, give HUMANITY A CHANCE!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2014 01:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=19024#comment-478922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478912&quot;&gt;Jay Scism&lt;/a&gt;.

Are you saying that the water shortage in California was created by politicians and environmental activists? How the heck did they do that?

It may not matter in the end.  The effect of climate change is not necessarily drought in a given region (though it could be).  It is extremes.  We may see a california wondering what to do with all this extra water in a year or two.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/03/01/a-letter-from-john-holdren-regarding-roger-pielke-jrs-statements/#comment-478912">Jay Scism</a>.</p>
<p>Are you saying that the water shortage in California was created by politicians and environmental activists? How the heck did they do that?</p>
<p>It may not matter in the end.  The effect of climate change is not necessarily drought in a given region (though it could be).  It is extremes.  We may see a california wondering what to do with all this extra water in a year or two.</p>
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