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	Comments on: Chris Kluwe, The Vikings, And Sports Privilege	</title>
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		<title>
		By: G		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/01/04/chris-kluwe-the-vikings-and-sports-privilege/#comment-477732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jan 2014 01:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18403#comment-477732</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll differ with #5 as follows:

One of the continuing and pernicious atavisms present in humans is _genetic competition_, despite the fact that we share 99% of our genome with chimpanzees &#038; bonobos.  Genetic competition drives everything from fights over mates to world wars, and all of the media related to these, notably in cinema and in popular song lyrics.

One of the central claims of masculinity is sexual potency and the ability to produce offspring.  This is true even among rationalists and translates to a testable hypothesis:   Survey a statistically relevant sample of people in all professions and occupations, and you will find that working scientists who are male and infertile are probably every bit as private &#038; protective about their infertility as males in other careers.

Conventionally, gay males don&#039;t reproduce, though with modern medical and cultural developments this is changing (e.g. gay couple and lesbian couple make cooperative arrangements and engage a doctor to assist).

Thus for many males, being thought to be gay carries the implication that they are non-reproductive: &quot;losers&quot; in the genetic competition.

Further, this should predictably translate to a greater degree of fear among those males who are comparatively powerless in society, such as unskilled or less-skilled workers.  This, because they are already at higher risk of predation from those &quot;above them&quot; in the socioeconomic food-chain, and any &quot;admission&quot; of being &quot;less potent&quot; is felt to further increase their predation risk.   Again, testable hypotheses via careful survey research.

Ultimately humans have to get over the genetic competition instincts, just as they have to get over the desire to dominate each other.  These aspects of cultural evolution are essential if we are to take the steps that lead to becoming an interstellar species, and thereby avoid becoming a collective cosmic Darwinian failure when the Sun&#039;s luminosity increases in a half billion years and sterilizes the Earth.  Our cosmic success as a species, and the success of the entire lineage of Earth-originated life, depends on recognizing that the only relevant distinction is that all of us, from microbes to mammals, share a common origin and common telos.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll differ with #5 as follows:</p>
<p>One of the continuing and pernicious atavisms present in humans is _genetic competition_, despite the fact that we share 99% of our genome with chimpanzees &amp; bonobos.  Genetic competition drives everything from fights over mates to world wars, and all of the media related to these, notably in cinema and in popular song lyrics.</p>
<p>One of the central claims of masculinity is sexual potency and the ability to produce offspring.  This is true even among rationalists and translates to a testable hypothesis:   Survey a statistically relevant sample of people in all professions and occupations, and you will find that working scientists who are male and infertile are probably every bit as private &amp; protective about their infertility as males in other careers.</p>
<p>Conventionally, gay males don&#8217;t reproduce, though with modern medical and cultural developments this is changing (e.g. gay couple and lesbian couple make cooperative arrangements and engage a doctor to assist).</p>
<p>Thus for many males, being thought to be gay carries the implication that they are non-reproductive: &#8220;losers&#8221; in the genetic competition.</p>
<p>Further, this should predictably translate to a greater degree of fear among those males who are comparatively powerless in society, such as unskilled or less-skilled workers.  This, because they are already at higher risk of predation from those &#8220;above them&#8221; in the socioeconomic food-chain, and any &#8220;admission&#8221; of being &#8220;less potent&#8221; is felt to further increase their predation risk.   Again, testable hypotheses via careful survey research.</p>
<p>Ultimately humans have to get over the genetic competition instincts, just as they have to get over the desire to dominate each other.  These aspects of cultural evolution are essential if we are to take the steps that lead to becoming an interstellar species, and thereby avoid becoming a collective cosmic Darwinian failure when the Sun&#8217;s luminosity increases in a half billion years and sterilizes the Earth.  Our cosmic success as a species, and the success of the entire lineage of Earth-originated life, depends on recognizing that the only relevant distinction is that all of us, from microbes to mammals, share a common origin and common telos.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Politicalguineapig		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/01/04/chris-kluwe-the-vikings-and-sports-privilege/#comment-477731</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Politicalguineapig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jan 2014 18:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18403#comment-477731</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nemo: But what I don’t get is why these notions of male superiority and sharply-defined gender roles are so important to so many people. Obviously they run deep, and they’ve been around a long time. But… why? What’s the attraction?

To raise armies and be effective at fighting wars. In order to have a good army (or a sports team), one must systematically wipe out any sympathy for others.
 Men are therefore encouraged to bond only to men and to regard women as inferior. He must hate what his comrades hate and love what they love.
This is responsible, in a large part, for the reason that men in military service, on sports teams, or in occupations like construction work and oil tend to have a problem with domestic abuse and be homophobic.
They can&#039;t sympathize anymore and are incapable of forming any but the shallowest emotional bond- and they can only bond with other men.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nemo: But what I don’t get is why these notions of male superiority and sharply-defined gender roles are so important to so many people. Obviously they run deep, and they’ve been around a long time. But… why? What’s the attraction?</p>
<p>To raise armies and be effective at fighting wars. In order to have a good army (or a sports team), one must systematically wipe out any sympathy for others.<br />
 Men are therefore encouraged to bond only to men and to regard women as inferior. He must hate what his comrades hate and love what they love.<br />
This is responsible, in a large part, for the reason that men in military service, on sports teams, or in occupations like construction work and oil tend to have a problem with domestic abuse and be homophobic.<br />
They can&#8217;t sympathize anymore and are incapable of forming any but the shallowest emotional bond- and they can only bond with other men.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Smarter Than Your Average Bear		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/01/04/chris-kluwe-the-vikings-and-sports-privilege/#comment-477730</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smarter Than Your Average Bear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jan 2014 08:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18403#comment-477730</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like NFL football but I&#039;m growing ever more annoyed at the displays of religiosity on the field (guy scores a TD and looks up to the sky and holds fingers up to the sky) so typical of the God is on my side mentality that is the source of much woe in this world. So I don&#039;t doubt this gets carried over in a big way into the dressing room and the clubhouse. Having the whole team recite the Lord&#039;s Prayer before going on to the field seems to be de rigueur in the NFL - you can imagine the pressure on an atheist to conform to this - do or be branded as not a team player - your NFL career is now over.

I have a lot of respect for Chris Kluwe both as an awesome athlete and for his principled stance on a basic human right.  I hope his new stint with the Raiders will make the Vikings really regret their action.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like NFL football but I&#8217;m growing ever more annoyed at the displays of religiosity on the field (guy scores a TD and looks up to the sky and holds fingers up to the sky) so typical of the God is on my side mentality that is the source of much woe in this world. So I don&#8217;t doubt this gets carried over in a big way into the dressing room and the clubhouse. Having the whole team recite the Lord&#8217;s Prayer before going on to the field seems to be de rigueur in the NFL &#8211; you can imagine the pressure on an atheist to conform to this &#8211; do or be branded as not a team player &#8211; your NFL career is now over.</p>
<p>I have a lot of respect for Chris Kluwe both as an awesome athlete and for his principled stance on a basic human right.  I hope his new stint with the Raiders will make the Vikings really regret their action.</p>
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		<title>
		By: G		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/01/04/chris-kluwe-the-vikings-and-sports-privilege/#comment-477729</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jan 2014 01:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18403#comment-477729</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A few years ago, a peer-reviewed paper reported that males who express strong homophobic opinions also exhibit significantly higher responses on the penile plethysmograph when shown (non-pornographic) gay-themed photos, as compared to men who do not express strong homophobic opinions.

In other words, homophobes have subconscious or barely-conscious arousal responses to same-sex imagery.  From this one can infer that they are at war against themselves, and they express outspoken bigotry as a defense mechanism.

Former Vikings player Kluwe on the other hand, appears to be an example of someone who has no such internal conflicts (his article suggests he has a wife and children), and by inference, is completely secure in his own (heterosexual) orientation.  Thus he can and did take up the fight for equality as a matter of principle with no personal benefit to be had, in a similar manner as many white folks supported the black civil rights movement.

It would be interesting to put coach Mike Priefer on a penile plethysmograph and show him some pictures of guys hugging and kissing.  &quot;Boing!&quot;  We have a winner!;-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few years ago, a peer-reviewed paper reported that males who express strong homophobic opinions also exhibit significantly higher responses on the penile plethysmograph when shown (non-pornographic) gay-themed photos, as compared to men who do not express strong homophobic opinions.</p>
<p>In other words, homophobes have subconscious or barely-conscious arousal responses to same-sex imagery.  From this one can infer that they are at war against themselves, and they express outspoken bigotry as a defense mechanism.</p>
<p>Former Vikings player Kluwe on the other hand, appears to be an example of someone who has no such internal conflicts (his article suggests he has a wife and children), and by inference, is completely secure in his own (heterosexual) orientation.  Thus he can and did take up the fight for equality as a matter of principle with no personal benefit to be had, in a similar manner as many white folks supported the black civil rights movement.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to put coach Mike Priefer on a penile plethysmograph and show him some pictures of guys hugging and kissing.  &#8220;Boing!&#8221;  We have a winner!;-)</p>
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		<title>
		By: rsm		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/01/04/chris-kluwe-the-vikings-and-sports-privilege/#comment-477728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rsm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jan 2014 23:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18403#comment-477728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not sure I buy the macho culture notion. It may be a part, but so is people just being people and believing that their own definition of &#039;icky&#039; constitutes some kind of moral definition of acceptability. Lack of tolerance, empathy and understanding of others is also fostered by an adversarial culture that categorizes things into simple good/bad dichotomies (I&#039;m less certain about this in the context of the American culture, than I am of my first statement).

&quot;A homophobe thinks, on some level: Women are inferior -&#062; men acting “like women” are inferior -&#062; gay men threaten maleness -&#062; they must die.&quot;

This may be the case for some, but I would not make it a universal statement.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I buy the macho culture notion. It may be a part, but so is people just being people and believing that their own definition of &#8216;icky&#8217; constitutes some kind of moral definition of acceptability. Lack of tolerance, empathy and understanding of others is also fostered by an adversarial culture that categorizes things into simple good/bad dichotomies (I&#8217;m less certain about this in the context of the American culture, than I am of my first statement).</p>
<p>&#8220;A homophobe thinks, on some level: Women are inferior -&gt; men acting “like women” are inferior -&gt; gay men threaten maleness -&gt; they must die.&#8221;</p>
<p>This may be the case for some, but I would not make it a universal statement.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nemo		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2014/01/04/chris-kluwe-the-vikings-and-sports-privilege/#comment-477727</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nemo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jan 2014 23:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18403#comment-477727</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;It is not entirely clear to me why gayosity and all things related is so far down on the list of things to stop officially hating in American society.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I know what you mean. Religion is usually the justification, but I think it&#039;s seldom the &lt;i&gt;reason&lt;/i&gt;. So what is? Well, actually, I think I get that, too -- the reason is macho culture (or patriarchy, if you prefer). A homophobe thinks, on some level: &lt;i&gt;Women are inferior -&#062; men acting &quot;like women&quot; are inferior -&#062; gay men threaten maleness -&#062; they must die.&lt;/i&gt;

But what I &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; get is why these notions of male superiority and sharply-defined gender roles are so important to so many people. Obviously they run deep, and they&#039;ve been around a long time. But... why? What&#039;s the attraction? To me, it seems clear that a culture without these features would be more pleasant to live in, for both men and women.

I could blame the mindless ancestor-worship that underlies so much of conservative &quot;thought&quot; for perpetuating it, but that just moves the question to &quot;So why did our ancestors start this stupid shit?&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is not entirely clear to me why gayosity and all things related is so far down on the list of things to stop officially hating in American society.</p></blockquote>
<p>I know what you mean. Religion is usually the justification, but I think it&#8217;s seldom the <i>reason</i>. So what is? Well, actually, I think I get that, too &#8212; the reason is macho culture (or patriarchy, if you prefer). A homophobe thinks, on some level: <i>Women are inferior -&gt; men acting &#8220;like women&#8221; are inferior -&gt; gay men threaten maleness -&gt; they must die.</i></p>
<p>But what I <i>don&#8217;t</i> get is why these notions of male superiority and sharply-defined gender roles are so important to so many people. Obviously they run deep, and they&#8217;ve been around a long time. But&#8230; why? What&#8217;s the attraction? To me, it seems clear that a culture without these features would be more pleasant to live in, for both men and women.</p>
<p>I could blame the mindless ancestor-worship that underlies so much of conservative &#8220;thought&#8221; for perpetuating it, but that just moves the question to &#8220;So why did our ancestors start this stupid shit?&#8221;.</p>
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