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	Comments on: Faux Pause: climate contrarians lose favorite talking point	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Dan Aldridge		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Aldridge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2015 02:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Bill from Nevada: I think people are declining to answer you because your prose is very unclear. From what I can gather, you seem to think you have in your brilliance disproven the GHE with some kind of ontological argument? 

If so, you might want to note that even Denialist saints Roy Spencer and Judith Curry acknowledge the GHE. The former has in fact posed a rather difficult challenge to those like you attemting to disprove it. Contrarian climatologist saint Richard Lindzen calls those who deny the science on this &quot;nutty&quot;. 

But since you have got one up on even these experts in the actual field in question (something EE is not), maybe you&#039;d care to explain then why the Earth is not an iceball in space - as it once was known to have been? Our planet ought to be a heck of a lot cooler, minus the GHE - this is cutting edge nineteenth century science. Might want to look up the names Fourier and Tyndall - apparently they were either delusional or in on the conspiracy, in its very early stages.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill from Nevada: I think people are declining to answer you because your prose is very unclear. From what I can gather, you seem to think you have in your brilliance disproven the GHE with some kind of ontological argument? </p>
<p>If so, you might want to note that even Denialist saints Roy Spencer and Judith Curry acknowledge the GHE. The former has in fact posed a rather difficult challenge to those like you attemting to disprove it. Contrarian climatologist saint Richard Lindzen calls those who deny the science on this &#8220;nutty&#8221;. </p>
<p>But since you have got one up on even these experts in the actual field in question (something EE is not), maybe you&#8217;d care to explain then why the Earth is not an iceball in space &#8211; as it once was known to have been? Our planet ought to be a heck of a lot cooler, minus the GHE &#8211; this is cutting edge nineteenth century science. Might want to look up the names Fourier and Tyndall &#8211; apparently they were either delusional or in on the conspiracy, in its very early stages.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Yus		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To Bill the Troll from Nevada:

According to your ridiculous logic 
(spiced very nicely with 
insulting rhetoric to everyone but yourself 
and mysterious 
stanza-
formatting), 

it should be super-hot on the Moon - 

because 
The Moon 

Enjoys the same irradiation as the Earth, 
but 
is not immersed &quot;in frigid nitrogen/oxygen coolant&quot;.
(as you choose to call 
our precious Atmosphere 
for some obscure reason.)

Yours,

Y.
(M.Sc. in environmental science, 
Ph.D. in statistics)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Bill the Troll from Nevada:</p>
<p>According to your ridiculous logic<br />
(spiced very nicely with<br />
insulting rhetoric to everyone but yourself<br />
and mysterious<br />
stanza-<br />
formatting), </p>
<p>it should be super-hot on the Moon &#8211; </p>
<p>because<br />
The Moon </p>
<p>Enjoys the same irradiation as the Earth,<br />
but<br />
is not immersed &#8220;in frigid nitrogen/oxygen coolant&#8221;.<br />
(as you choose to call<br />
our precious Atmosphere<br />
for some obscure reason.)</p>
<p>Yours,</p>
<p>Y.<br />
(M.Sc. in environmental science,<br />
Ph.D. in statistics)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill from Nevada		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490185</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill from Nevada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490185</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Have some friends explain it to you Brian. 

It&#039;s not complicated.
 it&#039;s first principles: 
fundamentals of your faith.
Specifically reduced to basics, 
for you who believed in it. 


You are an activist .

You understand. 
You saw what I said. 
Your hands got real still.
You tried to think of something.
You are an Electronic Engineer.
You have spoken, read, extensively.
You made your most intelligent response.
You claimed that you had suddenly developed 
sudden onset reading comprehension impediment.
--------------
That doesn&#039;t say too much about your faith in the science.
That doesn&#039;t say too much about your faith in the basics. 
That doesn&#039;t say too much about your faith in the heater.
That doesn&#039;t say too much about your faith in the &quot;Yes!&quot;
That doesn&#039;t seem to be in your power to utter lest you 
develop sudden reading comprehension impediment. 
---------------
&quot;I developed a sudden reading impediment&quot;
is your answer. 

Go ahead Brian. Try to answer the questions. 
I re-wrote them so an activist can understand.



 (1)  This is about whether you understand the effect of a cold thermally conductive bath, 
on an object immersed in it, after being heated to full, stable temperature, in vacuum. 

The earth is a sphere.
The earth is spinning. 
The earth is in vacuum.
The earth is illuminated. 
The earth is heated by it. 

Can immersion of the sphere  
in frigid nitrogen/oxygen coolant
make every single surface sensor report temp rise of average 91F/33C?


Do you Brian Angliss 
believe possible,
immersion of an object 
heated to full temperature in vacuum 
into frigid coolant 
causing sensors on it&#039;s surface,
to report temperature rise averaging 90F/30C?  

Your claim is sudden development 
of rapid-onset reading impediment. 
also known as &quot;I got struck blind.&quot;

I see it tried all the time. 
We all do.

Crying out you were suddenly struck down by
rapid-onset reading impediment is one of 
the most common  Green House Gasser 
bluff/fold/run techniques
from your Evangelists 
Brian.

They have to. 

(2) Second question&#039;s also fundamental Magic Gas.
 
Do you believe possible, heating a sphere with light, 
to then suspend reflective molecules between light &#038; sphere
causing 
sphere surface 
energy sensors
to indicate more energy arriving with 20% less arriving 
than when there was 20% more energy arriving?

Yes or No

The last question&#039;s an extension of the second: 

Do you believe after blocking 20% energy to sensors 
you can add enough reflective H2O/CO2  to block 25% 
causing surface heat sensors to report 
more energy arriving when 75% does,
than before, when  80% was arriving?  

Whenever you regain the capacity to process language Brian
Either &quot;Oh Yes I do! believe in that!&quot;  Or  &quot;No I don&#039;t believe in ANY that.&quot; 

Either way it&#039;s obvious to everyone who had to claim 
&quot;being struck blind&quot; as the reason you declined to answer.

=======
Brian Angliss
December 22, 2013
Bill, I’m an EE  ... I can’t understand what you&#039;re saying.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have some friends explain it to you Brian. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not complicated.<br />
 it&#8217;s first principles:<br />
fundamentals of your faith.<br />
Specifically reduced to basics,<br />
for you who believed in it. </p>
<p>You are an activist .</p>
<p>You understand.<br />
You saw what I said.<br />
Your hands got real still.<br />
You tried to think of something.<br />
You are an Electronic Engineer.<br />
You have spoken, read, extensively.<br />
You made your most intelligent response.<br />
You claimed that you had suddenly developed<br />
sudden onset reading comprehension impediment.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
That doesn&#8217;t say too much about your faith in the science.<br />
That doesn&#8217;t say too much about your faith in the basics.<br />
That doesn&#8217;t say too much about your faith in the heater.<br />
That doesn&#8217;t say too much about your faith in the &#8220;Yes!&#8221;<br />
That doesn&#8217;t seem to be in your power to utter lest you<br />
develop sudden reading comprehension impediment.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
&#8220;I developed a sudden reading impediment&#8221;<br />
is your answer. </p>
<p>Go ahead Brian. Try to answer the questions.<br />
I re-wrote them so an activist can understand.</p>
<p> (1)  This is about whether you understand the effect of a cold thermally conductive bath,<br />
on an object immersed in it, after being heated to full, stable temperature, in vacuum. </p>
<p>The earth is a sphere.<br />
The earth is spinning.<br />
The earth is in vacuum.<br />
The earth is illuminated.<br />
The earth is heated by it. </p>
<p>Can immersion of the sphere<br />
in frigid nitrogen/oxygen coolant<br />
make every single surface sensor report temp rise of average 91F/33C?</p>
<p>Do you Brian Angliss<br />
believe possible,<br />
immersion of an object<br />
heated to full temperature in vacuum<br />
into frigid coolant<br />
causing sensors on it&#8217;s surface,<br />
to report temperature rise averaging 90F/30C?  </p>
<p>Your claim is sudden development<br />
of rapid-onset reading impediment.<br />
also known as &#8220;I got struck blind.&#8221;</p>
<p>I see it tried all the time.<br />
We all do.</p>
<p>Crying out you were suddenly struck down by<br />
rapid-onset reading impediment is one of<br />
the most common  Green House Gasser<br />
bluff/fold/run techniques<br />
from your Evangelists<br />
Brian.</p>
<p>They have to. </p>
<p>(2) Second question&#8217;s also fundamental Magic Gas.</p>
<p>Do you believe possible, heating a sphere with light,<br />
to then suspend reflective molecules between light &amp; sphere<br />
causing<br />
sphere surface<br />
energy sensors<br />
to indicate more energy arriving with 20% less arriving<br />
than when there was 20% more energy arriving?</p>
<p>Yes or No</p>
<p>The last question&#8217;s an extension of the second: </p>
<p>Do you believe after blocking 20% energy to sensors<br />
you can add enough reflective H2O/CO2  to block 25%<br />
causing surface heat sensors to report<br />
more energy arriving when 75% does,<br />
than before, when  80% was arriving?  </p>
<p>Whenever you regain the capacity to process language Brian<br />
Either &#8220;Oh Yes I do! believe in that!&#8221;  Or  &#8220;No I don&#8217;t believe in ANY that.&#8221; </p>
<p>Either way it&#8217;s obvious to everyone who had to claim<br />
&#8220;being struck blind&#8221; as the reason you declined to answer.</p>
<p>=======<br />
Brian Angliss<br />
December 22, 2013<br />
Bill, I’m an EE  &#8230; I can’t understand what you&#8217;re saying.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sylvester B		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvester B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 01:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Brrr. Stay close to the fire!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brrr. Stay close to the fire!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 19:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The ocean has been absorbing over 90% of the heat all along.  Over time periods of 10 years or so the amount the oceans absorb changes as the nature of the interaction between the sea surface and the atmosphere changes (things like ENSO).  It happens that over the last several years there has probably been more going into the ocean than average, and we can anticipate that this will go up  and down over time.  

There has not been regular monitoring of deep ocean temperatures at the level of the surface (sea surface, air, ice).  But there are some data that go back in time and more recently there has been an increase in the amount of data, but nothing is ever going to match a gazillion weather stations on the surface and satellite data for the atmosphere and sea surface temperature. 

I&#039;m about 290 miles south of International Falls.  It is zero here now, but over the weekend we&#039;ll see temps about 25 or more below zero.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ocean has been absorbing over 90% of the heat all along.  Over time periods of 10 years or so the amount the oceans absorb changes as the nature of the interaction between the sea surface and the atmosphere changes (things like ENSO).  It happens that over the last several years there has probably been more going into the ocean than average, and we can anticipate that this will go up  and down over time.  </p>
<p>There has not been regular monitoring of deep ocean temperatures at the level of the surface (sea surface, air, ice).  But there are some data that go back in time and more recently there has been an increase in the amount of data, but nothing is ever going to match a gazillion weather stations on the surface and satellite data for the atmosphere and sea surface temperature. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m about 290 miles south of International Falls.  It is zero here now, but over the weekend we&#8217;ll see temps about 25 or more below zero.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sylvester B		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvester B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Know--&#062;known.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Know&#8211;&gt;known.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Sylvester B		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvester B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Greg. All very interesting, although I still have problems working with anomalies vs actual temperatures. The earth does continue to warm up, even I can deduce that from the anomalies. But as to heat now being absorbed in the deep ocean...why now? What is so different now as opposed to twenty or a hundred years ago? Do the oceanologists have an explanation? El Ninos have been know since...well, almost forever.

BTW, how close are you to International Falls? Weather report says it set a new record something like minus 42deg F. You are probably catching some of the Arctic air as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Greg. All very interesting, although I still have problems working with anomalies vs actual temperatures. The earth does continue to warm up, even I can deduce that from the anomalies. But as to heat now being absorbed in the deep ocean&#8230;why now? What is so different now as opposed to twenty or a hundred years ago? Do the oceanologists have an explanation? El Ninos have been know since&#8230;well, almost forever.</p>
<p>BTW, how close are you to International Falls? Weather report says it set a new record something like minus 42deg F. You are probably catching some of the Arctic air as well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 16:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a discussion of models:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models-intermediate.htm

There is a graph that shows numerous models and actual temperatures that you may be thinking of, showing the actual temperatures within the error margin but for later years being on the low side.  That is nothing remarkable.  More recent research referred to here in the original post has caused those surface temperature readings to be adjusted ... once previously missing data was added in ... to be more in the middle.  

The bigger issue, though, is that the surface temperatures as a whole are currently under-estimating global warming because the ocean has been eating up more heat than usual.  We can expect that over the next year the ocean may stop eating extra heat and go to average, or perhaps even start releasing more heat, depending on what the ENSO does.  Some predictions show it at 50-50 likely to go to neutral vs. El Nino, others suggest a somewhat higher likelihood of El Nino, but this is hard to predict and we have to wait and see.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a discussion of models:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models-intermediate.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models-intermediate.htm</a></p>
<p>There is a graph that shows numerous models and actual temperatures that you may be thinking of, showing the actual temperatures within the error margin but for later years being on the low side.  That is nothing remarkable.  More recent research referred to here in the original post has caused those surface temperature readings to be adjusted &#8230; once previously missing data was added in &#8230; to be more in the middle.  </p>
<p>The bigger issue, though, is that the surface temperatures as a whole are currently under-estimating global warming because the ocean has been eating up more heat than usual.  We can expect that over the next year the ocean may stop eating extra heat and go to average, or perhaps even start releasing more heat, depending on what the ENSO does.  Some predictions show it at 50-50 likely to go to neutral vs. El Nino, others suggest a somewhat higher likelihood of El Nino, but this is hard to predict and we have to wait and see.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sylvester B		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvester B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 16:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg: I can&#039;t find the graph I was relying on in stating that the IPCC can&#039;t predict temperatures too well. It was (as I recall) a display of the various models as lines in a matrix of temperature versus CO2 ppm in the atmosphere. Actual readings of temperature were also shown, in a line that was below almost all of the models (I seem to recall that one of the models was close enough to put the readings in the error band). Maybe you are familiar with that one and can help me find it.

BTW: HAPPY NEW YEAR!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: I can&#8217;t find the graph I was relying on in stating that the IPCC can&#8217;t predict temperatures too well. It was (as I recall) a display of the various models as lines in a matrix of temperature versus CO2 ppm in the atmosphere. Actual readings of temperature were also shown, in a line that was below almost all of the models (I seem to recall that one of the models was close enough to put the readings in the error band). Maybe you are familiar with that one and can help me find it.</p>
<p>BTW: HAPPY NEW YEAR!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sylvester B		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/12/14/faux-pause-climate-contrarians-lose-favorite-talking-point/#comment-490178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvester B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Dec 2013 16:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=18351#comment-490178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great! I have a few small dinos that I have kept for years..tricerotopsians and others...would love to see them decked out with feathers! And combs.

Merry Christmas to you and yours. Hope Santa was good to the little ones.
JimB]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great! I have a few small dinos that I have kept for years..tricerotopsians and others&#8230;would love to see them decked out with feathers! And combs.</p>
<p>Merry Christmas to you and yours. Hope Santa was good to the little ones.<br />
JimB</p>
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