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	Comments on: Trayvon  vs. George: Which one would you execute?	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/</link>
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		<title>
		By: ron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488703</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 03:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488703</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Dean #24
What am I misstating? 

I&#039;ve given the transcript of the call where the dispatcher asks twice what the suspect is doing / which way is he running, the suggestion that the dispatcher / police don&#039;t NEED GZ to follow the suspect, the video testimony of the dispatcher denying that he gave an ORDER.  (http://tinyurl.com/kzd8rec 1:18 - 2:10...the lawyer says &quot;it isn&#039;t necessary?&quot; the dispatcher agrees) 

What is your evidence that I am misrepresenting what happened?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dean #24<br />
What am I misstating? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve given the transcript of the call where the dispatcher asks twice what the suspect is doing / which way is he running, the suggestion that the dispatcher / police don&#8217;t NEED GZ to follow the suspect, the video testimony of the dispatcher denying that he gave an ORDER.  (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/kzd8rec" rel="nofollow ugc">http://tinyurl.com/kzd8rec</a> 1:18 &#8211; 2:10&#8230;the lawyer says &#8220;it isn&#8217;t necessary?&#8221; the dispatcher agrees) </p>
<p>What is your evidence that I am misrepresenting what happened?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Sanders		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Sanders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 23:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[mark

you are right. in the OJ case, he murdered his wife by almost cutting her head clean off. It was not self defense at all. Just plain jealous rage in its finest hour. 

Calle

white males have little to do with it. location has everything to do with it. in a state like new york mass, or california, one would be convicted of a crime just by saying the word GUN. far left places are more likely to punish the victim and reward the criminal than others. Alos, good lawyers help. Zimmerman had god lawyers that knew their stuff.

look at it like this. The martin family&#039;s lawyers failed to convince the jury that Zimmerman was guilty. They failed to prove within a reasonable doubt if you will. In order to win a case, you have to have a good lawyer, ex- OJ simpson.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mark</p>
<p>you are right. in the OJ case, he murdered his wife by almost cutting her head clean off. It was not self defense at all. Just plain jealous rage in its finest hour. </p>
<p>Calle</p>
<p>white males have little to do with it. location has everything to do with it. in a state like new york mass, or california, one would be convicted of a crime just by saying the word GUN. far left places are more likely to punish the victim and reward the criminal than others. Alos, good lawyers help. Zimmerman had god lawyers that knew their stuff.</p>
<p>look at it like this. The martin family&#8217;s lawyers failed to convince the jury that Zimmerman was guilty. They failed to prove within a reasonable doubt if you will. In order to win a case, you have to have a good lawyer, ex- OJ simpson.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yet Ron you continue to misstate something simple. Considering how you tried to put not only words but a conclusion in my mouth I am not surprised.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet Ron you continue to misstate something simple. Considering how you tried to put not only words but a conclusion in my mouth I am not surprised.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Calli Arcale		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Calli Arcale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kevin:
&lt;blockquote&gt;When OJ simpson killed his white wife, you didn;t see hoards of white people in the streets after he got away with with it and it was a much worse crime than this thing was.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True.  Crimes against women by their husbands seldom see protests in the US when they go unpunished, and his case is not unique.  And there are marital cases more apropos to the Zimmerman verdict.  In Florida, a woman has just been sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a warning shot in her home to try to scare off her abusive husband.  She attempted to use the same defense as Zimmerman, but did not prevail.  So, I am forced to conclude that in Florida, you have the right to defend yourself, but only if your case is high profile enough to attract good lawyers, and it probably also helps if you&#039;re a white male.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin:</p>
<blockquote><p>When OJ simpson killed his white wife, you didn;t see hoards of white people in the streets after he got away with with it and it was a much worse crime than this thing was.</p></blockquote>
<p>True.  Crimes against women by their husbands seldom see protests in the US when they go unpunished, and his case is not unique.  And there are marital cases more apropos to the Zimmerman verdict.  In Florida, a woman has just been sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a warning shot in her home to try to scare off her abusive husband.  She attempted to use the same defense as Zimmerman, but did not prevail.  So, I am forced to conclude that in Florida, you have the right to defend yourself, but only if your case is high profile enough to attract good lawyers, and it probably also helps if you&#8217;re a white male.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark P		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488699</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488699</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kevin Sanders - My question is this: what would have happened had a black man with a gun in a car followed a white boy, exited the car, engaged in a confrontation with the white boy, and then shot him dead? I have no doubt that the black man would be convicted if the facts were exactly the same as in this case, only the roles of the people in question had been reversed. And yes, with the same jury.

The OJ case is a red herring. It&#039;s not remotely like the George Zimmerman case.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Sanders &#8211; My question is this: what would have happened had a black man with a gun in a car followed a white boy, exited the car, engaged in a confrontation with the white boy, and then shot him dead? I have no doubt that the black man would be convicted if the facts were exactly the same as in this case, only the roles of the people in question had been reversed. And yes, with the same jury.</p>
<p>The OJ case is a red herring. It&#8217;s not remotely like the George Zimmerman case.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@#20 Dean
I&#039;m willing to discuss the record with you, if you&#039;re willing to accept the testimony of the parties at trial. You&#039;re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#20 Dean<br />
I&#8217;m willing to discuss the record with you, if you&#8217;re willing to accept the testimony of the parties at trial. You&#8217;re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488697</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 00:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488697</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ron, the record doesn&#039;t agree with you. You are lying. You are also asserting other things without support. Where have I said anything about the verdict?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, the record doesn&#8217;t agree with you. You are lying. You are also asserting other things without support. Where have I said anything about the verdict?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Sanders		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488696</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Sanders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488696</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ mark p

the roles have been reversed. Remember OJ simpson?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ mark p</p>
<p>the roles have been reversed. Remember OJ simpson?</p>
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		<title>
		By: ron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488695</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488695</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg,
&#039;
If you&#039;d like to retry the case, I&#039;m game.
Testimony and the non-emergency call show that GZ was following TM (but they didn&#039;t know each other) by driving in his truck. Eventually TM realizes he&#039;s being followed and comes up to GZ&#039;s truck (not illegal)...then continues on his way.

When GZ hung up with the dispatcher, GZ and the DIspatcher thought the event was finished. 
You say GZ confronted TM...GZ&#039;s account (which didn&#039;t change over the multiple statements he voluntarily gave to police in the days after the shooting) is that he was confronted and sucker punched by TM (although this isn&#039;t in evidence at the trial, there are multiple instances where TM bragged about such activities). 

Having said all of that: A) If I am being followed, I&#039;m going to go somewhere safer (but probably not home, why would I take you there if I&#039;m not sure you know where I live?) B) If I am &quot;confronted&quot; by another man, I attempt to de-escalate and disengage. C) It may have been wise to activate a recording device when being followed. D) I would not confront / throw punches. E) Perhaps I would phone the place I was en route to and have someone come towards me in order to intercept any following. (Modern phones are powerful tools)

I&#039;m not sure how you arrive at GZ doing the confronting, as there is no evidence of this. If you&#039;d like to say that GZ jumped out of a tree at TM and scuffed his knuckles on the pavement before shooting him, you can...but there&#039;s not evidence to back that up.

I appreciate the somewhat tactical question, though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,<br />
&#8216;<br />
If you&#8217;d like to retry the case, I&#8217;m game.<br />
Testimony and the non-emergency call show that GZ was following TM (but they didn&#8217;t know each other) by driving in his truck. Eventually TM realizes he&#8217;s being followed and comes up to GZ&#8217;s truck (not illegal)&#8230;then continues on his way.</p>
<p>When GZ hung up with the dispatcher, GZ and the DIspatcher thought the event was finished.<br />
You say GZ confronted TM&#8230;GZ&#8217;s account (which didn&#8217;t change over the multiple statements he voluntarily gave to police in the days after the shooting) is that he was confronted and sucker punched by TM (although this isn&#8217;t in evidence at the trial, there are multiple instances where TM bragged about such activities). </p>
<p>Having said all of that: A) If I am being followed, I&#8217;m going to go somewhere safer (but probably not home, why would I take you there if I&#8217;m not sure you know where I live?) B) If I am &#8220;confronted&#8221; by another man, I attempt to de-escalate and disengage. C) It may have been wise to activate a recording device when being followed. D) I would not confront / throw punches. E) Perhaps I would phone the place I was en route to and have someone come towards me in order to intercept any following. (Modern phones are powerful tools)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how you arrive at GZ doing the confronting, as there is no evidence of this. If you&#8217;d like to say that GZ jumped out of a tree at TM and scuffed his knuckles on the pavement before shooting him, you can&#8230;but there&#8217;s not evidence to back that up.</p>
<p>I appreciate the somewhat tactical question, though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-vs-george-which-one-would-you-execute/#comment-488694</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=17166#comment-488694</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No, ron, when I asked you what you would do, I mean if you were Trayvon.  What would you have done if George Zimmerman confronted you while on your way home from the shop?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, ron, when I asked you what you would do, I mean if you were Trayvon.  What would you have done if George Zimmerman confronted you while on your way home from the shop?</p>
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