Comments on: Arctic Ice Loss https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/ Mon, 04 Mar 2013 09:26:36 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.8 By: William Hughes-Games https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486192 Mon, 04 Mar 2013 09:26:36 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486192 At present our climate zones are creeping northward (in the northern hemisphere) at about 4km per year as the sinking air over the Arctic weakens and with it the polar Hadley cell. What happens when the Arctic ocean is ice free, say, in July and vastly more heat is absorbed by the Arctic ocean. Will we not then see rising air over the Arctic, reversing the Polar Hadley cell and causing climate zones to lurch northward. The November comments on the nsidc site indicated that this had happened last fall.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486191 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:41:19 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486191 Jane, I’m glad you asked! I think (but I’m not sure) that you can change your icon. I’m not sure how. See how my icon is obviously something I’ve selected? I think the grumpy octagon is incentive.

Note that Andy Lee Robinson has an icon obviously of his choosing. So, it must be possible. Maybe it’s gravitar.

]]> By: jane https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486190 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:29:26 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486190 And on a competely unrelated and shallow subject, I’d like to know how (and why!) Scienceblogs decided to start accompanying all my comments with a picture of a grumpy blue octagon. 🙂

]]> By: jane https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486189 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:26:51 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486189 Re: global warming vs. climate change – the former is easily twisted by the Drudges of the world who imply that every cold snap or snowstorm has disproved it. As the post notes, there’s reason to believe that the Arctic ice melting may make winter weather worse for parts of northern North America. “Climate change” much better gets across the idea that if the climate is in ANY way drastically different from what you remember it being in the same area when you were a kid, there’s a good chance that human action has something to do with it.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486188 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:50:13 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486188 In reply to Wiley Wayne.

Actually lately I’ve been preferring the term “climate science deniers” because it is usually exactly what I mean. You can’t specify what exactly deniers deny because part of the strategy they use is to constantly change that.

]]> By: Wiley Wayne https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486187 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:34:54 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486187 No one can deny that the climate, or climate change, is warming the Arctic. What is really meant by “climate change deniers?” Are they those who deny that increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 is the major force driving this change. How about the phrase “CO2 climate change” deniers? Hmm? This phrase then shoves aside the effects of Arctic ice loss, deforestation, rising levels of methane, sea level rise and all the other unstated man induced climate disturbances. I like that: “climate disturbance” deniers.

]]> By: gwen https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486186 Sat, 02 Mar 2013 05:52:18 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486186 It may not happen in three years, but I am sure it will happen in my lifetime, and I am close to retirement age…

]]> By: Delurked Lurker https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486185 Sat, 02 Mar 2013 02:16:31 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486185 “In a few years, the Arctic will be ice free during the summer.”

Nothing like sticking your neck out like that Greg. I am surprised you were so bold. If you are wrong the skeptics will crucify you.

Can’t wait to see what happens in three years hence 😉

]]> By: Andy Lee Robinson https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486184 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:13:50 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486184 Greg, thanks for your encouraging feedback, again! You were the first person I showed the spiral to on Twitter – your reaction also spoke “volumes” 🙂

I had just uploaded the image to a share folder, mentioned it casually on Neven’s blog, and caused another kind of meltdown – it has shocked a lot of people, especially since Cryosat 2 backed up the PIOMAS data. Serendipity came together and Joe Romm did a piece on it and I produced the ice cube comparison image to go with it, updated on a map of New York to scale.
http://haveland.com/share/arctic-sea-ice-min-volume-comparison-1979-2012-v3.jpg
The volume of missing ice is 1.1x the volume of Lake Superior – that is an awful lot of energy.

The Death Spiral became a Viral Spiral and has poked a lot of hives… with all the thousands of hits I’m getting and the millions of views that it has had on Facebook and many other referring sites, it seems to be having an impact. Now looks like I’m going to have to finally update my decades-old website, and devote a section for it. I’ll take care of url redirections.

I just had a flash of inspiration and found it hiding in plain sight – it’s memorable and yes, it is as scary as hell – once the sea ice goes, there’ll be nothing to clamp down sea temperature except cloud cover, and we can only hope it’ll help enough, but it doesn’t seem likely now. I think it drives home the magnitude of the task humanity has to reverse course.

I also want to credit Jim Pettit for his inspiration and dedication to maintaining has awesome array of scary graphs: https://sites.google.com/site/pettitclimategraphs/
He subsequently produced a version of the Death Spiral in a different format by decade for September averages. It is no more comforting.

Should put paid to the ridiculous response about record Antarctic sea ice – Stating that global sea ice is normal, is like stating that your body temperature is normal while your legs are thawing and your head’s on fire!

NASA tweeted it, and it had several retweets, including one from Professor Michael Mann, somehow really made it get real:
https://twitter.com/NASA_EO/status/306449677409214467

There will be another version in a week or two as February’s data is released, with logical filename of course, but it definitely needs a landing page, and a means of updating it automatically.

Peter Sinclair also did a piece on how my PIOMAS animation came about, if anyone is curious:
http://climatecrocks.com/2013/02/24/the-making-of-a-classic-climate-graph/

My email address is in the image, so far mysteriously quiet… not even one hate-mail from a disgruntled sick puppet!

I have much still to do, but I hope it’ll make a difference in ending this silly and unsupportable trench warfare. It has gone on long enough.

Regards, Andy.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/02/27/arctic-ice-loss/#comment-486183 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:58:46 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15992#comment-486183 Andy, I’d like to put your graphics related to the arctic and/or links to them on my site in my series on Climate Change Graphics but when I went to the main site I could not find a clean way to reference them or get permission or whatever to do so. What can I do and what link(s) and/or text should I include? I love those graphics, they are among the best I’ve seen among all the climate change related graphics in that they are perfectly accurate, totally clear, and of course, scary as hell.

]]>