Comments on: The Irony of the Projectile https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:40:17 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.8 By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484961 Mon, 07 Jan 2013 01:48:20 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484961 There’s been quite a bit of research done on what the hands and arms (and shoulder) need to be like to make stone tools, use them, throw things, throw spears, etc.

I don’t think the work at this stage is conclusive for one main reason: I can’t personally think of an example of a research team investigating the question “what could this joint do” rather than “how do I show that this joint does what I think it does” or “how can I show that this joint does something different than the person I’m annoyed with said it did”

… not to be too cynical, but … this is actually how the process often proceeds. Eventually methods will allow the data to become cheap and easy to get and some serious graduate students will do what needs to be done, which is to investigate all of the previously proposed hypotheses and a few new ones using a handful of different approaches, and we can then put plausible limits on the different species.

If the required resolution turns out to be Pliocene or Miocene (i.e., if we need to know not which Homo sp could or could not do what, but rather, for earlier hominids) then we may be in trouble again as there is some confusion as to which heads go on which bodies. But that is being resolved as well.

]]> By: marcus https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484960 Mon, 07 Jan 2013 01:08:09 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484960 im not a gun lover but i plan to own one or two. i wish they did not exist but they do and they always will, with increased gun control then less none criminals will have guns to protect them selves or deter those who do not care about gun control laws. it is like what they say pandora’s box is open you can not put the evil back in. what you can do is get rid of this whole mystique on guns, that make people who have them and intend to use them in a criminally violent way feel untouchable, because they know that most people are either afraid of guns or believe that guns lead to violence or attract it, so they dont allow them in there homes which makes them comparable to sheep praying that the wolves will not notice them.

]]> By: Keith M Ellis https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484959 Mon, 07 Jan 2013 00:35:00 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484959 Throwing and catching are examples of very impressive implicit physics calculations being done rapidly. I don’t mean to imply anything like actual computation, of course, but rather very good, personal examples of how evolution “solves” complicated physical problems posed by our evolutionary environments. We tend to think that when we accomplish these things, we’re doing so in some way similar to the generalized, abstracted way that we do in science. (And, yeah, in some very deep implicit sense, and within a narrow context, we are.) But we’re more likely doing so in ways similar to that seen in with genetic algorithms and such — very efficiently and accurate within a predictable, narrow domain, and well-nigh unpredictable and erroneous outside it. I’m curious about how well astronauts and such perform these kinds of tasks over time in non-earthly environments. How much plasticity and learning is there and isn’t there?

Also, as mentioned in the post, it seems like biomechanics would have a lot to reveal about the likely evolutionary history of throwing — wouldn’t certain structural changes in the hands, arms, and shoulders be very prominent in an environment which strongly selects for throwing ability?

]]> By: daedalus2u https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484958 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:33:59 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484958 The first projectiles were probably just rocks.

Fist sized rocks are a formidable projectile against essentially all solitary predators.

In the open, a group of a few people with spears could protect a person throwing rocks from single predators very well. I suspect that stealing kills from solitary predators with this technique may have been a significant hunting strategy in Africa, maybe not so much elsewhere.

]]> By: Mal Adapted https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484957 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 03:15:07 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484957 The NG article included an evocative artist’s conception of a group of male Neandertals trying to kill an enormous aurochs mired in a bog, up close and personal, with short stabbing spears. One guy stands aside holding his freshly broken arm, while another takes a hoof to the crotch. The auroch’s eyes glow demoniacally as it swings its head toward a third attacker. Whew! Not like shooting a deer with from a safe distance with a rifle, or even a bow and arrow.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484956 Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:45:27 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484956 Exactly, that work was done by Trikaus, mainly. First he said this:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0305440395900136

Then he said this:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030544031200297X

In some ways the first paper is better. The logic behind the second paper is flawed, I think. Having N’s and contemporary modern humans be similar should not cause one to assume the original conclusion is wrong becuase you believe they must be different. Rather, it should cause one to conclude that they are similar.

]]> By: Mal Adapted https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484955 Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:34:29 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484955 Greg:

Some have suggested that this violence is from close quarter combat between individuals, while others have suggested it is from a hands-on approach to hunting where animals were wrangled to the ground and dispatched.

Years ago, a spread on human evolution in National Geographic mentioned the resemblance of some Neanderthal skeletal injuries to those incurred by modern rodeo contestants. The suggestion was that like rodeo contestants, Neanderthals got thrown off big animals a lot.

]]> By: Bradley K. Odens https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484954 Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:08:06 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484954 Weapons and conflict cost billions of dollars and millions of innocent lives. It will always be part of our society, because we are animals before we are angels. Our best hope for a future without self inflicted extermination is to reduce the amount of conflict with each other and focus on the fact that we has people are a deliberate or accidental miracle with limited resources including time and violence is a waste of most importantly life. Peace = survival, a symbiotic life.

]]> By: “The only thing… | not my diary this year https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484953 Sat, 05 Jan 2013 20:51:59 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484953 […] http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/ […]

]]> By: Jeffrey https://gregladen.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-irony-of-the-projectile/#comment-484952 Sat, 05 Jan 2013 06:53:36 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=15218#comment-484952 Fascinating how projectiles may have helped us expand our social circles and helped build more complex models of thought. On Orangutang Island. I’ve observed Hamlet, the Alpha Male, charge a rival and throw an orange or rock just pass their head to distract him then run by and slap the rivals head. Too funny!!!!

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