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	Comments on: Critique of Rebecca Watson&#039;s Talk: Haters gonna hate.	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2013 22:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496647&quot;&gt;Glenn&lt;/a&gt;.

Funny how your comments starts out as a straight forward and reasonable (though I dont&#039; agree with it) opinion. Then you mention that you went out of your way to silence Rebecca.  Then as your comment continues it starts to get more and more hateful and finally you are telling me, the host of your attack-comment, that I&#039;ve lost my mind.

So yeah, you&#039;re an example of the hate, Glen. You almost held it in there for a while but it ate its way through your rather weak facade and spilled right out there onto your keyboard.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496647">Glenn</a>.</p>
<p>Funny how your comments starts out as a straight forward and reasonable (though I dont&#8217; agree with it) opinion. Then you mention that you went out of your way to silence Rebecca.  Then as your comment continues it starts to get more and more hateful and finally you are telling me, the host of your attack-comment, that I&#8217;ve lost my mind.</p>
<p>So yeah, you&#8217;re an example of the hate, Glen. You almost held it in there for a while but it ate its way through your rather weak facade and spilled right out there onto your keyboard.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Glenn		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496647</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2013 21:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496647</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s so interesting the &quot;sorting&quot; being done here. I don&#039;t like Rebecca Watson and didn&#039;t long before the elevator incident. It was because of the content of her contributions on SGU. It&#039;s easily detectable that she really never studied science. By this point she apes the pose, but really, her content and insights and commentary were never that interesting.

She also would introduce her politics into the discourse rather regularly, in a biased way. She wouldn&#039;t say, &quot;Hey, this is my political view&quot; but would rather engage in the kind of weak polemic one finds on say HuffPo. She did do some interesting activism stuff, particularly on anti-vax and drumming up more women skeptics. But there are other women skeptics. And I never heard another one that I didn&#039;t like. Just her because of lack of knowledge and politicization.

I made this complaint to Steve Novella intensely via email and I bet that I&#039;m part of the &quot;hate&quot; you talk about. But I didn&#039;t hate her, rather I simply didn&#039;t enjoy her low quality skeptical work and overt politicization of topics

And then the elevator thing happened. And she&#039;s revealed herself to be thuggish, willing to cause hysteria in others for now reason, to be very deceptive and divisive, and I&#039;m not surprised. That&#039;s all she&#039;s got, don&#039;t you understand? Without her &quot;feminist&quot; identity, she never gets on a skeptic panel to discuss anything.

And anyone who thinks her &quot;talk&quot; on evo psych approaches scientific or serious is truly stupid. Get a grip, you&#039;ve lost your mind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s so interesting the &#8220;sorting&#8221; being done here. I don&#8217;t like Rebecca Watson and didn&#8217;t long before the elevator incident. It was because of the content of her contributions on SGU. It&#8217;s easily detectable that she really never studied science. By this point she apes the pose, but really, her content and insights and commentary were never that interesting.</p>
<p>She also would introduce her politics into the discourse rather regularly, in a biased way. She wouldn&#8217;t say, &#8220;Hey, this is my political view&#8221; but would rather engage in the kind of weak polemic one finds on say HuffPo. She did do some interesting activism stuff, particularly on anti-vax and drumming up more women skeptics. But there are other women skeptics. And I never heard another one that I didn&#8217;t like. Just her because of lack of knowledge and politicization.</p>
<p>I made this complaint to Steve Novella intensely via email and I bet that I&#8217;m part of the &#8220;hate&#8221; you talk about. But I didn&#8217;t hate her, rather I simply didn&#8217;t enjoy her low quality skeptical work and overt politicization of topics</p>
<p>And then the elevator thing happened. And she&#8217;s revealed herself to be thuggish, willing to cause hysteria in others for now reason, to be very deceptive and divisive, and I&#8217;m not surprised. That&#8217;s all she&#8217;s got, don&#8217;t you understand? Without her &#8220;feminist&#8221; identity, she never gets on a skeptic panel to discuss anything.</p>
<p>And anyone who thinks her &#8220;talk&#8221; on evo psych approaches scientific or serious is truly stupid. Get a grip, you&#8217;ve lost your mind.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496646</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 20:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496646</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave, on some other day you would be demanding that a remark made in passing be replaced with a peer reviewed journal article, therefore your argument is invalid.

Her rhetoric is in fact not all that relevant to the overall field of evolutoinary psychology, if that is what you mean.  But that is not what her talk is about and that is not whom she was speaking to.

No, do take her seriously.  But be a little smarter about what it is ... what this talk is and why she gave it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, on some other day you would be demanding that a remark made in passing be replaced with a peer reviewed journal article, therefore your argument is invalid.</p>
<p>Her rhetoric is in fact not all that relevant to the overall field of evolutoinary psychology, if that is what you mean.  But that is not what her talk is about and that is not whom she was speaking to.</p>
<p>No, do take her seriously.  But be a little smarter about what it is &#8230; what this talk is and why she gave it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Allen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496645</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Allen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496645</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t realise that claims made in speech were somehow different to claims made in writing. If I make a claim in speech that a scientist said what a journalist actually wrote, how is that different to writing that a scientist said what a journalist wrote?

Nor do I feel that I am overlooking the obvious when pointing out that her rhetoric is, at best, irrelevent to the subject she pretends criticism of and, at worst, simply misleading.

So yes, we agree that she should have prefixed her talk with &quot;hey, I&#039;m just riffing here, don&#039;t take me seriously&quot;. That might have spared me the effort. As is, she did not, and people have hailed her talk as saying something pertinent on the subject - which it does not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t realise that claims made in speech were somehow different to claims made in writing. If I make a claim in speech that a scientist said what a journalist actually wrote, how is that different to writing that a scientist said what a journalist wrote?</p>
<p>Nor do I feel that I am overlooking the obvious when pointing out that her rhetoric is, at best, irrelevent to the subject she pretends criticism of and, at worst, simply misleading.</p>
<p>So yes, we agree that she should have prefixed her talk with &#8220;hey, I&#8217;m just riffing here, don&#8217;t take me seriously&#8221;. That might have spared me the effort. As is, she did not, and people have hailed her talk as saying something pertinent on the subject &#8211; which it does not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496644</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496644</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is the new methodology of critique.  Let&#039;s take an informal talk, or in the case of SkepchiCON last year, panel discussion, and hold the language to the standard of the written word, and while we are at it, to the written word in edited and reviewed publications.

I doubt, Dave, that anyone in that room did not realize that Rebecca was quoting from the newspaper article she was showing on the screen and referring to.

If anything, perhaps Rebecca should be more explicit and redundant in making that sort of thing clear for folks who are willing to overlook the obvious in order to manufacture a criticism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the new methodology of critique.  Let&#8217;s take an informal talk, or in the case of SkepchiCON last year, panel discussion, and hold the language to the standard of the written word, and while we are at it, to the written word in edited and reviewed publications.</p>
<p>I doubt, Dave, that anyone in that room did not realize that Rebecca was quoting from the newspaper article she was showing on the screen and referring to.</p>
<p>If anything, perhaps Rebecca should be more explicit and redundant in making that sort of thing clear for folks who are willing to overlook the obvious in order to manufacture a criticism.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Allen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Allen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I find Rebecca&#039;s talk a catalogue of error from start to near finish. Aside from a fairly decent summary of Stereotype Threat almost every point she raises is either wrong or misleading. I have begun a blog to discuss why, and the first three and a half minutes of her talk are analysed here:

http://psych0drama.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/why-i-think-rebecca-watson-seriously.html

Much more to come, would love any feedback people wish to give.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find Rebecca&#8217;s talk a catalogue of error from start to near finish. Aside from a fairly decent summary of Stereotype Threat almost every point she raises is either wrong or misleading. I have begun a blog to discuss why, and the first three and a half minutes of her talk are analysed here:</p>
<p><a href="http://psych0drama.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/why-i-think-rebecca-watson-seriously.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://psych0drama.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/why-i-think-rebecca-watson-seriously.html</a></p>
<p>Much more to come, would love any feedback people wish to give.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bks		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496642</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496642</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I still say it&#039;s susceptible to simple counting.  Let&#039;s add Walmart and Target to the list.   I do go to REI (reluctantly) and I&#039;d say the one in Berkeley is 50-50.  Home Depot and Ace Hardware I&#039;ll concede have more men.   There is an important element in what you&#039;re saying though: there are massive contradictions in the way the left (and I&#039;m well  to the left of, say, Greg) talks about sex and gender and evolution and culture.

    --bks

p.s. That&#039;s not to say that the right doesn&#039;t suffer problems in the way they talk about sex and gender and culture and evolution, just that they reject evolution which is even stupider.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still say it&#8217;s susceptible to simple counting.  Let&#8217;s add Walmart and Target to the list.   I do go to REI (reluctantly) and I&#8217;d say the one in Berkeley is 50-50.  Home Depot and Ace Hardware I&#8217;ll concede have more men.   There is an important element in what you&#8217;re saying though: there are massive contradictions in the way the left (and I&#8217;m well  to the left of, say, Greg) talks about sex and gender and evolution and culture.</p>
<p>    &#8211;bks</p>
<p>p.s. That&#8217;s not to say that the right doesn&#8217;t suffer problems in the way they talk about sex and gender and culture and evolution, just that they reject evolution which is even stupider.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hypatia's Daughter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496641</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hypatia's Daughter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 20:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496641</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;To bring it all back home, I think we can show that women do enjoy shopping more than men (just walk into any department store Sunday at 2pm and count) &quot;
Hey, bks, have you ever walked into an REI or Home Depot? Lotsa men, apparently NOT shopping ........
I hate shopping.  But I have to do it. My husband asks for deodorant, my son needs underwear, we all need groceries. Amazing how much shopping I have to do FOR OTHER PEOPLE and not because I am getting some atavistic thrill from the experience.
bkks, it is from such stupid generalizations as yours we get some of the more stupid premises in gender psychology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To bring it all back home, I think we can show that women do enjoy shopping more than men (just walk into any department store Sunday at 2pm and count) &#8221;<br />
Hey, bks, have you ever walked into an REI or Home Depot? Lotsa men, apparently NOT shopping &#8230;&#8230;..<br />
I hate shopping.  But I have to do it. My husband asks for deodorant, my son needs underwear, we all need groceries. Amazing how much shopping I have to do FOR OTHER PEOPLE and not because I am getting some atavistic thrill from the experience.<br />
bkks, it is from such stupid generalizations as yours we get some of the more stupid premises in gender psychology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bks		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496640</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496640</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stephanie, that doesn&#039;t add to the credibility of your claim.  I don&#039;t know you, I don&#039;t know Ed Clint, I don&#039;t know Greg and I certainly don&#039;t know what you mean by &quot;very good sources&quot;.  In fact, I now doubt your claim more than I did the first time around.   What&#039;s the big secret?

Pieter, I mean hidden agenda behind Ed Clint&#039;s essay about  Watson&#039;s attack on evo-Psych.   It&#039;s pretty clear that Stephanie has  a &quot;hidden&quot; agenda (she may have grounds for it, but it&#039;s certainly hidden).

    --bks]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie, that doesn&#8217;t add to the credibility of your claim.  I don&#8217;t know you, I don&#8217;t know Ed Clint, I don&#8217;t know Greg and I certainly don&#8217;t know what you mean by &#8220;very good sources&#8221;.  In fact, I now doubt your claim more than I did the first time around.   What&#8217;s the big secret?</p>
<p>Pieter, I mean hidden agenda behind Ed Clint&#8217;s essay about  Watson&#8217;s attack on evo-Psych.   It&#8217;s pretty clear that Stephanie has  a &#8220;hidden&#8221; agenda (she may have grounds for it, but it&#8217;s certainly hidden).</p>
<p>    &#8211;bks</p>
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		<title>
		By: noelplum99		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/06/critique-of-rebecca-watsons-talk-haters-gonna-hate/#comment-496639</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[noelplum99]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 08:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14772#comment-496639</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg and Steph,
Had a look at that parody site. How is that not funny? I read the McCreight and Thunderf00t parodies and was rocking in my seat.
I will admit, I didn&#039;t get the skeptichun part as well. I assume that is a parody of Skepchick maybe? I have never read Skepchick (I kind of assume it isn&#039;t meant for men, given the title) so maybe that was why i missed that one, parodies tend to work that way.
I really think you need to lighten up a bit, we all get parodied and you just have to take it on the chin and not be quite so insufferably stiff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANCqYGcSNQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FANFVSFaHZ0

&quot;In fact, I warned a few people it was coming.&quot;

Warned them? WARNED THEM? FFS Steph, this was a parody of your blogs not an incoming thermonuclear missile. Your comment here is a parody on equal footing with the bloody link itself.

Jim]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg and Steph,<br />
Had a look at that parody site. How is that not funny? I read the McCreight and Thunderf00t parodies and was rocking in my seat.<br />
I will admit, I didn&#8217;t get the skeptichun part as well. I assume that is a parody of Skepchick maybe? I have never read Skepchick (I kind of assume it isn&#8217;t meant for men, given the title) so maybe that was why i missed that one, parodies tend to work that way.<br />
I really think you need to lighten up a bit, we all get parodied and you just have to take it on the chin and not be quite so insufferably stiff:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANCqYGcSNQ" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANCqYGcSNQ</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FANFVSFaHZ0" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FANFVSFaHZ0</a></p>
<p>&#8220;In fact, I warned a few people it was coming.&#8221;</p>
<p>Warned them? WARNED THEM? FFS Steph, this was a parody of your blogs not an incoming thermonuclear missile. Your comment here is a parody on equal footing with the bloody link itself.</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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