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	Comments on: How many people were killed as Witches in Europe from 1200 to the present?	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-564584</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-564584</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[why woudnt the witch hunt times happening in europe be called the burning times]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why woudnt the witch hunt times happening in europe be called the burning times</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce Johnson		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496519</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Johnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2017 15:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496519</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just a But I’d education, I’m not in the position to estimate any numbers of pagans burnt but plenty of reformist Christians were, at least they hated everyone. Witch is a mistranslation in the English bible. Witches as we would know them are not referenced in the bible at all. Second, education comes into play, no one today in the church thinks the church has power to kill anyone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a But I’d education, I’m not in the position to estimate any numbers of pagans burnt but plenty of reformist Christians were, at least they hated everyone. Witch is a mistranslation in the English bible. Witches as we would know them are not referenced in the bible at all. Second, education comes into play, no one today in the church thinks the church has power to kill anyone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Will Walsh		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496518</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will Walsh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496518</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think the Stedinger can be classed as witches. I&#039;m pretty skeptical of the language attributed to Gregory IX in the 19th century text you quote too, but accepting it as genuine for purposes of this question I think that any attempt to account for the numbers of people killed for alleged witchcraft should be focused on cases where the real cause of enmity was the belief that the victim was practicing witchcraft. The Stedinger were very unlikely to have been 8,000 in number altogether in 1234. The population of Europe at that time was about 60,000,000 and they inhabited the Weser marshes about 40 years before meeting their demise. There were five of them, or five families at that time, who executed a charter with the Archbishop of Bremen agreeing to certain tithes. When they didn&#039;t pay decades later, things got ugly, but I don&#039;t think it can be proven that it did so because they were believed to be practicing witchcraft.

A reason I don&#039;t think defining witchcraft as some antipathy to the Catholic Church is helpful in considering the question, is that my understanding is that documented cases of persecution of witchcraft were more common in Protestant societies after the Reformation at least. The Inquisition, or at least the Holy Office in Spain which is most notorious, was ironically generally skeptical of charges of witchcraft at least according to Richard Kagen recently and other historians before him. Kagen&#039;s work is perhaps revisionist, but not on this point, which is pretty well documented, something unfortunately rare in so many of these cases. Specifically, the Inquisition&#039;s investigations of charges of witchcraft seem to have resulted in acquittals on those charges most of the time, and their minions were instructed to be skeptical of such charges from 1500 or so on at least.

The case of Joan of Arc is certainly interesting, as she was surely charged with consorting with the devil. Several decades later, after one of the most thorough investigations of which we still possess the records, the Vatican made her a saint though. I think even in the 15th century everyone would have agreed she was burned for being a French patriot by the English. While it is surely true that unscrupulous people like King Phillip of France made use of such charges to justify their persecution of all sorts of people like the Templar warrior-monks, what is interesting from the perspective of recent times is the extent to which a genuine fear of witchcraft and magic motivated popular hysteria or legal actions that led to such killings. No one believes that Phillip went after the Templars because he thought they were consorting with Satan.

The bottom line on this question is that the sources we have are inadequate to answer it with any real certainty. Mortality came quicker in the medieval world, as did violent death, but the motives of the killers will forever be obscure in most cases. It can be said that many people found such charges credible, and attributed things they could not understand to the practice of witchcraft in those times. It is hard to conclude, however, that the victims were actually a group of people who would understand why those people in our times who call themselves pagans or wiccans claim them as martyrs. Their doing so seems mostly related to the modern understanding that being a member of victim class can often be turned to account in argument or making claims. I don&#039;t think the people who were burned would have had much desire to be classed as anti-Christian, and probably died saying Christian prayers in the overwhelming majority of such cases.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the Stedinger can be classed as witches. I&#8217;m pretty skeptical of the language attributed to Gregory IX in the 19th century text you quote too, but accepting it as genuine for purposes of this question I think that any attempt to account for the numbers of people killed for alleged witchcraft should be focused on cases where the real cause of enmity was the belief that the victim was practicing witchcraft. The Stedinger were very unlikely to have been 8,000 in number altogether in 1234. The population of Europe at that time was about 60,000,000 and they inhabited the Weser marshes about 40 years before meeting their demise. There were five of them, or five families at that time, who executed a charter with the Archbishop of Bremen agreeing to certain tithes. When they didn&#8217;t pay decades later, things got ugly, but I don&#8217;t think it can be proven that it did so because they were believed to be practicing witchcraft.</p>
<p>A reason I don&#8217;t think defining witchcraft as some antipathy to the Catholic Church is helpful in considering the question, is that my understanding is that documented cases of persecution of witchcraft were more common in Protestant societies after the Reformation at least. The Inquisition, or at least the Holy Office in Spain which is most notorious, was ironically generally skeptical of charges of witchcraft at least according to Richard Kagen recently and other historians before him. Kagen&#8217;s work is perhaps revisionist, but not on this point, which is pretty well documented, something unfortunately rare in so many of these cases. Specifically, the Inquisition&#8217;s investigations of charges of witchcraft seem to have resulted in acquittals on those charges most of the time, and their minions were instructed to be skeptical of such charges from 1500 or so on at least.</p>
<p>The case of Joan of Arc is certainly interesting, as she was surely charged with consorting with the devil. Several decades later, after one of the most thorough investigations of which we still possess the records, the Vatican made her a saint though. I think even in the 15th century everyone would have agreed she was burned for being a French patriot by the English. While it is surely true that unscrupulous people like King Phillip of France made use of such charges to justify their persecution of all sorts of people like the Templar warrior-monks, what is interesting from the perspective of recent times is the extent to which a genuine fear of witchcraft and magic motivated popular hysteria or legal actions that led to such killings. No one believes that Phillip went after the Templars because he thought they were consorting with Satan.</p>
<p>The bottom line on this question is that the sources we have are inadequate to answer it with any real certainty. Mortality came quicker in the medieval world, as did violent death, but the motives of the killers will forever be obscure in most cases. It can be said that many people found such charges credible, and attributed things they could not understand to the practice of witchcraft in those times. It is hard to conclude, however, that the victims were actually a group of people who would understand why those people in our times who call themselves pagans or wiccans claim them as martyrs. Their doing so seems mostly related to the modern understanding that being a member of victim class can often be turned to account in argument or making claims. I don&#8217;t think the people who were burned would have had much desire to be classed as anti-Christian, and probably died saying Christian prayers in the overwhelming majority of such cases.</p>
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		<title>
		By: 51 Historical Facts That Sound Like Huge Lies But Are Actually True &#124; Facts For You		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496517</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[51 Historical Facts That Sound Like Huge Lies But Are Actually True &#124; Facts For You]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496517</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] 2. In medieval times people were put to death for being witches. One anthropologist conjectures as many as 600,000 “witches” lost their lives. [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 2. In medieval times people were put to death for being witches. One anthropologist conjectures as many as 600,000 “witches” lost their lives. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496516</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496516</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[#70, doubt that massively. Especially the wording you used, which is more a tumblr feminist post than anything real by a teacher.

My youngest sister and brother never found anything like that and they were about that time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#70, doubt that massively. Especially the wording you used, which is more a tumblr feminist post than anything real by a teacher.</p>
<p>My youngest sister and brother never found anything like that and they were about that time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hobbitte		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496515</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hobbitte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 11:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496515</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To expand upon Lilly Tilly&#039;s previous comment, let&#039;s do some math:

300 towns x 400 years x 1 &quot;witch&quot;/year/town
= 120,000 &quot;witches&quot;

That&#039;s assuming they only killed one witch per year in each of these towns, which is ridiculously low.

300 towns x 400 years x 100 &quot;witches&quot;/year/town
 = 12 million &quot;witches&quot;

And even this number is conservative:
-more than 300 European towns had witch trials (Eastern Europe had huge numbers too)
-the European witch trial craze lasted for more than 400 years
-we&#039;re not even counting any miscellaneous genocides and heresy accusations that came under the umbrella of witchcraft
-why stop at Europe, when people are still being killed in various places around the world for witchcraft today?
-why stop at Christianity? Islam has persecuted &quot;witches&quot; with very similar motivations, and let&#039;s not forget the slew of non-monotheistic cults that did so since times immemorial

but yes... as far as the number of people, especially women, that Christianity killed for &quot;witchcraft&quot;, it would seem the answer is in the MILLIONS.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To expand upon Lilly Tilly&#8217;s previous comment, let&#8217;s do some math:</p>
<p>300 towns x 400 years x 1 &#8220;witch&#8221;/year/town<br />
= 120,000 &#8220;witches&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s assuming they only killed one witch per year in each of these towns, which is ridiculously low.</p>
<p>300 towns x 400 years x 100 &#8220;witches&#8221;/year/town<br />
 = 12 million &#8220;witches&#8221;</p>
<p>And even this number is conservative:<br />
-more than 300 European towns had witch trials (Eastern Europe had huge numbers too)<br />
-the European witch trial craze lasted for more than 400 years<br />
-we&#8217;re not even counting any miscellaneous genocides and heresy accusations that came under the umbrella of witchcraft<br />
-why stop at Europe, when people are still being killed in various places around the world for witchcraft today?<br />
-why stop at Christianity? Islam has persecuted &#8220;witches&#8221; with very similar motivations, and let&#8217;s not forget the slew of non-monotheistic cults that did so since times immemorial</p>
<p>but yes&#8230; as far as the number of people, especially women, that Christianity killed for &#8220;witchcraft&#8221;, it would seem the answer is in the MILLIONS.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lizzie		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496514</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lizzie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496514</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We were taught in School (1994/5) that this number was in the millions.
We were taught that the genocide was due to the patriarchal organisers of the &#039;Medical revolution&#039; who actively killed women who were suspected and accused of witchcraft.
We were told that to pave the way for the new sciences, the plan was to eradicate the &#039;old ways&#039; and to remove the status of female healers  undermining their practices/suspected practices by vilifying them and murdering them, their female family members and associates. We were told that Men suffered and the hands of the Lynch mobs and organisers of the mass genocide, but ultimately, this was more about Old practices being wiped out entirely to make way for the apparent &#039;new, improved&#039; medicine/science/healthcare. This made being female incredibly tricky in Europe throughout the middle ages.
I know not how much of this is &#039;fact&#039; as we all know history is constantly re-written, but it is a subject I am very interested in that seems to have little available information..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We were taught in School (1994/5) that this number was in the millions.<br />
We were taught that the genocide was due to the patriarchal organisers of the &#8216;Medical revolution&#8217; who actively killed women who were suspected and accused of witchcraft.<br />
We were told that to pave the way for the new sciences, the plan was to eradicate the &#8216;old ways&#8217; and to remove the status of female healers  undermining their practices/suspected practices by vilifying them and murdering them, their female family members and associates. We were told that Men suffered and the hands of the Lynch mobs and organisers of the mass genocide, but ultimately, this was more about Old practices being wiped out entirely to make way for the apparent &#8216;new, improved&#8217; medicine/science/healthcare. This made being female incredibly tricky in Europe throughout the middle ages.<br />
I know not how much of this is &#8216;fact&#8217; as we all know history is constantly re-written, but it is a subject I am very interested in that seems to have little available information..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sandy Schairer		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496513</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandy Schairer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2016 20:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496513</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Per legend, rural people were still practicing the old ways of the pagan religions. Like indigenous people everywhere, those who did not convert to the new religion, i.e. Christianity, had to be eliminated. Medieval Christianity declared the pagan gods to be evil/devil. For example Satan got his horns from Cerunnos the Horned God.  In addition, women were the healers and their natural methods and medicines were declared to be evil spells and dangerous  potions. &quot;Modern scientific&quot; medicine was a patriarchal realm where only men were doctors. It&#039;s possible cats were considered familiars (links to Satan) of so-called witches and were probably eliminated with the &quot;witches&quot;.  Cats killed rats. Without cats the rat population increased.  As rats became abundant so did fleas. Fleas, as we know, spread the plague to humans.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per legend, rural people were still practicing the old ways of the pagan religions. Like indigenous people everywhere, those who did not convert to the new religion, i.e. Christianity, had to be eliminated. Medieval Christianity declared the pagan gods to be evil/devil. For example Satan got his horns from Cerunnos the Horned God.  In addition, women were the healers and their natural methods and medicines were declared to be evil spells and dangerous  potions. &#8220;Modern scientific&#8221; medicine was a patriarchal realm where only men were doctors. It&#8217;s possible cats were considered familiars (links to Satan) of so-called witches and were probably eliminated with the &#8220;witches&#8221;.  Cats killed rats. Without cats the rat population increased.  As rats became abundant so did fleas. Fleas, as we know, spread the plague to humans.</p>
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		By: About Real Witch-Craft and Justice for Women and their Souls *Special THRILLER-HALLOWEEN Article* © Michael Jackson TwinFlame Soul Official &#124; Archangel Michael 777		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496512</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[About Real Witch-Craft and Justice for Women and their Souls *Special THRILLER-HALLOWEEN Article* © Michael Jackson TwinFlame Soul Official &#124; Archangel Michael 777]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2016 11:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496512</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] How many people were killed as Witches in Europe from 1200 to the present? [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] How many people were killed as Witches in Europe from 1200 to the present? [&#8230;]</p>
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		By: Black Cat Superstition: Good or Bad Kitty? &#124; Historic Mysteries		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/12/02/how-many-people-were-killed-as-witches-in-europe-from-1200-to-the-present-2/#comment-496511</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Black Cat Superstition: Good or Bad Kitty? &#124; Historic Mysteries]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2016 23:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=14659#comment-496511</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] estimated that hundreds of thousand of people accused of being witches were killed across Europe (Scienceblogs.com). Additionally, black cats were being eradicated, and this, coupled with other environmental [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] estimated that hundreds of thousand of people accused of being witches were killed across Europe (Scienceblogs.com). Additionally, black cats were being eradicated, and this, coupled with other environmental [&#8230;]</p>
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