But I generally agree with your argument and I’ve frequently deplored the character-assassination and vituperative language, and worse, that seems “to go with the territory” of questioning “conventional wisdom”. You really “had me” at least sympathizing with your presentation – right up until you asserted that the only reason for Harriet Hall’s t-shirt was to make some “person feel bad” which has to take the cake for making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Tends to raise a question of two about how many other holes there might be in the rest of the argument.

But that case is, I think, the tip of the iceberg which seems to consist of a rather remarkable blindness to the possibility that FTB/Skepchick/AtheismPlus/GregLaden might actually be wrong on a point or two. For instance, PZ Myers made a great show of opening the doors to his place to discuss the question “why do you despise feminism?”. Yet when a SlymePitter shows up – Skep Tickle – with a quite reasonable comment, the horde descends on her like a phalanx of T-cells ready to isolate some gram-negative bacterium. The upshot of which was PZ banning her – “with extreme prejudice”, without so much as a reference to her comments – simply on the basis that she is a slymepitter – and one who hasn’t posted much there either so she can’t have been that badly tainted yet. Not something that adds much lustre to PZ’s reputation as a skeptic – or as an honest broker.

In addition, there is Ophelia Benson’s tweeted claim that “connecting the word ‘feminism’ with the word ‘virulent’ … is misogyny”. Yet she seems remarkably loath to consider, for one example of several, evidence such as the female protesters at the University of Toronto who attempted to harass those who wished to hear a speaker on men’s rights – which led to the “doxing” of several of the women responsible for virtually the same reason – harassment – that you’ve doxed Mykeru.

And then there’s Sally Strange who concedes that “the few isolated good points that MRAs have are indeed good points” yet turns around and repudiates that position when pressed. And PZ with his suggestion that of those who criticize feminism, virtually all “everyone of them has the name Marc Lepine”. That isn’t rationality and skepticism but demagoguery and dogma speaking.

Methinks there’s some rather selective and quite problematic blindness from your neck of the woods which, if it doesn’t justify all of the criticisms from the Pit it certainly underwrites a lot of it. You guys and gals all might want to consider that you’ve got a log, a beam, or two in your own eyes before waving a knife about in an effort to exise a mote or two in your brothers’ and sisters’. That there are whackos on both sides of this divide should not lead the saner ones on each to the conclusion that the other side consists solely of those whackos.

ok i am human and male, and thus sexist at least sometimes, i tend not to even make friends with women, and perhaps that is sexist, only the attitudes around me i allways perceived as way more sexist, even in many women.

accepting their secondary, passive and subservient attitudes and the whole programming of their daughters to be next in life (emotional victim).

nevertheles at any time and point male were worse in attitudes. in specific they are usually if not allways control freaks. (woman can also)

my favoured and probably sometimes faint or ineffective trick, is in cases were the authority on any in the dispute is raised, project and assume a thorough knowledge and intuitive superiority in the women involved (quite justifiedly)as compared to the man.(1)

it has great effects, if the man remotely care, most surely do ‘with rebbeca close’, they invariably wisely tolerate the implications (their opinion is comparatively needless, insignifcant and unjustified) or enter some shocked state, hoovering between perplexion and consense.

commonly also it gives way to repeats of the male ignorance, at least then such shows to anyone paying attention (so far usually not the concerned woman but that is ofcourse hard to judge).

the opposite is also true, for no gold i would enter a relation with the usual woman i get to know inside such a thing (a relation). i blame it on precarity and a rather total lack of opportunity for the most, not in the least because the cultural factors in childraising and education.

the better notion is that with racism like probably all people of good intent, i also noticed how deeply entrenched that is,
especially when meeting groups of migrant youth wandering aimless in deserted areas i seriously felt fear when i both did not want that, and actually had no real need since i allways enjoyed good relations with the like groups and have experienced substantially more violence and threats by whites.

so i tried to work at that prejudice, also because it annoyed me more about my own judgement than the whole sexist thing. the good news is to an extent it worked,
i advise anyone try it,

martial arts helped against sexism (minimising fear it minimises the fear to, if even softly, confront. even if you don’t “kick ass”)

(1) there are a few , all to true , arguments for this, woman “think better, understand quicker, consider emotional aspects, talk about things and people better” eg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC3n33qKRKk&feature=youtu.be

It seems to be a fund raising effort. My reference to a stutter during the first rant was taken as a hate against all stutterers by Greg.

Haha. No, I’ve not seen it, nor will I. Don’t know who that is.

Interesting to hear about the stuttering. That must have been a little funny. I had noticed that most people stutter around Rebecca, something about her aura!

I already got tipped off on the spelling error. If I had zero nickels for every spelling error I’d have a lot of spelling errors!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4lQIsMoMwQ

I do not know who that is, but if he is typical of the guys you are talking about then I think you were too kind. This certainly is a man who has a brain that was damaged by testosterone! And then, later, by a lot of drugs. I hope not a woman’s brain to start with, though.

Your use of italics and other typography has enraged this man. Also, he stutters uncontrollably whenever his words get anywhere near Rebecca Watson’s name.

He does point out that you spelled Marshal wrong. But he also believes that you were not joking about multiplying things by zero.

Going to take shower now.

As a woman who is currently working (and obtaining a master’s degree in) the field of Development Studies, wherein my primary focus is sexual violence and genital mutilation, I have my faith in humanity marred on a daily basis. While I am studying and working with both male and female victims, the latter are overwhelmingly affected more often. With each new case study, I can’t help but feel resentment toward “the patriarchy” and the people (who time and time again are predominantly men) who proliferate its ideals and whose actions range from mildly frustrating to downright gut-wrenchingly abominable.

I try not to let it bring me down too much–I know there is a certain degree of emotional detachment I must have if I want to make it in this field and truly enact change–but it wears on a person after a while.

So here’s where I say, to borrow from Paul: “My name is Monika, and I am a sexist”.
I try my damndest not to be because it is a quality I very much dislike about myself, but I know that I am affected by all of the things I see every day, from the hyper objectification of women in the media to the encounters I have with rape victims.

I don’t hate men. In fact, I absolutely love them. Men have always been my kindest friends, my most passionate lovers, my strongest pillars of support, and my most constructive critics. I can’t imagine my life without all of the beautiful (both inside and out) men in my life. That being said, it is EXTREMELY difficult not harbor at least some resentment toward the general “man” when you witness attack after attack after attack on women.

Yes, I know men are attacked too, by other men and by women, and I know that women also attack women, but the man-on-woman attacks, whether they be verbal/written or physical, far outweigh any of the others. That is just the way it is. And after a while, after one has repeatedly seen and heard correctly that “the bad guys are men”, “the bad guys are men”, “the bad guys are men”, one cannot help but start to think, even if incorrectly, that “men are the bad guys”. It’s called conditioning and every human being falls victim to it–myself included–even if he/she knows better.

Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way saying what Rebecca Watson experienced is on par with *actual* rape or genital mutilation or the likes–threatening to do something is, of course, not the same as actually doing it–but the principles behind it are the same. (I don’t know Rebecca personally but I would venture to say that she feels the same way and shame on Mr. Dawkins for insinuating otherwise. I’m truly disappointed in him, as he has been such an inspiration to me.)

I understand what it’s like to have my personal beliefs and values challenged; it can be extremely frustrating and elicit varying degrees of emotional response. I know how it feels to be downright infuriated as a result of an argument. I cannot, however, fathom how threatening or wishing harm to someone’s personal well-being is in any way a productive or acceptable response. It might be one’s freedom to speak thusly but when said freedoms encroach upon and contradict the freedoms of others (such as the freedom to live free from harassment, etc.), the “it’s my right” assertion becomes invalid. Those who spout threats and claim it is their right to do so simply lack any other form of argument and cannot add anything of any real substance to the given matter at hand. It is a cop-out for the mentally incapable (and/or the lazy), plain and simple.

So please, everyone, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say it at all. Disagreeing and making valid arguments is one thing, but threatening or wishing harm on someone’s well-being (even if those threats are allegedly “hollow”) is another thing entirely; the latter is simply displaying your idiocy and bringing everyone down with you. Your intimidation tactics and your ‘trolling’ might be getting attention now but it will fade soon enough, so I suggest finding more productive ways to occupy your time and efforts.

Men, stop giving other men a bad name.
Women, the same goes for you.
Trolls, whoever you are, no one is impressed. I hope you all get raped and die in a fire.
(Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. I’m being facetious, of course.)

((Sorry for the novelette. I’ve been writing term papers for the past two weeks and I guess I’m still in that mode.))