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	Comments on: Why Romney&#039;s &#034;Route to the sea&#034; gaffe is way worse than you think	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:52:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		By: Iran. A strategic trade route or a pipeline perhaps. &#171; mistybarriers		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495564</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iran. A strategic trade route or a pipeline perhaps. &#171; mistybarriers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495564</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Why Romney&#8217;s &#8220;Route to the sea&#8221; gaff is way worse than you think (scienceblogs.com) [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Why Romney&#8217;s &#8220;Route to the sea&#8221; gaff is way worse than you think (scienceblogs.com) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayanta		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayanta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495563</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is really kind of foolish to challenge Romney&#039;s intelligence. The guy saved Bain Consulting from collapse. He is obviously very smart and has great practical sense. Much smarter than Obama who has no intellectual achievements to his credit.

The problem with Romney is not that he is dumb. The problems are that he may increase conflict with countries like Russia and that he will oppose necessary taxes on the super-rich.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is really kind of foolish to challenge Romney&#8217;s intelligence. The guy saved Bain Consulting from collapse. He is obviously very smart and has great practical sense. Much smarter than Obama who has no intellectual achievements to his credit.</p>
<p>The problem with Romney is not that he is dumb. The problems are that he may increase conflict with countries like Russia and that he will oppose necessary taxes on the super-rich.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cassandra		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495562</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cassandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 06:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495562</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When I heard Romney say Iran needed a route to the sea, I assumed he was taking a western-centric view of the world, saying the Mediterranean was the only sea that &quot;counted&quot; in that region.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I heard Romney say Iran needed a route to the sea, I assumed he was taking a western-centric view of the world, saying the Mediterranean was the only sea that &#8220;counted&#8221; in that region.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Willy		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495561</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Willy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495561</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Your next column should discuss whether using &quot;gaff&quot; is a gaffe or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your next column should discuss whether using &#8220;gaff&#8221; is a gaffe or not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Simons		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495560</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Simons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495560</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Perhaps Romney will realize that Iran has a coastline if Iran gets sufficiently upset and blockades the Strait of Hormuz. As I read your piece, I thought this was going to be your main concern.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Romney will realize that Iran has a coastline if Iran gets sufficiently upset and blockades the Strait of Hormuz. As I read your piece, I thought this was going to be your main concern.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495559</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495559</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For anyone trying to make hay out of this, the  great news is that unlike  Obama, Rmney  knows here are only 50 states!
Also, Syria is Iran&#039;s route to  Club Med.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone trying to make hay out of this, the  great news is that unlike  Obama, Rmney  knows here are only 50 states!<br />
Also, Syria is Iran&#8217;s route to  Club Med.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mary Larson-Dennis		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Larson-Dennis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this informative piece.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this informative piece.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Obviously a lot of people commenting on this thread would have done better than Mr. Romney in the debate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously a lot of people commenting on this thread would have done better than Mr. Romney in the debate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495556</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A few point, that might, or might not, change the context of the overall situation:

Both Iran and Russia have long dreamed of pipelines that would ship their petroleum resources, gas and/or oil, to energy short Europe through the Mediterranean. The invasion of Georgia was, to some extent, part of this but I think the main thing was that Russia is loath to have states that are too independent next to them.

Access to the Pacific by Russia might be much less an issue in the future as the ice melts due to AGW.

The start of the Iranian nuclear program can be traced back to their first nuclear reactor, built by GE and given to Iran by the US.  The present dilemma is a direct result of the Atoms for Peace program.

Iranian suspicion of US motives and means goes back to the CIA engineered coup and replacement of a popular Iranian leader, who was making slightly pro-Soviet noises, with a leader who would be more pro-US. This was also seen by the CIA as a blocking maneuver to keep the USSR away from the Indian Ocean.

The Mujaheddin was losing in Afghanistan before the US backed them and ginned up religious fundamentalist sentiment as a tactic to bring fighters to Afghanistan. OBL was influenced by the CIA inspired and organized Muslim fundamentalists front and he became a US proxy by joining this moment.  Once the Soviets moved out the US left the monster they had created intact and undirected. Al-Qeada was a result of this organization being potent and desiring other missions but undirected.

The Iranian regime,  alarmed by both a fundamentalist Sunni and Arab force north of their border, was quite cooperative with the US invasion of Afghanistan.  Persians and Arabs are quite different in culture and temperament as are Shea and Sunni Muslims.

By rights, common interests, if it wasn&#039;t for historic reasons for well founded Iranian suspicions of the US and differences over the nuclear program, both of which the US needs to take some responsibility, the Iranians would be active and direct allies of our efforts in Afghanistan. In the unlikely event of US-Iranain cooperation many of the strategic and  logistical problems in and around Afghanistan would disappear. Iran would be a route from the sea for US supplies and forces.

This would also make us much less dependent upon Pakistani good will. Without US funding and strategic support Pakistan would be more open to settling the Kashmir situation and settling the issues with India. If the Indians were less worried about Pakistan they would be a much stronger counterweight to China. There is also the fact that the obvious counterweight to Arab nationalism is Persian nationalism.

The overall point of those last few bits is to point out that while there is no obvious up side to conflict with Iran there are obvious and real benefits to working together.

Of course none of this matters to Romney because as flawed a tool as he is his mission is both simple and clear: Do and say whatever is necessary to advance the political ambitions of the GOP. US economic soundness, the prosperity of the citizenry, and world peace, are secondary to this goal. As Noquest said, he only needs sufficient digits to hold a pen.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few point, that might, or might not, change the context of the overall situation:</p>
<p>Both Iran and Russia have long dreamed of pipelines that would ship their petroleum resources, gas and/or oil, to energy short Europe through the Mediterranean. The invasion of Georgia was, to some extent, part of this but I think the main thing was that Russia is loath to have states that are too independent next to them.</p>
<p>Access to the Pacific by Russia might be much less an issue in the future as the ice melts due to AGW.</p>
<p>The start of the Iranian nuclear program can be traced back to their first nuclear reactor, built by GE and given to Iran by the US.  The present dilemma is a direct result of the Atoms for Peace program.</p>
<p>Iranian suspicion of US motives and means goes back to the CIA engineered coup and replacement of a popular Iranian leader, who was making slightly pro-Soviet noises, with a leader who would be more pro-US. This was also seen by the CIA as a blocking maneuver to keep the USSR away from the Indian Ocean.</p>
<p>The Mujaheddin was losing in Afghanistan before the US backed them and ginned up religious fundamentalist sentiment as a tactic to bring fighters to Afghanistan. OBL was influenced by the CIA inspired and organized Muslim fundamentalists front and he became a US proxy by joining this moment.  Once the Soviets moved out the US left the monster they had created intact and undirected. Al-Qeada was a result of this organization being potent and desiring other missions but undirected.</p>
<p>The Iranian regime,  alarmed by both a fundamentalist Sunni and Arab force north of their border, was quite cooperative with the US invasion of Afghanistan.  Persians and Arabs are quite different in culture and temperament as are Shea and Sunni Muslims.</p>
<p>By rights, common interests, if it wasn&#8217;t for historic reasons for well founded Iranian suspicions of the US and differences over the nuclear program, both of which the US needs to take some responsibility, the Iranians would be active and direct allies of our efforts in Afghanistan. In the unlikely event of US-Iranain cooperation many of the strategic and  logistical problems in and around Afghanistan would disappear. Iran would be a route from the sea for US supplies and forces.</p>
<p>This would also make us much less dependent upon Pakistani good will. Without US funding and strategic support Pakistan would be more open to settling the Kashmir situation and settling the issues with India. If the Indians were less worried about Pakistan they would be a much stronger counterweight to China. There is also the fact that the obvious counterweight to Arab nationalism is Persian nationalism.</p>
<p>The overall point of those last few bits is to point out that while there is no obvious up side to conflict with Iran there are obvious and real benefits to working together.</p>
<p>Of course none of this matters to Romney because as flawed a tool as he is his mission is both simple and clear: Do and say whatever is necessary to advance the political ambitions of the GOP. US economic soundness, the prosperity of the citizenry, and world peace, are secondary to this goal. As Noquest said, he only needs sufficient digits to hold a pen.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dam Spahn		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/10/23/why-romneys-route-to-the-sea-gaff-is-way-worse-than-you-think/#comment-495555</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dam Spahn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=13836#comment-495555</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the man is too stupid to read a map, he&#039;s too stupid to be the Commander in Chief.  End of discussion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the man is too stupid to read a map, he&#8217;s too stupid to be the Commander in Chief.  End of discussion.</p>
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