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	Comments on: OMG this is NEVER going to work!	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Art		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493585</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493585</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t mean to imply that this is a drunk&#039;s long shot made needlessly complicated. It is a complex problem with tight parameters for success further complicated by limitations of cost and launch weight. Yes, there are simpler solutions.

You could build the lander with large rocket motors that would fire pretty much all the way down. It would be a single solution and much simpler. But, because the much larger rocket motors and  fuel needed to run them,  it would also involve launching a much heavier lander package. Which means a much larger launch vehicle and everything in turn getting heavier and more expensive.

The ablative heat shield and parachute combination is a lower cost and lighter way of doing a good part of the job slowing things down. But it adds complications and modes of failure as the lander has to undergo transitions from riding the heat shield, to hanging under a parachute, to rockets.

Given the constraints, it is hard to imagine another way of doing it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that this is a drunk&#8217;s long shot made needlessly complicated. It is a complex problem with tight parameters for success further complicated by limitations of cost and launch weight. Yes, there are simpler solutions.</p>
<p>You could build the lander with large rocket motors that would fire pretty much all the way down. It would be a single solution and much simpler. But, because the much larger rocket motors and  fuel needed to run them,  it would also involve launching a much heavier lander package. Which means a much larger launch vehicle and everything in turn getting heavier and more expensive.</p>
<p>The ablative heat shield and parachute combination is a lower cost and lighter way of doing a good part of the job slowing things down. But it adds complications and modes of failure as the lander has to undergo transitions from riding the heat shield, to hanging under a parachute, to rockets.</p>
<p>Given the constraints, it is hard to imagine another way of doing it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493584</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493584</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah,  and it wasn&#039;t even a particle.  It was a wigilly diggilly wavey sort of thing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah,  and it wasn&#8217;t even a particle.  It was a wigilly diggilly wavey sort of thing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cameron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493582</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493582</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for clearing that up Greg. I had been on edge regarding this topic as I&#039;ve had to defend it to people who think all science does is throw away money (made worse now that everyone knows the LHC cost $10 billion and all it did was find a &#039;particle&#039;).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clearing that up Greg. I had been on edge regarding this topic as I&#8217;ve had to defend it to people who think all science does is throw away money (made worse now that everyone knows the LHC cost $10 billion and all it did was find a &#8216;particle&#8217;).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cameron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for clearing that up Greg. I had been on edge regarding this topic as I&#039;ve had to defend it to people who think all science does is throw away money (made worse now that everyone knows the LHC cost $10 billion and all it did was find a &#039;particle&#039;).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clearing that up Greg. I had been on edge regarding this topic as I&#8217;ve had to defend it to people who think all science does is throw away money (made worse now that everyone knows the LHC cost $10 billion and all it did was find a &#8216;particle&#8217;).</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Roberts		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493581</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 18:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493581</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Five rails and a kiss...in the side pocket.  No problem?!  I wouldn&#039;t put money on this game but it will be a huge thrill if they pull it off.  Weirder things have happened.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Five rails and a kiss&#8230;in the side pocket.  No problem?!  I wouldn&#8217;t put money on this game but it will be a huge thrill if they pull it off.  Weirder things have happened.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493580</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 14:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493580</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cameron, the whole &quot;this is never going to work&quot; think is tongue in cheek.  I&#039;m merely playing off of NASA&#039;s hyping up how amazingly hard this is going to be.  I fully expect it to work, and I expect this rover to outperform its expectations like the others have!  Or at least I hope it does.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cameron, the whole &#8220;this is never going to work&#8221; think is tongue in cheek.  I&#8217;m merely playing off of NASA&#8217;s hyping up how amazingly hard this is going to be.  I fully expect it to work, and I expect this rover to outperform its expectations like the others have!  Or at least I hope it does.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cameron		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493579</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 06:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493579</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems to me that most things NASA do are complicated, some more so than others, yet they still do a damn good job. I was disappointed to see this post from someone within the scientific community as I thought they would have a better understanding of how NASA engineers and scientists go about their work than people from non-scientific backgrounds.

I&#039;m sure NASA didn&#039;t go out of their way to make this complicated. Generally, the chosen solution is probably the most simple. That, or it&#039;s the most likely to succeed. If they could have had made it more simple, I would be inclined to believe they would have done so.

Some of the steps aren&#039;t that difficult anyhow. They&#039;ve nailed the part about getting spacecrafts in to the right position before landing many times. They know what to expect in terms of speed, acceleration, deceleration, heat, drag and everything else as they too have nailed this with previous missions (and its largely down to physics). Some aspects of the landing sequence have been done before on the previous missions. Removing the heat shield and getting the parachute to work probably aren&#039;t any more difficult than sequences on previous missions. The timing is probably quite crucial but computers are good with that. There should be plenty of software to help the module adjust its thrusters and what not. Really, the biggest problems are probably the ones that can&#039;t be controlled, like debris interfering with sensors.

I doubt NASA are showing-off and making it go through all of these complicated steps for nothing. If they think this is the best option, it probably is. I can&#039;t think of a better way to land it.

Anyhow, I wish NASA good luck and I hope things go well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that most things NASA do are complicated, some more so than others, yet they still do a damn good job. I was disappointed to see this post from someone within the scientific community as I thought they would have a better understanding of how NASA engineers and scientists go about their work than people from non-scientific backgrounds.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure NASA didn&#8217;t go out of their way to make this complicated. Generally, the chosen solution is probably the most simple. That, or it&#8217;s the most likely to succeed. If they could have had made it more simple, I would be inclined to believe they would have done so.</p>
<p>Some of the steps aren&#8217;t that difficult anyhow. They&#8217;ve nailed the part about getting spacecrafts in to the right position before landing many times. They know what to expect in terms of speed, acceleration, deceleration, heat, drag and everything else as they too have nailed this with previous missions (and its largely down to physics). Some aspects of the landing sequence have been done before on the previous missions. Removing the heat shield and getting the parachute to work probably aren&#8217;t any more difficult than sequences on previous missions. The timing is probably quite crucial but computers are good with that. There should be plenty of software to help the module adjust its thrusters and what not. Really, the biggest problems are probably the ones that can&#8217;t be controlled, like debris interfering with sensors.</p>
<p>I doubt NASA are showing-off and making it go through all of these complicated steps for nothing. If they think this is the best option, it probably is. I can&#8217;t think of a better way to land it.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I wish NASA good luck and I hope things go well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493578</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 04:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493578</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s just hope this contraption didn&#039;t come out of a box labeled &quot;Acme Spacecraft Inc.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s just hope this contraption didn&#8217;t come out of a box labeled &#8220;Acme Spacecraft Inc.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Doug Alder		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug Alder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 03:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They should have talked to Wile E Coyote first :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They should have talked to Wile E Coyote first 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/29/omg-this-is-never-going-to-work/#comment-493576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12577#comment-493576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The plan massively violates the KISS principle. And it isn&#039;t just complicated. Pretty much every step, and a whole lot of parts, are critical. Failure of any one of them has high odds of ending up with lander and vehicle ending up as a fill for a rather unimpressive crater.

On the other hand this is sort of like attempting a hole-in-one bouncing the ball off the clubhouse, a tree, and a golf cart driven by a drunk. Failing big makes you a ballsy optimist, a dreamer, and a character. And, if you just happen to pull it off, you have secured your place in history.

Failure will be an &#039;opportunity to learn&#039;, a noble attempt, a good try. Success means you have a shoe in for engineering/ design/ planning/ process/ project God.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The plan massively violates the KISS principle. And it isn&#8217;t just complicated. Pretty much every step, and a whole lot of parts, are critical. Failure of any one of them has high odds of ending up with lander and vehicle ending up as a fill for a rather unimpressive crater.</p>
<p>On the other hand this is sort of like attempting a hole-in-one bouncing the ball off the clubhouse, a tree, and a golf cart driven by a drunk. Failing big makes you a ballsy optimist, a dreamer, and a character. And, if you just happen to pull it off, you have secured your place in history.</p>
<p>Failure will be an &#8216;opportunity to learn&#8217;, a noble attempt, a good try. Success means you have a shoe in for engineering/ design/ planning/ process/ project God.</p>
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