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	Comments on: How old does a toddler have to be before it stops trying to kill itself?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493571</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493571</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Those are all interesting points some of which were on my mind as I wrote this.  Having lived in Rural Africa for several years, I can tell you that the knives are not fearsomely sharp!  But little kids do have access to things like machetes etc that  would kind of freak out westerners.

But this brings up an entirely different but parallel question, about context.

In my view, western toddlers are living in a state of great discordance between pretty much any hypothetical &quot;EEA&quot; and their actual surroundings.  Even if one postulated (this would be wrong, but that won&#039;t stop people from thinking it) that we evolved to be repulsed by natural poison things (berries, other plant product, etc.) we live in an environment where the poisons are found in attractive bottles with happy people (or Mr. Clean) depicted on them.  I once helped rescue a kid who had eaten an entire bottle of blood pressure  pills.  He lived (it was close) but what he did was fairly logical.  Bright blue, pretty, sugar coated.  Of course he ate a bottle of them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are all interesting points some of which were on my mind as I wrote this.  Having lived in Rural Africa for several years, I can tell you that the knives are not fearsomely sharp!  But little kids do have access to things like machetes etc that  would kind of freak out westerners.</p>
<p>But this brings up an entirely different but parallel question, about context.</p>
<p>In my view, western toddlers are living in a state of great discordance between pretty much any hypothetical &#8220;EEA&#8221; and their actual surroundings.  Even if one postulated (this would be wrong, but that won&#8217;t stop people from thinking it) that we evolved to be repulsed by natural poison things (berries, other plant product, etc.) we live in an environment where the poisons are found in attractive bottles with happy people (or Mr. Clean) depicted on them.  I once helped rescue a kid who had eaten an entire bottle of blood pressure  pills.  He lived (it was close) but what he did was fairly logical.  Bright blue, pretty, sugar coated.  Of course he ate a bottle of them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ian Kemmish		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Kemmish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One suspects that the answer won&#039;t be entirely given by genetics.

 On the one hand, you have young children in rural parts of Africa left to look after precious resources like the family&#039;s flock and allowed - expected - to handle fearsomely sharp knives.

Then you have mid-20th century Western countries, where children discovered that knives were tools just before puberty and spent all their time making models of things.

Then you have contemporary Western cultures, where from puberty up until the birth of the first child (sometimes beyond, if the country has a good welfare system), they indulge in tombstoning, experimenting with drugs, gang warfare (including terrorism, of course) and so on.

Then you have BDSMers, up to half of whom never stop trying to kill themselves....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One suspects that the answer won&#8217;t be entirely given by genetics.</p>
<p> On the one hand, you have young children in rural parts of Africa left to look after precious resources like the family&#8217;s flock and allowed &#8211; expected &#8211; to handle fearsomely sharp knives.</p>
<p>Then you have mid-20th century Western countries, where children discovered that knives were tools just before puberty and spent all their time making models of things.</p>
<p>Then you have contemporary Western cultures, where from puberty up until the birth of the first child (sometimes beyond, if the country has a good welfare system), they indulge in tombstoning, experimenting with drugs, gang warfare (including terrorism, of course) and so on.</p>
<p>Then you have BDSMers, up to half of whom never stop trying to kill themselves&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493569</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493569</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right. I meant &quot;avoid grad school&quot;!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right. I meant &#8220;avoid grad school&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Vince Whirlwind		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493568</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vince Whirlwind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493568</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Got to take exception with your equivalence between, &quot;...to survive, or grow strong, become a pride leader or head giraffe,...&quot; and &quot;...get into a good school...&quot;.

I&#039;d say getting into a good school has an inverse relationship with reproductive fitness.

Hence less and less of us are paying tax, while more and more of them are living off welfare and breeding like rabbits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got to take exception with your equivalence between, &#8220;&#8230;to survive, or grow strong, become a pride leader or head giraffe,&#8230;&#8221; and &#8220;&#8230;get into a good school&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say getting into a good school has an inverse relationship with reproductive fitness.</p>
<p>Hence less and less of us are paying tax, while more and more of them are living off welfare and breeding like rabbits.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493567</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 02:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493567</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That is part of it.  But mainly, the parent is weighing taking resources from a 0.5 and giving it to a 0.5 while offspring N is weighing resources being taken from a 1.0 (self) and being given to a 0.5 (or 0.25).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is part of it.  But mainly, the parent is weighing taking resources from a 0.5 and giving it to a 0.5 while offspring N is weighing resources being taken from a 1.0 (self) and being given to a 0.5 (or 0.25).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tamara		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493566</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tamara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 01:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493566</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And suddenly I realize that I made a big assumption:  That child N and child N+1 always have both parents in common.  My bad there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And suddenly I realize that I made a big assumption:  That child N and child N+1 always have both parents in common.  My bad there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tamara		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tamara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 01:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aren&#039;t child N and Child N+1 on average related to each other as much as they are to either parent?  They share half of their DNA with each parent (plus or minus a little due to sex chromosomes) and an average of half of their DNA with each sibling, sometimes considerably less, sometimes considerably more.  Unless I misread my Dawkins...it&#039;s been a very long time, I&#039;m embarrassed to say.

So, a test of this theory could be to see if, under controlled circumstances, children with younger siblings engage in more risky behavior than do only children of the same age.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t child N and Child N+1 on average related to each other as much as they are to either parent?  They share half of their DNA with each parent (plus or minus a little due to sex chromosomes) and an average of half of their DNA with each sibling, sometimes considerably less, sometimes considerably more.  Unless I misread my Dawkins&#8230;it&#8217;s been a very long time, I&#8217;m embarrassed to say.</p>
<p>So, a test of this theory could be to see if, under controlled circumstances, children with younger siblings engage in more risky behavior than do only children of the same age.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493564</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493564</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Trivers&#039; Parent Offspring Conflict theory sparked an entire generation of research so there are actually hundreds of case studies among various animals.  The problem is that life in general is so complex that it remains hard to sort out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trivers&#8217; Parent Offspring Conflict theory sparked an entire generation of research so there are actually hundreds of case studies among various animals.  The problem is that life in general is so complex that it remains hard to sort out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Daniel J. Andrews		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/06/28/how-old-does-a-toddler-have-to-be-before-it-stops-trying-to-kill-itself/#comment-493563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel J. Andrews]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 23:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/?p=12575#comment-493563</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;So, why are toddlers always trying to kill themselves and when does it stop?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It stops when toddlers are no longer toddlers. The propensity to stick dangerous things into their mouths may continue well into adulthood although it seems to reach a peak during the 18-24 year old stage (think alcohol consumption). After that, it tends to decline because 1) they&#039;ve been successful in killing themselves, and 2) they mature and realize pickling themselves on a regular basis isn&#039;t really all that fun, never was, and the only reason they did it was because everyone else they associated with was also doing it---and tv commercials, university culture all make it seem like the thing to do. And all the sheeple said &quot;baahhhhhhh&quot;.

Snark aside, interesting ideas by Trivers--not sure how well they play out aside from selected examples. Still, intriguing possibilities there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So, why are toddlers always trying to kill themselves and when does it stop?</p></blockquote>
<p>It stops when toddlers are no longer toddlers. The propensity to stick dangerous things into their mouths may continue well into adulthood although it seems to reach a peak during the 18-24 year old stage (think alcohol consumption). After that, it tends to decline because 1) they&#8217;ve been successful in killing themselves, and 2) they mature and realize pickling themselves on a regular basis isn&#8217;t really all that fun, never was, and the only reason they did it was because everyone else they associated with was also doing it&#8212;and tv commercials, university culture all make it seem like the thing to do. And all the sheeple said &#8220;baahhhhhhh&#8221;.</p>
<p>Snark aside, interesting ideas by Trivers&#8211;not sure how well they play out aside from selected examples. Still, intriguing possibilities there.</p>
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