Comments on: DJ Grothe vs. Tony Stark

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:20:33 +0000

Nameshame: The queen? Who is that?

Iamcur: “radical gender politics”? What is that?

By: Iamcuriousblue

Iamcuriousblue — Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:03:39 +0000

What Nameshame said. I don’t think Grothe has anything to apologize for, I think the people who are after him are basically upset with him for political reasons (basically, he doesn’t share their radical gender politics), and I think those people won’t settle for anything less than a pound of flesh. Grothe should not give it to them. Of course, that said, I do think his apology was a magnanimous gesture, and I think there are things he and JREF can do to make TAM a better environment, including a reasonable anti-harassment policy. I do not think this means adopting the extreme “Geek Feminist” antiharassment policy wholesale however, although I’m sure his critics will try to put pressure on JREF for this and a whole pile of other appeasements. I hope Grothe negotiates, but doesn’t cave.

By: nameshame

nameshame — Thu, 07 Jun 2012 14:06:01 +0000

Greg Laden claims that “DJ demonstrated a fixable lack of understanding of the situation,” but I disagree. Rather, his replies were constantly being twister by others, and he was being viciously attacked for daring to question the Queen’s claims and demands.

Rebecca isn’t doing anything? Oh, but she is. She is constantly using various tricks to avoid having to respond directly to arguments that undermine her position.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:23:12 +0000

Somite, we who have come up with “thing” are legion and our ideas are as well. The point of this post is that DJ demonstrated a fixable lack of understanding of the situation, and he followed this with a demonstration of the unwillingness or inability to fix that. That is where consultants come in handy.

dan-o, sorry to disappoint you, but the freethought community is too fractious to collapse from any single event.

… in other words… hey, wait a minute …

what Rebecca is doing

Rebecca isn’t doing anything. Men and boys trolling the conferences, reddit, elsewhere are doing things, and Rebecca is one of the legion who are reacting.

It is interesting that DJ has tried to shift the arena for the conversation to being one between him and Rebecca. Nice strategy. Won’t work, though.

By: itzac

itzac — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:12:31 +0000

dan-o, sorry to disappoint you, but the freethought community is too fractious to collapse from any single event.

I think DJ’s apology was about as good as it could have been. He might have said, “I shouldn’t have blamed…” instead of “I didn’t mean to blame…” but he’s human, and that’s a pretty fine hair to split.

Frankly, I think DJ put his finger on a predictable side-effect of what Rebecca is doing. He chose probably the worst possible manner in which to address it, and that’s what I think he needed to apologize for, and that’s what he’s done.

By: Somite

Somite — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:15:51 +0000

My first LOL moment in this conversation. You can’t come up with anything yourself so you suggest, of all things, hiring a consultant? What a joke.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1991-06-30/

By: dan-o

dan-o — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:16:15 +0000

I enjoyed the graphics Greg. Great comparison.

By: nameshame

nameshame — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:14:34 +0000

This is getting way out of hand. DJ had nothing to apologize for as far as I can tell.

He should stop giving these people attention. He is wasting his time because they are not interested in reasonable, rational discussions on the topic. They have their agenda, and they are going to push it to the end.

And it won’t even end if DJ steps down.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 03:57:15 +0000

I can’t believe no one has commented on my amazing graphic!!!

By: dano

dano — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 02:42:56 +0000

Walker wins!