Comments on: Does the Internet need an HR Department? https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/ Wed, 16 May 2012 14:08:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.6 By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493015 Wed, 16 May 2012 14:08:04 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493015 I guess the point I’m making here is that these things are out there, but it is on the internet where they are drawn out for others to see who may not have known or may not have had that may opportunities. That, plus, there are modulating effects in real life… those middle school students making the misogynistic remarks in meatspace are not doing it everywhere. They are doing it in their own milieu. And on the internet.

In meat space, over time, a reasonable proportion of folk “grow out of it” (to varying degrees) which is partly a function of knowing when to shut up. On the internet, there no need for that. Even if you are shunned from one or more internet community, you didn’t really need them anyway, and can easily move to a new location until you get tossed out of there.

]]> By: Calli Arcale https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493014 Wed, 16 May 2012 13:27:05 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493014 Greg — I didn’t read that thread myself, but yes, that sort of thing can be encountered in meatspace as well, although it varies depending on geographic location, local culture, and age. And it’s not just men and boys. When I was in junior high, some of the worst misogynistic insults came from other girls.

]]> By: Anthony https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493013 Mon, 14 May 2012 17:18:30 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493013 I didn’t mean to imply that there is no problem, or that it could be solved with a reduction in anonymity. Only that as members of an anonymous community gain a degree of accountability, the community as a whole might begin to mirror meatspace society. I found the Magic articles encouraging, as I see a that as an example of a community beginning, or at least trying to regulate its own behavior. They are aided by that fact that Wizards of the Coast has an interest in a potential female market, and the fact that pro Magic players have both names and faces. Having real people speak out against or be punished for misogynistic behavior goes a long way toward conveying that such behavior is unacceptable. I think self-regulation is more difficult in other communities, such as online gaming or blogging where trolls have a greater ability to simply use a different pseudonym, but I don’t know how outside regulation would be possible without compromising that anonymity.

I had always assumed that the goal was to reduce the likelihood that an individual would form a misogynistic opinion, or, failing that, reduce the likelihood that that opinion would be voiced. I would be interested to read more about your work in actually changing people’s minds if you have it around somewhere.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493012 Mon, 14 May 2012 14:07:52 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493012 Rose, I take it you read the thread. Do you encounter that in real life?

]]> By: Rose M. Welch https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493011 Mon, 14 May 2012 13:39:53 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493011 “…she was immediately subjected to intense verbal sexual assault by reddit readers who aptly demonstrated how awful it can be when boys and young men are left to say and do what they want without the social control of anyone knowing who they are.”

You think that real boys and men don’t say these things to people that they know in real life? The only difference here is volume.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493010 Mon, 14 May 2012 12:30:48 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493010 April, I was kinda hoping that true human nature was that which emerges from base emotion and reaction like we see with the on-line MRA’s and the sociocultural control!

Anyway…

1. meatspace
Deriving from cyberpunk novels, meatspace is the world outside of the ‘net– that is to say, the real world, where you do things with your body rather than with your keyboard.

]]> By: April https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493009 Mon, 14 May 2012 12:11:08 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493009 “meatspace” I think you meant “metaspace”.

I like the honesty of the internet. It gives you a glimpse into true human nature. People tend to take off their masks and show what is really inside. It is often ugly, but it is the truth and it is good to know the truth.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493008 Mon, 14 May 2012 11:27:54 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493008 Stephanie, this reminds me: We need to start planning the first annual celebration of Rebeccapocalypse! I suggest waiting for a few days after the start of the event, when Rebecca is in town.

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493007 Mon, 14 May 2012 11:25:53 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493007 Marnie:
Even the average MRA’s manage to go through their day to day life and interact with women with some semblance of civility.

The most extreme MRA commenter I know of is actually someone I know personally and have known for some time. It is a shame that his over the top extremely hateful comments many directed at me or friends or colleagues have caused our friendship to evaporate. But I can say that in real life there are few people more polite and considerate to other people than he, applied to all people.

On the one hand, I think this can push people who were largely ambivalent towards accepting extremist views, but at the same time, when really terrible and hateful views are expressed openly, it also gives people on the other side a chance to rebut those views.

Exactly! Plus, some “extreme” views eventually expressed are valid and important, of course.

]]> By: Stephanie Z https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493006 Mon, 14 May 2012 10:38:26 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/05/13/does-the-internet-need-an-hr-d/#comment-493006 Tuvok, if you wanted to be able to play the false equivalence card, you really should have planned ahead. Even if there had been any sort of parity between how women who agreed with Rebecca and those who didn’t were treated (there wasn’t, which is why you use the vague term “bullying” here), you’ve been participating in a months-long, obsessive hate fest that has made the differences crystal clear for many who couldn’t see them to begin with.

Congratulations on that, by the way. People are notoriously resistant to seeing that sort of treatment, treating it as cultural background noise, but you’ve help countless numbers of them figure it out.

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