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	<title>
	Comments on: Is Barack Obama &#8220;descended from polygamists&#8221;?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 22:56:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Trebuchet		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15318</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trebuchet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 22:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15318</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt; To me, “cult” is a term used by the religions that get to define themselves as mainstream through previous power grabs, cultural movements, or demographic changes use to define some other groups as bad.

A “cult” is “the other guys, when they are small in numbers*” … It is a term of oppression within the religious milieu. There is no valid definition that is not a tool of power.

Therefore, I have no problem calling them all cults.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Correct.  As it happens, I was just thinking about this while walking around behind the lawnmower.

I&#039;d say a cult becomes a &quot;religion&quot; when:
a) it gets a little older;
b) it gets a little larger; and
c) it gains some acceptance in general society as a result of a and b.

That said, the LDS shares some major characteristics with some of the generally accepted cults:
Invented out of whole cloth by a self-described prophet?  Check.
Truly bizarre beliefs and practices, compared to &quot;main-stream&quot; faiths?  Check.
Extracts the maximum amount of cash from the faithful?  Check.
Exerts undue control over the lives of the members?  Magic underwear, anyone?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p> To me, “cult” is a term used by the religions that get to define themselves as mainstream through previous power grabs, cultural movements, or demographic changes use to define some other groups as bad.</p>
<p>A “cult” is “the other guys, when they are small in numbers*” … It is a term of oppression within the religious milieu. There is no valid definition that is not a tool of power.</p>
<p>Therefore, I have no problem calling them all cults.</p></blockquote>
<p>Correct.  As it happens, I was just thinking about this while walking around behind the lawnmower.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say a cult becomes a &#8220;religion&#8221; when:<br />
a) it gets a little older;<br />
b) it gets a little larger; and<br />
c) it gains some acceptance in general society as a result of a and b.</p>
<p>That said, the LDS shares some major characteristics with some of the generally accepted cults:<br />
Invented out of whole cloth by a self-described prophet?  Check.<br />
Truly bizarre beliefs and practices, compared to &#8220;main-stream&#8221; faiths?  Check.<br />
Extracts the maximum amount of cash from the faithful?  Check.<br />
Exerts undue control over the lives of the members?  Magic underwear, anyone?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15317</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 21:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15317</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To me, &quot;cult&quot; is a term used by the religions that get to define themselves as mainstream through previous power grabs, cultural movements, or demographic changes use to define some other groups as bad.  

A &quot;cult&quot; is &quot;the other guys, when they are small in numbers*&quot; ... It is a term of oppression within the religious milieu.  There is no valid definition that is not a tool of power.  

Therefore, I have no problem calling them all cults.  

__________________
*except when they are really large in number.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, &#8220;cult&#8221; is a term used by the religions that get to define themselves as mainstream through previous power grabs, cultural movements, or demographic changes use to define some other groups as bad.  </p>
<p>A &#8220;cult&#8221; is &#8220;the other guys, when they are small in numbers*&#8221; &#8230; It is a term of oppression within the religious milieu.  There is no valid definition that is not a tool of power.  </p>
<p>Therefore, I have no problem calling them all cults.  </p>
<p>__________________<br />
*except when they are really large in number.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ottod		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15316</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ottod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 21:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15316</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not comfortable designating the LDS church a cult, unless the definition of cult is broad enough to include Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, etc.  People say things like, &quot;Mormonism is just weird!&quot;  I always think, &quot;Compared to what?&quot;  Seems to me that if you&#039;re willing to go along with immaculate conception, literal resurrection, healing by touch, and walking on water, nothing in Mormon belief should seem odd to you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not comfortable designating the LDS church a cult, unless the definition of cult is broad enough to include Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, etc.  People say things like, &#8220;Mormonism is just weird!&#8221;  I always think, &#8220;Compared to what?&#8221;  Seems to me that if you&#8217;re willing to go along with immaculate conception, literal resurrection, healing by touch, and walking on water, nothing in Mormon belief should seem odd to you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: baal		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[baal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 20:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Conflate, lie, flip strengths and weakness, point your finger at the opponent for what you have done...etc.   This winds up confusing the voters and it is the point.  Up is down and left is sideways.  Confused voters wind up voting randomly or effectively so i.e. 50%.


Then, you have all the churches say vote republican (yeah i know illegal but hardly stops them) and then wholesale bus the congregation to the poling place (or have them walk down the stairs as the case may be).  Throw in some illegal but also common voter caging, misdirecting robo-calls in minority districts (again illegal not that it stopped the (R) last pres election) and other related shenanigans (&#039;accidentally&#039; throwing democrats of the voter roles? hello Florida).

All this gets you +1.

Who now wins in this 50+1 world?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conflate, lie, flip strengths and weakness, point your finger at the opponent for what you have done&#8230;etc.   This winds up confusing the voters and it is the point.  Up is down and left is sideways.  Confused voters wind up voting randomly or effectively so i.e. 50%.</p>
<p>Then, you have all the churches say vote republican (yeah i know illegal but hardly stops them) and then wholesale bus the congregation to the poling place (or have them walk down the stairs as the case may be).  Throw in some illegal but also common voter caging, misdirecting robo-calls in minority districts (again illegal not that it stopped the (R) last pres election) and other related shenanigans (&#8216;accidentally&#8217; throwing democrats of the voter roles? hello Florida).</p>
<p>All this gets you +1.</p>
<p>Who now wins in this 50+1 world?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15314</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15314</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;unless you just want to categorize the LDS church as a cult.&lt;/em&gt;

That is totally my backup plan. 

And since I first read this as &quot;LSD&quot; instead of &quot;LDS&quot; it really works.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>unless you just want to categorize the LDS church as a cult.</em></p>
<p>That is totally my backup plan. </p>
<p>And since I first read this as &#8220;LSD&#8221; instead of &#8220;LDS&#8221; it really works.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kyleharris		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kyleharris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As an ex-mormon, now atheist and humanist I descend from polygamy on both sides of my family. So what? For either side to make this an issue in a campaign is just outright stupid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an ex-mormon, now atheist and humanist I descend from polygamy on both sides of my family. So what? For either side to make this an issue in a campaign is just outright stupid.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Abdul Alhazred		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15312</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abdul Alhazred]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15312</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The president&#039;s father had several wives, and was from a culture where that is normal.

Ho hum.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The president&#8217;s father had several wives, and was from a culture where that is normal.</p>
<p>Ho hum.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Trebuchet		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15311</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trebuchet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15311</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt; There are still(LDS-derived) polygamist groups — cults, if you will — in Mexico, mostly co-located in northern Mexico in the area colonized by Mormons at the end of the 19th century.&lt;/blockquote&gt;  

And in the USA and Canada, as well.

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt; The group that included Romney’s ancestors should probably not be considered a cult, unless you just want to categorize the LDS church as a cult.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Sounds fair to me.  I&#039;m quite on board with categorizing the LDS church as a cult.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p> There are still(LDS-derived) polygamist groups — cults, if you will — in Mexico, mostly co-located in northern Mexico in the area colonized by Mormons at the end of the 19th century.</p></blockquote>
<p>And in the USA and Canada, as well.</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p> The group that included Romney’s ancestors should probably not be considered a cult, unless you just want to categorize the LDS church as a cult.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sounds fair to me.  I&#8217;m quite on board with categorizing the LDS church as a cult.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ottod		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15310</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ottod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 18:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15310</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are still(LDS-derived) polygamist groups -- cults, if you will -- in Mexico, mostly co-located in northern Mexico in the area colonized by Mormons at the end of the 19th century.  The group that included Romney&#039;s ancestors should probably not be considered a cult, unless you just want to categorize the LDS church as a cult.  

The main group of Mormon colonists were those who thought they had a tacit dispensation to continue the practice of polygamy as well as those who accepted the church&#039;s new position on polygamy but were unwilling to have long-established families broken up by U. S. laws.  After about 1890 there were few &quot;new&quot; polygamists in the Mormon communities in Mexico, and as the children of the polygamists grew to adulthood, many migrated back to the U. S. and remained monogamous.

The polygamous splinter groups that are truly cults formed by those who disagreed with the church&#039;s new position on polygamy also found refuge in the wilds of northern Mexico and exist there today, protected largely by the same sort of isolation that allowed groups like the FLDS to maintain a presence on the Utah/Arizona border.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are still(LDS-derived) polygamist groups &#8212; cults, if you will &#8212; in Mexico, mostly co-located in northern Mexico in the area colonized by Mormons at the end of the 19th century.  The group that included Romney&#8217;s ancestors should probably not be considered a cult, unless you just want to categorize the LDS church as a cult.  </p>
<p>The main group of Mormon colonists were those who thought they had a tacit dispensation to continue the practice of polygamy as well as those who accepted the church&#8217;s new position on polygamy but were unwilling to have long-established families broken up by U. S. laws.  After about 1890 there were few &#8220;new&#8221; polygamists in the Mormon communities in Mexico, and as the children of the polygamists grew to adulthood, many migrated back to the U. S. and remained monogamous.</p>
<p>The polygamous splinter groups that are truly cults formed by those who disagreed with the church&#8217;s new position on polygamy also found refuge in the wilds of northern Mexico and exist there today, protected largely by the same sort of isolation that allowed groups like the FLDS to maintain a presence on the Utah/Arizona border.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tracey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/05/07/is-barack-obama-descended-from-polygamists/#comment-15309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tracey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 17:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=3269#comment-15309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While Barack Obama appears to not have been raised with religion, Mittens has made it a point to highlight his own--one that is unfriendly to women in its most benign, horrifically abusive in its polygamous form.  That&#039;s what he was raised in.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While Barack Obama appears to not have been raised with religion, Mittens has made it a point to highlight his own&#8211;one that is unfriendly to women in its most benign, horrifically abusive in its polygamous form.  That&#8217;s what he was raised in.</p>
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